From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[Shadenuat]

Yeah but many do it even without spells on, like guys with Washing poles.

As for orbs, I now often do an impolite trick - I roll into orbs when ppl buff or wave at me, then roll back, wait for them to buff weapon and then approach as I am attacking. Easy to pull off with dragonbros.

 

[Murk]

What's annoying about playing online, though, is that people purposely put messages right in front of invisible doors so you can't open them. If you want to open you have to exit the game and reload to see if the message will be gone. Some are just troll messages (i.e. there's no door there), but some are real and unopenable because if you click the wall it opens the message rather than the door. Of course, without the message I'd never know there was a door there at all as I'm not the sort to run around pressing on random walls in the hope they will open, but it's still kind of a annoying. I've even seen a few messages right on top of switches and summons, which means you have to toggle to open them.

Not really -- pressing the activate key will open the wall regardless of the message. Those cases where it says a hidden door but there's nothing there are just trolling.

At least, it always worked for me. Just walk to the edges and spam 'use'.

 

[praetor]

so apparently Avelyn reload is so high it's basically useless now, GRS got nerfed by ~600 dmg, abyss ring is useless (less than 10% boost in dmg), santier's (mundane) got a 70AR (!!!!!) reduction, can't wait to see the numbers on the other nerfs that probably also rendered said weapons/spells useless

just more confirmation that From sucks at balancing like... there's really no other company that sucks so much at it

 

[Murk]

I'm sortaaa glad GRS got hit. I fucking hate that spell =(

Bye bye syan's. It was a beautiful week. <3

I think I may have to hold off on updating tomorrow. I was going to try a deathless + no bonfire run (basically, dual avelyn blast all bosses) and if the nerf is super hard that may ruin ma plaaans.

 

[Kanedias]

I am extremely disappointed with this calibration, and I may either quit PvP entirely due to it or ditch the meta. I will have to think about it in a more rational way but right now I'm very upset.

10 faith GMB now lasts like 20 seconds.

i hope the "stats based duration of spells" affects this too. i really don't think another Second Chance is a good thing

It was another Second Chance not because of how easy it was to use it on a build, it was another Second Chance because of its effect and how much elemental damage there is in this game. It levelled the playing fields a bit for physical damage builds and lessened the overpowered damage of things like buffed chaos blades.

This buff is now just as essential, because its effect was not nerfed, but suddenly you need a lot of points in faith in order to use it.

You just need to invest way more stats into faith for it. This is From's way of destroying the 135/150 meta. You're way more underpowered against overlevellers now, and against other SL 150 builds, you're at a severe disadvantage if you're not a faith build.

A completely bullshit change, and bigger than people realize right now.

 

[praetor]

^yup, you're right. it's just bullshit after bullshit. i think Cowboy Moment was being to kind when he said there was an intern at From doing the balancing. i guess they're doing everything in their power to force that SM abomination on people because they're not men enough to admit it's one of the dumbest ideas ever

 

[Shadenuat]

so apparently Avelyn reload is so high it's basically useless now, GRS got nerfed by ~600 dmg, abyss ring is useless (less than 10% boost in dmg), santier's (mundane) got a 70AR (!!!!!) reduction

Sounds great.

Spoiler

 

[abija]

Wonder if they'll pull a carmack moment ("OMG playerbase too demanding I want games to be more like movies you play them once and leave them be!" - in retrospect about Q3A and before D3 launch).

 

[Kanedias]

This is just to pander to people that hated spices. I never did.

Don't misunderstand me, spices are a stupid system, but in the grand of scheme of things, the SM system, they were not that bad at all.

Why? Because there's no penalty for levelling, therefore spices are useless. I really don't know why people blamed spices when you can just go to the Giant Lord for a couple of minutes and achieve the same results by levelling up your stats.

I would have accepted a nerf to spices but only after they fixed this horrible SM system where I have to deal with SL 500+ scrubholes at SL 150. If at Sl 150 you fight people around your level, then yes, being able to use powerful buffs at 10 int/faith is a big deal, but otherwise, it is not, especially when stupid things like GMB exist.

Even if buffs were nerfed to the point where GMB is not "needed" anymore, 25% more elemental damage is still completely retarded. This buff should just not exist in the way it does.

It was a bit excessive how in Dark Souls 1 it completely negated magic damage, but at least it was super specialized and you could easily wait until it ran out (it didn't last that long). In this game it's just too useful against everything: infused weapons, buffs, spells in general, etc.

 

[Shadenuat]

Tried Pursuer's sword. Meh. Because first attack is always a vertical strike, this thing can be dodged just by moving around.
IMO, standard Greatsword > all other ultra-greatswords. It's versatility, size and reach really work in combat unlike other gimmicky swords.

