From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[Shadenuat]

I don't like Drakewing's looks and I'm not interested in pewpewing people with an UGS. And I already have Lightning Greatsword to cosplay Gatsu.

You know what I don't like about UGS in Dark Souls? They're too goddamn slow.
It's fine that a larger sword should be slower than smaller sword, but let's just make a comparison here. Here's Claymore:

Spoiler

It is fairly long and thick sword, but for it's size it's incredibly quick. I'd say even a bit quicker than you could wield it irl, but let's forget irl - it is so quick, that in fact it easily matches long sword or bastard sword in it's moveset (except the stab). And it is a two-handed greatsword. It's so fast, that using smaller swords just isn't that important - since you get very quick moveset AND damage boost from GS family. And of course, ~180 degrees slashing attacks THAT ACTUALLY HIT WHERE ENEMY SHOULD BE NOT THE GROUND GODDAMIT--.. are excellent for both PvE and PvP.

Not let's look at Zwei:

Spoiler

It is a big goddamn sword. But just how much bigger it is than Claymore? Not much. If we take away the part between crossguard and blade itself, it's almost like a claymore. A bit thicker, a bit longer, but not that much. By the way, that part inbetween little horns and crossguard isn't sharpened. Because it was used to catch sword with second hand and do stabbing attacks and a few other cool attacks (like a staff). But while it was carefully modeled by developers, it never gets used in game.

But, barring irl and medievalfaggotry, should it really be so much slower than a GS? Suddenly a few inches longer blade turns into a giant club with silly pebble throwing animation, and hits land on the ground more than on enemy.
I hope FS will improve in that area (movesets) in next games by making every weapon at least use it's main features and have a few unique attacks, not just copy same "family" moveset. Because otherwise a weapon that is most biggah and has most damaG in a family wins over other weapons (like Defender's wins over Claymore for FTH, or Ruler's wins over everything).

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

It's sad that the only viable way to use giant weaponry in this game is the greataxe powerstance glitch that's getting patched monday. Otherwise you have to be a pro that plays unlocked and baits attacks all day.

 

[Kanedias]

In this game it's even worse....Lost Sinner Sword is smaller than a Black Dragon Greatsword.

I don't think the moveset of the Ultras are that bad in this game, the problem is that they have too low damage compared to greatsword and katanas.

P.S.: I hate the moveset of Pursuer's and Lost Sinner Sword.

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

I always facepalm when someone kills me by spamming the R2 greatsword stab. I always forget how nonsensical phantom range can be on greatswords.

 

[abija]

In this game it's even worse....Lost Sinner Sword is smaller than a Black Dragon Greatsword.

I don't think the moveset of the Ultras are that bad in this game, the problem is that they have too low damage compared to greatsword and katanas.

P.S.: I hate the moveset of Pursuer's and Lost Sinner Sword.

There's also the problem of faster weapons breaking poise just as easy so going for counters (while it would make sense in theory) doesn't work.
If it would require you to be pro (as someone said before) then it would be somewhat fine, false sense of accomplishment and all that. But it doesn't, it requires opponent to fuck up or get fucked by lag (which includes the case when you spin around so the netcode gets even dumber, is not a skilled move just cheap).

 

[Fockatar]

So are there good boss weapons? You see throne defender's everywhere sure but I'm not sure what else counts as worth the rare dragon bones.

Anyway so I started messing about with an int character a few days ago. Well, I made him pure dex and that got bored so I added some int. I'm not too into casting and sort of using it as a backup and it's going well. Since I can buff my magic black steel katana with magic weapon I'm guessing you can generally do that - although I can't cast sunlight blade on my throne defender main. Anyway, would it be possible therefore to turn my black knight halberd fire, abusing my int bonus to flame, and then using charcoal resin on that? I'm getting tired of the katana...

In general elemental builds seem more viable this time around.

 

[Shadenuat]

It's sad that the only viable way to use giant weaponry in this game is to be a

The delay between "powering up" and strike of Zweihander is almost 2 seconds (I can count to 2 before I hit). Meaning anyone can strike you right when you start animation and instantly stagger you - starting with Greatswords. And as Abija said, hits are so slow that even countering doesn't work.

Funny enough, Gatsu sword is a bit handier in that regard because it's two-handed strikes are vertical - they are quicker to land on an enemy, and following up strike is fast enough to stunlock. And 1-handed rolling attack is 360 degrees spin.
So while I thought that Zwei should have an advantage IN THEORY, it's hitboxes feel screwed up. The only advantage is the power stab.
Plus, Gatsu sword is naturally bigger, and probably has better reach and hitbox because of that. Not to mention B scaling in STR after infusion and about 100 more damage.
I wouldn't bitch about all this so much if not for a feeling of total helplessness I got while playing with Zwei. I didn't feel that bad when I was waving Greatsword around.