 

[agentorange]

Tried pvping as the yellow king. Full Xanthouse, Chime of Want, Chaos Blade, Watcher's Shield.

Chime of Want in off-hand and use Resonant Weapon to buff Chaos Blade. Mostly bait people into attacking, blast them with Great Resonant Soul, if they roll out of the way of that dash charge/combo them with Chaos Blade. works ok. Good to have either Scraps of Life or Life Drain Patch, can use them in a tight space to buy you some time to heal, or set up a trap.

Edit:

Might try using Numbness in the future, as I tend to draw fairly often. Might give the slight edge to win.

 

[praetor]

This is just to pander to people that hated spices. I never did.

Don't misunderstand me, spices are a stupid system, but in the grand of scheme of things, the SM system, they were not that bad at all.

Why? Because there's no penalty for levelling, therefore spices are useless. I really don't know why people blamed spices when you can just go to the Giant Lord for a couple of minutes and achieve the same results by levelling up your stats.

I would have accepted a nerf to spices but only after they fixed this horrible SM system where I have to deal with SL 500+ scrubholes at SL 150. If at Sl 150 you fight people around your level, then yes, being able to use powerful buffs at 10 int/faith is a big deal, but otherwise, it is not, especially when stupid things like GMB exist.

Even if buffs were nerfed to the point where GMB is not "needed" anymore, 25% more elemental damage is still completely retarded. This buff should just not exist in the way it does.

It was a bit excessive how in Dark Souls 1 it completely negated magic damage, but at least it was super specialized and you could easily wait until it ran out (it didn't last that long). In this game it's just too useful against everything: infused weapons, buffs, spells in general, etc.

yeah, in retrospect, with the nerfs and the SM system, GMB is way, waaaay worse than Second Chance 'cause at least SC required very, very little investment

EDIT: so, people are reporting mundane avelyns do roughly 50% damage, Syan's 40-50 lower AR (at 20/40) and combos for only the first 2 2H hits, buffs at 10/10 last ~15secs (one reported RW @ 65/65 to last 75secs), RW damage is now almost the same as the other buffs (maybe 5% stronger), flame weapon seems to be nerfed by something like 40%

just wow. all hope that team B is at least a semi-competent developer: lost.

edit 2:
more data with numbers from reddit:

All testing was done on a char with 40/40 str/dex, and 50/50 int/faith. No rings equipped (except for abyss ring test). Done on bonfire intensity 10/11 hollows at the first bonfire in forest of the fallen gaints.

+10 Mundane Avelyn with lightning bolts; Prepatch: 834 over 3 bolts, Postpatch: 576 over 3 bolts. A 30% decrease in damage.

+10 Syans Halbard (no infuse) 2h light attack; Prepatch: 453, Postpatch: 390. A 14% decrease in damage.

+10 Mundane Santiers 2h light attack; Prepatch: 763 in first 3 hits, Postpatch: 593 in first 3 hits. A 21.5% decrease in damage.

Great Resonant Soul with +5 dark chime of want; Prepatch: 1062, Postpatch: 755 A 29%% decrease in damage.

Wrath of Gods with +5 lightning dragon chime; Prepatch: 1079, Post patch: 1025. A 5% decrease in damage.

+10 Dark Claymore 1h r1 test with Resonant Weapon; Unbuffed: 418, Prepatch: 653, Postpatch: 568. Extra buff damage dropped from 235 to 150. A 36% decrease in bonus damage. Due to rounding I'm speculating that the buff is now 50 + 30% just like SLB and CMW.

+10 Fire Claymore 1h r1 test with Flame Weapon; Unbuffed: 414, Prepatch: 561, Postpatch: 500. Extra buff damage dropped from 147 to 86. A 41% decrease in bonus damage. Flame weapon now clearly adds less damage than other weapon buffs, but does not require any stat investment.

Abyss Ring: Prepatch: buffed GRS from 1062 to 1274, a 16.6% increase. Postpatch: buffed GRS from 755 to 812, a 7% increase. Given that the test has enemy resists and the ring was previously a 20% boost, I speculate it's now 10%.

TL;DR: FROM MY DATA (take with grain of salt)

Avelyn ~30% nerf

Syans ~14% nerf

Santiers ~22% nerf

GRS ~29% nerf

WoG ~5% nerf

RW changed to roughly same increase as SLB/CMW/Dark Weapon. Use Dark Weapon if you want to buff a dark infused weapon.

Flame Weapon much less effective than other weapon buffs.