 

[Murk]

I was dicking around with dragon rider halberd and it seems to have some decent moves, and is very fast. The downside is that it's inherently magic scaling and I donno if I want to infuse it to magic (assuming I can) cuz my int is only 20. Hrmm, more testing needed =(

I feel like I'm back in the lab doing research again, "results inconclusive, more testing needed".

meanwhileInPoland both faith and int scale with fire BNS it almost seems like for every 2-4 points you get a boost to fire bns but I can't tell you the breakdown.

This guy, however, has some stats:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/20po1a/did_a_bit_of_testing_with_pyromancy_and_fire_bns/

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

So are there good boss weapons? You see throne defender's everywhere sure but I'm not sure what else counts as worth the rare dragon bones.

I'll try and give a quick overview of boss weapons I've found useful or seen in action broken down into arbitrary categories. Gotta help a brother who tried the Herculean labor of making pure Dex work their first time in DkS2.

PvE Big Hitters

Smelter Sword: Hits like a truck. A truck that explodes into flames on contact. Slow and cumbersome, but hits hard and has a very damaging special attack. The one-handed version of the special attack can actually become a two-move combo string provided you have enough stamina. Worth trying out if only because the Smelter Demon Soul doesn't translate into anything else.

Iron King Hammer: A greatclub with innate fire damage and an okay special attack. It doesn't hit as hard as the Smelter Sword, but it deals Striking damage which few foes have defenses against. Again, nothing else to really do with the Old Iron King Soul, so worth a try.

Butcher's Knife: Decent amount of Attack Rating, but the HP leeching effect that triggers with every hit can be useful in certain scenarios. HP attrition is a fairly uncommon worry in Souls games, but this weapon can often grant you a little extra health in the middle of a fight that might be the difference between death and being able to retreat. Niche, but interesting and the soul associated with this weapon has no other options.

Sacred Chime Hammer: Extremely damaging, and the two-handed R2 releases homing orbs of dark energy. The special has a strange range to it, but hits hard and adds a bit of depth to the weapon. Dark and Striking damage means that few foes will have resistances to this weapon. I've actually seen this put to use in PvP, though it takes a lot of skill to use at a decent level....skill that would likely be better put to use wielding a weapon more germane to player versus player action. However, the soul associated with this weapon trades for a buff Miracle that, while decent, costs a whopping four attunement slots. There's actually a choice associated with this one.

Curved Dragon Greatsword: Powerful, has a decent moveset, and a really good special attack that deals outstanding damage if both the blade itself and the energy wave connect with the opponent. The soul associated with this has zero other options, but it's quite well hidden.

Moonlight Greatsword: The Major League Gaming Sword got hit hard with the nerf bat, but still serve well in PvE play. The 100% magic damage (unless you infuse it to be Enchanted) is good for many enemies and it has a decent enough Attack Rating. Intelligence builds will probably want Crystal Soul Spear before this, whereas it would have been the other way around pre-patch.

Crypt Blacksword: I've seen this thing hit as hard or harder than the Sacred Chime Hammer while co-oping, but have never tested it myself. Stupidly huge Ultra-Greatsword.

PvP Goodstuff

Pursuer's Ultra Greatsword: This thing stunlocks PvP opposition quite well, but is apparently being patched, and thus will likely languish with the likes of the Giant Stone Axe, the Arced Sword, and the Dragonslayer Greatbow in the boring (and bad) boss weapon purgatory.

Chaos Blade: A katana that hits incredibly hard and has range better than any others of it's kind besides the Washing Pole. The only downside is that each successful hit on an opponent takes a measly 30 HP off of you. Trivial in most PvP matches and easily obviated in PvE with certain rings/items. Amazing weapon, probably worth forsaking the Flame Weapon spell (assuming you don't feel like grabbing two Old Witch Souls).

Watcher's/Defender's Shields: Defender's Shield is arguably the best Medium Shield in the game boasting an excellent Stability-to-Weight ratio and packing some great elemental damage blocking percentages. Watcher's Shield is a Small Shield with low weight, a few good elemental damage blocking percentages (lightning and dark), and 95% physical block.

Watcher's/Defender's Greatswords: Good innate magic/lightning damage that becomes even better when infused with the same element at McDuff's. These are two of the few weapons in the game that really gain a lot from stat scaling. The ability to self-buff is neat and saves attunement slots for other things. Defender's hits a bit harder, but Watcher's seems a bit faster with certain moves. Great weapons, although I was disappointed that Watcher's wasn't a rapier in the vein of Velka's in DkS1.

Ruler's Sword: Have a lot of souls? Want to deal a ton of damage because you like carrying around ~1M souls? Then this greatsword is for you. Decent enough weapon, if only because it has the greatsword moveset and deals a ton of damage.

Warped Sword: Boasts a high Attack Rating for a Curved Sword and it adds a special attack when wielded in some power stance combinations. Hilarity can ensue when the spin/flip attack is performed with something like a Washing Pole in the other hand. Apparently it can also allow other swords with special heavy attacks to retain them in power stances with the Warped Sword.

Thorned Greatsword: It's like a Defender's Greatsword that doesn't have a self-buff and has a reduced Attack Rating. But it has a very nice special attack that sends a lightning bolt at your opponent. The tracking on this bolt is surprisingly decent; it doesn't track well enough to inspire crazy rage videos, but can catch opponents off guard. The one-handed version comes out slower but has less recovery whereas the two-handed version comes out faster but recovers more slowly. And, like the Smelter Sword and Curved Dragon Greatsword, if you hit with the blade and the bolt, a ton of damage is inflicted.

Niche Stuff

Spotted Whip: Deals out poison extremely effectively, especially if infused, or power-stanced in a pair. When Bat Fog eats a nerf, this will probably be the best poison strategy in the meta. And, hey, whips are plain fun to use in DkS2; the moveset overhaul really benefited this class of weapons.

Spider's Silk: A long rapier that has a special attack that pierces shields. Decent damage, but probably not as good as something like an Espada Ropera or a Chaos Rapier.

Spider's Fang: This is an interesting weapon. It doesn't do a ton of damage, but it has a surprising amount of range. What really pushes this weapon is the webbing special attack. If the opponent is hit, they are slowed down, often going "down" a roll speed and losing mobility. The web tracks decently, but still requires timing, and the effect only lasts for around six seconds. Durability loss is also a serious concern, as 1/4 of the durability is consumed with each special attack use. It's these things that relegate it more to a niche weapon, as you can't use it with reckless abandon.

Bow of Want: Interesting bow with a lightning bolt special attack that can stun, but has difficult stat requirements for many builds. Seems more aimed towards hexers and mundane builds.

Chariot Lance: Probably worse than the Grand Lance for many builds, but it does have some minor advantages in range and the built-in bleed effect. Plus, you don't have to deal with getting the Grand Lance, a weapon that is almost as painful to get as the Pickaxe.

 

[Murk]

Pickaxe was such a pain in the ass; and it suuuuuucks. As slow as a great club with shit for range. Not sure why it's magical but I didn't use it past the 5 seconds I swung about in the spider-church area.

I think I am going to adapt a non magic/non infused build next. Maybe I'll rejigger my dex guy since I don't do shit with him anyway. I am liking the idea of switching weapons to fuck with opponents' counter-plans.

 

[Shadenuat]

Defender's Shield is arguably the best Medium Shield in the game

Dark Drakekeeper's has 72% all around and ~98 physical resist.

Bow of Want: Interesting bow with a lightning bolt special attack that can stun

Every shot takes 10 durability, so you only have ~6 shots.

 

[Murk]

It's also shit damage (the special attack). I made one without realizing it has that and am constantly accidentally doing said attack when pressing L1 to aim. It has good damage if your a faith/lightning build but I ended up defaulting to black hunter's bow because fuck that damn lightning attack.

But then I never use a bow in PVP so maybe the lightning attack is decent there? meh.

 

[Murk]

So uhh this new calibration. How about that WoG?

 

[praetor]

 

[Murk]

Can... can firebombs be deflect-parried?

TIME TO START OUR MLG DARK SOULS 2 BASEBALL TEAM BROS

 

[praetor]

 

[abija]

These movies would have some merit if the opponents could actually present some danger (either by being at least average in PvP or having 500+ lvl with decent items).
But then again, maybe this is the type of fun the game encourages, do some wackadoo build and get excited every 50th encounter when you win some. If they cared about fair matched fights they could have done something with the arena system.

Random rant: guy invades me with invisible avelyn + some spear, gets emo with gestures and stops fighting when I estus then leaves behind 300k souls... I could understand people demanding etiquette on summons or when they do low SL, but freaking 600 or 700 lvl invader?

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I just started this. I want to be a pure melee tank....and the game is kicking my ass. It's way harder than Dark Souls in the early going, just because it doesn't seem like there are as good weapons and armor right at the start (in DS1 I got a Black Knight sword drop in hour 3 and used it the whole game...so I'm beginning to see how lucky I was). Plus, the continued hollowing on death really hurts as it's like playing perpetually cursed in DS1. Also, melee seems way harder for the simple reason that in close quarters swords bouce off walls now, which is really fucking annoying as it means it's hard to use anything but jabs in narrow hallways.