Abyss ring changed from 20% to ~7-10%

Edit Santiers and Syans stamina drain: I was able to get the same amount of swings in at 200 stamina (99 END, no rings) Prepatch and Postpatch. Dronelisk points out that the patch addressed the amount of hits taken to guardbreak a shield, not stamina drain from swinging the weapon.

Edit 2 After some testing, Dark weapon and Resonant Weapon now add the exact same amount of damage. Dark Weapon is now clearly better because it takes less attunement slots, has more casts, doesn't cost souls, and lasts longer, all for the same effect. RW should never be cast again.

Edit 3 At 50/50 int/faith, RW now lasts for approx 70 seconds, and Dark Weapon lasts approx 110 seconds.

 

[Shadenuat]

All sounds p. good. The problem with RW lies in game's design - because souls don't have any value and effect is the same, it would be easier to just remove that spell altogether. It never had a reason to exist, if you want to allow players be glass cannons, you might just make a spell that gives more damage if you are hollow; and more hollow you are, more damage it could do - that would fit with the theme of Hexes, that are about becoming closer to the Dark.

Of course all those balance issues can be fixed by allowing to PvP using only SL. Like making Arena of Blood use SL +-50 and no estuses.

Asking to fix all the shitty hitboxes and horrible netcode would be too much at this point so I'm not even going to bother bitching about it.

I'm getting so bored that I 3-shot some people while others 5-shot me, while I have to unload all my stamina twice to 10-12 shot them, that I might just start popping twinks and rushing NG, and then stay at AoB forever since you don't get any souls for PvPing there. Maybe I'll make NuGarret and Basozu cosplayers, one for DEX weapons, other for STR weapons.

 

[Murk]

So... WoG is still insta-kill if you don't have barrier up? Neat.

I don't suppose they tried to fix any of the 3 major glitches that the speedrunners are having a field day with?

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

I don't suppose they tried to fix any of the 3 major glitches that the speedrunners are having a field day with?

i suppose it comes with next big patch not just calibration.

i dont get bitching about nerfing avelyns. they are not supposed to be instakill but more like situational weapon. its not fucking unreal tournament ffs you cant shoot 12 bolts in less than 3 seconds anymore so choose your shots carefully

 

[praetor]

So... WoG is still insta-kill if you don't have barrier up? Neat.

I don't suppose they tried to fix any of the 3 major glitches that the speedrunners are having a field day with?

i guess that comes with patches, not calibrations, since it requires editing of actual code

which begs the question: if calibrations are so easy to implement and deploy that they're basically editing of xml/config files, why the fuck not assign an intern or lowly dev or a fucking secretary to be in constant communication with the community and deploy these things on a weekly/bi-weekly basis? i though this whole calibrations/patches dichotomy would mean a faster turnaround for simple balance patches, not slower. hell, since it shouldn't require any (or almost) source code editing, even someone at Namco could (should?) do it

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I'm mostly upset that obvious engine problems that significantly impact gameplay, like some mechanics working differently depending on framerate, aren't getting patched. Netcode will never be good, and hitboxes, while annoying, don't make that much of a difference when playing the game, and many of them are impractical to change at this point.

However, getting double durability loss at 60 FPS? Having a halved grace window for inputs when performing a guard break or jumping attack? Fix your broken shit, From.

So... WoG is still insta-kill if you don't have barrier up? Neat.

I don't suppose they tried to fix any of the 3 major glitches that the speedrunners are having a field day with?

i guess that comes with patches, not calibrations, since it requires editing of actual code

which begs the question: if calibrations are so easy to implement and deploy that they're basically editing of xml/config files, why the fuck not assign an intern or lowly dev or a fucking secretary to be in constant communication with the community and deploy these things on a weekly/bi-weekly basis? i though this whole calibrations/patches dichotomy would mean a faster turnaround for simple balance patches, not slower. hell, since it shouldn't require any (or almost) source code editing, even someone at Namco could (should?) do it

You know how From simply do their own thing without much regard to industry trends, feedback, or any kind of outside input? In many ways, this approach is what makes Souls great. However, it has downsides, and this is one of them. They're not used to listening.

 

[Shadenuat]

its not fucking unreal tournament ffs you cant shoot 12 bolts in less than 3 seconds anymore so choose your shots carefully

You can change weapons in melee oriented game as fast as in UT or Quake by the way. Just like in Quake you can throw somebody in the air with a rocket and finish with machine gun, in DS you can roll with a gatsu sword and get stabbed in the back, but fear not - just switch to monastery scim/parry dagger and flip it around with your ass - and
U WIN
master gaming league

Saying that DS is melee-based with all the spells and reloading crossbows would probably be stretching it too far, but it still bothers me, especially since game is supposedly about "giting gut".