It could also be that I've resolved not to use walkthroughs, so maybe I'm missing something awesome (I have found a good deal of secrets, though, just from reading in game notes).

I love the game anyway (or, perhaps, because of all this). I thought DS1 was way too easy, which was perhaps luck, but true. This is harder so far, but it's hooked me like an RPG hasn't in years.

 

[Elwro]

I'd say it's weird what you're saying about the difficulty; I found it easier. Have you found the morning star just after the tutorial? And already in Dark Souls 1 swords bounced off walls; that 1 hollow on the bridge before Undead Burg was trolling many people going in the direction of Firelink Shrine precisely for that reason...

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I don't remember swords being as sensitive to walls in DS1. They would connect with the wall, but it would never stop my swing like in DS2. No, I haven't found the morning star, like I said, no walkthroughs.

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

I've just started my farewell havelyn BoB duel marathon. Every win is followed by "No way", "That's me!" and "Decapitate" for extra scumbag. Good times.

 

[aris]

Dark Souls games aren't really difficult, the difficulty comes from the knowledge of the consequence of failure and fear of what is about to pop around the corner. It's difficult on a psychological level. Once you know everything about the game, and how and where everything comes, the game is a walk in the park.

DS2 has waaay better trash mob design though, that are much less predictable and smarter, and generally better designed encounters that rely much less on trying to kill you by making you fall off extremely narrow ledges.

 

[Kanedias]

Can... can firebombs be deflect-parried?

TIME TO START OUR MLG DARK SOULS 2 BASEBALL TEAM BROS

Firebombs and other thrown items can be deflected by hitting them in mid air with a swing, but it's quite hard to do. I assume it's possible in PvP as well but latency and such must make it near impossible.

 

[Shadenuat]

Changed my build. This is my God now:

Spoiler

no not the Bucket

Yeah. 250 build - 50 VGR (cap), 50 END (not like there's anything else to pump), 49 VIT (hard cap), 50 STR (for all weapons in game), 40 DEX (hard cap), 10 ATT (cleric base), 12 INT&FTH (for Black Knight weapons and some others), 30 ADP (105 AGL).
And no spells, but I could use flame weapon or chameleon if I really need to.

Why? I dunno, I think I just got bored. Lightning weapon, magic barrier... back to bonfire... all this unnecessary time I spend on buffing and looking how other people buff, and weapon then looks ugly, and since I have Avelyn I don't need pyro that much. Something in me just cried for simplicity, and I answered.

I don't get summoned now. Too much ganking and banal shit. I summon myself. Last time I even PvP'd with Ring of Binding. And it was perfectly fine. If they're gut, they win, but if I'm gut, I win. And I can summon people who are fun to PvP with. We wave tp each other after a few meetings. I like.

Funny enough I reached 15 mil souls, I'm probably getting so fucked lol.

Weapons, I changed a few. I replaced my greatswords with Mastodon Greatsword (A scaling in STR). The damage is massive. I also farmed 2 Drakekeeper's swords and upgraded them both to +10, so I could try dual-wielding. I also got Drakekeeper's UGS, fully upgraded it has A scaling in STR, but I did not upgrade it yet. It has same moveset as Zwei.
One weapon that looks kinda cool is Royal Dirk. I would like to have 2 of those but I'd have to go to NG++ to get another one. Sad. These daggers have p. nice damage and powerstancing gives them same choppy choppy moveset as lighter daggers.

 

[praetor]

DS2 has waaay better trash mob design though, that are much less predictable and smarter, and generally better designed encounters that rely much less on trying to kill you by making you fall off extremely narrow ledges.

hahaha, no. they're most certainly not smarter (they have pretty much the same AI, maaaybe here and there they'll rush you more often when you try to heal, but it's anecdotal "evidence". and they finally have a useful guard break move that they spam randomly, pleading for a backstab), there are more and more scumbagy ledges in the dark chasms than in DeS and DaS1 combined. we get it, you had a unique problem with gravity in DaS1 that iron flesh didn't help you with.

anyway, today i met possibly the tryhardest of tryhard builds so far in the NG arena (never encountered havelyns in NG arena):
gyrm greathelm, havel hands+feet, black witch robe, GMB, resonant weapon, profound still, grand lance and a greatsword (couldn't tell from the buff if it was ruler's or claymore, but i'm leaning towards the former): i could barely scratch him while every swing of his dealt like 1/3 of my HP (and he tried, unsuccessfully if i may add, to stunlock with the greatsword+lance combo) and then killed me with a scraps of life. lulz