Wtf should I git gut at? Parrying with a two-handed sword? Other people can just do it with scim/dagger/shield. Footwork? Because of hitboxes footwork matters very little in this game, you either roll (sometimes backstep) or you get hit.

Hnh. I'm ranting again...

 

[praetor]

Shadenuat
except now RW does the same damage as Dark Weapon, but costs souls, more slots, less casts, lasts shorter and has higher requirements. that's beyond stupid. there's literally no reason to use RW over DW. they should've kept the damage (or given it at least some other advantage over DW) but made the cost something else (like being cursed and then having curse build-up with each hit or whatever)

 

[Shadenuat]

I don't even like weapon buffs. I don't understand why anyone should go through infusion process and buffing to be competent in dealing damage. Elemental effects don't even have interesting mechanics behind them - fire does not set things on fire (unless it's a scripted event like in Gutter), lightning doesn't improve chance to stagger, or whatever. The only one that does something unique is poison/bleed. In most games if you cast spells you suffer some penalties in melee for that. In DS if you cast spells you cast spells and also do a fuckton of damag in melee that passes through armor and shields.

Game has bosses with huge healthpools, and high lethality, but you can use any weapon to beat them. PvP is also very lethal so buffs are just same +30%+50 with different coloring and a slight variation in damage depending on player's resistances. Unless it's Physical Resistance cause it's always the highest, so if you don't infuse, you're screwing yourself.

The whole "every class gets to be ultra damaging in melee, just pick your favorite stat" felt as a big, overcomplicated but shallow construct to me in DS1, and it feels the same in DS2 (now it's just not as obscure).

Sometimes system feels interesting to me, but more often I just wish I had more moves and stances in combat instead of all that stat-junk.

 

[praetor]

oh, i completely agree on that part. From should get an award for "least imaginative magic in a fantasy setting. ever". it's all just different colours of pew-pew and buffs with the rare difference in utility

 

[Hobo Elf]

Which is strange since Magic was fairly elaborate and cool in King's Field.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Still gonna use GRS since the casts are so fast.

EDIT: nvm Havelix laughs at it.

btw, I like how Dark Weapon is better than Resonant Weapon. Good going From.

Shadenuat
except now RW does the same damage as Dark Weapon, but costs souls, more slots, less casts, lasts shorter and has higher requirements. that's beyond stupid. there's literally no reason to use RW over DW. they should've kept the damage (or given it at least some other advantage over DW) but made the cost something else (like being cursed and then having curse build-up with each hit or whatever)

People will probably gravitate towards Sunlight Blade since lighting is the lowest stat for Havel Armor.

 

[praetor]

People will probably gravitate towards Sunlight Blade since lighting is the lowest stat for Havel Armor.

plus, as Kanedias pointed out, Faith builds will be at a distinct advantage with GMB. now there's pretty much no reason not to go Faith unless you want to gimp yourself.

welcome to the new, much worse than DaS1, meta. can't say i'm surprised

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I don't even like weapon buffs. I don't understand why anyone should go through infusion process and buffing to be competent in dealing damage. Elemental effects don't even have interesting mechanics behind them - fire does not set things on fire (unless it's a scripted event like in Gutter), lightning doesn't improve chance to stagger, or whatever. The only one that does something unique is poison/bleed. In most games if you cast spells you suffer some penalties in melee for that. In DS if you cast spells you cast spells and also do a fuckton of damag in melee that passes through armor and shields.

Game has bosses with huge healthpools, and high lethality, but you can use any weapon to beat them. PvP is also very lethal so buffs are just same +30%+50 with different coloring and a slight variation in damage depending on player's resistances. Unless it's Physical Resistance cause it's always the highest, so if you don't infuse, you're screwing yourself.

The whole "every class gets to be ultra damaging in melee, just pick your favorite stat" felt as a big, overcomplicated but shallow construct to me in DS1, and it feels the same in DS2 (now it's just not as obscure).

Sometimes system feels interesting to me, but more often I just wish I had more moves and stances in combat instead of all that stat-junk.

I think the main problem is just ranged damage being poorly integrated into the combat system. It'd be cool if picking up magic meant sacrificing raw damage and survivability for versatility and utility, kind of like being a Mystic Knight was in Dragon's Dogma. There's a lot of nice utility spells in the game already, they're simply eclipsed by all the overpowered pewpew like Lightning Spear or GRS.

Just get rid of pure mages, they don't add anything meaningful (aside from a way for terrible players to finish the game, which may be the point I suppose).