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From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

Quatlo

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Nov 15, 2013
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Its one of the most often brought up flaws of the game so I probably overreacted. Its never the ballance, broken poise, scaling, etc. Its always the same stuff that guy said.
The world, and reused assets.
I've felt that the world in Dark Souls 2 is even more damaged and scattered than in the other games, the areas are so disjointed from one another that I've figured that its the convention in the game, only instead of having a nexus you travel by tunnels. It had very strong Demon Souls vibe when playing through DaS2 so I never saw it as a flaw of the game, it was just different than the first DaS. Because you can teleport from the very beggining creating a complex labirynth of areas feels a bit unecessary. After getting the lordvessel in DaS1 you never travel by foot anymore and the levels after Anor Londo are connected linearily just the same as in DaS2

Reused assets and ideas were never brought up when reviewing DaS1 while the game had as much from Demon Souls as DaS2 reuses from DaS1, but suddenly using animations or enemy concepts is bad.
 

SuicideBunny

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Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Torment: Tides of Numenera
Its one of the most often brought up flaws of the game so I probably overreacted.
it's stupid, though, considering that it is just a more in your face continuation of the more subtle world inconsistencies from ds1.
 
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Article is pretty weak and the author fails to make salient critiques nor recognize what DkS2 excels in.

Far too many of the arguments rely on a rose-tinted view of the first Dark Souls. For instance, the author posits that DkS1 levels were some complicated, multi-faceted levels with a ton of depth whereas DkS2 levels are mostly linear with a few offshoots, wraparounds, and shortcuts. That statement is half-right; DkS2 level design pretty much follows that pattern to a tee. However, neither Demon's Souls nor Dark Souls 1 did anything that deviated significantly from that approach. And the author believes there is true freedom afforded by DkS1's world design. This is bull, because of constant instances of content gating; you have to ring the bells, go through Sens, and obtain/place the Lordvessel to access a majority of the later content (or be able to meaningfully interact with it; there's almost no reason to go into the Tomb of the Giants beforehand, as Rhea won't be there and you can't access Nito). There's never been any sort of seriously meaningful non-linearity in the Souls series; this isn't Metroid or anything.

A lot of critiques are small things made out to be far more important than they truly are. Case in point, the spiel about that darn Earthen Peak to Iron Keep transition. Yes, it's silly, a bit nonsensical, and it stands out...but how much does it really matter? Does this greatly impact the moment-to-moment experience playing the game, or is it merely a conversation piece to chatter about? A lot of the accolades given to DkS1 are sort of the inverse of this, which is to say they are "cool" things to notice in reflection, or talk about, yet have little to no gameplay function. People always praise DkS1 for a sense of tension inspired by the relative scarcity of bonfires, of safety, or how the lack of warping could result in a player being marooned in a hostile locale, possibly cursed, struggling to escape...but how "real" where these scenarios? Did most "good" players ever experience them? I certainly didn't, and that means I find that sort of praise spurious, at best.

Then there are simply boneheaded complaints or downright incorrect assertions.

Claiming that Nakja is a ripoff of Quelaag is silly. Sure, they share superficial features, but the designs of the bosses, mechanically speaking, are quite different. Quelaag is a boss with few melee options who relies heavily on her chaos pyromancy to constrict the player's movement in the arena. The Chaos Witch with a amazing chest ahead can't move all that quickly and her slow pivot speed means she leans on a couple of explosion attacks to guard any attacks against her rear. Nakja has a lot more melee options than Quelaag and her magic lends to being attack-stacked with melee techniques...in fact, she makes very shrewd use of this ability. The Scorpioness is also faster, more mobile, has stingers that can be dismembered, and even has a special burrowing move she can utilize. Point is, despite visual similarities, the two boss fights are quite different under the hood.

Complaining about repeat bosses or bosses lifted from a previous title is silly as well. Twin Dragonriders aren't the most inventive boss, but I suppose the author must have had some momentary lapse of memory to forget Stray Demon and Demon Firesage, which were almost identical to one another. And I know the author claimed to have not played Demon's Souls (despite referencing Old Monk in things Dark Souls did to surprise players), but this complaint is quite ironic in that many Dark Souls bosses draw extremely heavily from Demon's Souls foes. The Gargoyles are quite similar to the Maneaters, Vanguard forms the basis of the Asylum/Stray/Firesage line, Pinwheel is a shoddy Fool's Idol ripoff, and Iron Golem is a (significantly) modified Tower Knight who happens to have a ring-out victory condition.

And for the kvetching about four ring slots...really? That comment strikes me as grasping at straws, a complaint solely added to pad on word count or somesuch. Four ring slots still affords for significant choices in one's loadout, as the number of rings useful to each build far exceeds four; there's a ton of rings that almost every character would really like including, but not limited to Life, Cloranthy, Royal Soldier, Third Dragon, Southern Ritual, Lingering Dragoncrest, Gower's, Old Sun, Thorns, Blades, Stone, Clear Bluestone, etc. And then there are build-specific rings like Old Leo, RTSR, Abyss Seal, Bracing Knuckle, Northern Ritual, and Knowledge/Prayer. And not to mention, wearing utility rings (be they PvE focused, Covenant-centered, or matchmaking modifers) is far less painful when it only occupies 25% of one's slots/choices as opposed to 50%.

All in all, this critique, like most writings against Dark Souls 2, struggles to be coherent because it has to uphold the silly notion that DkS1 was significantly different and executed much better. This couldn't be further from the truth. The Souls series has followed the same core design principles through all three iterations and has generally improved in each successive game.

I'd venture a guess that most of the negative reactions to DkS2 are attributable to "series fatigue".

The Souls games all share extremely similar mechanics from their DeS roots and there hasn't been a huge injection of new mechanics like, say, DMC1 to DMC3, which means veteran players don't have a lot to learn/explore in newer installments. They also have a very low skill-ceiling, which is to say that it's not terribly difficult to become proficient in handling one's character in the series and being able to perform most techniques. It's also important to note that much of the appeal of Souls games comes from a punishing level of difficulty and the thrill of exploring the unknown.

The previous statements sort of serve as premises for the argument I'm going to make, that the Souls series has diminishing returns to a wide swath of the playerbase. Veterans who mastered all the mechanics of Dark Souls 1 (and perhaps DeS) will find that much of their skill and knowledge are highly transferable to the sequel, eliminating the fun of figuring out a fresh, new system. And since the baseline difficulty of the game is balanced around new players, much of the content won't even serve as a speedbump. Players who already cut their teeth learning the importance of dodging from Vanguard or Asylum Demon won't have much use for Last Giant's lessons. In fact he, and much of the early content, will likely seem a bore.

I think the key to enjoying future Souls titles is to realize that the experience will never match your first as long as From continues to iterate upon the same formula (which seems extremely likely). The core of the games hasn't changed, but the players certainly have become a lot more versed in the mechanics; it's going to be very difficult to design a Souls game that can challenge veterans without being hopelessly difficult for newbies. From isn't likely to pull an Itagaki.
 

Murk

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It seems to be a general trend that when people critique ds2 versus ds1 they mostly focus on the PvE aspects. Fine enough, but all magic is lost after your 3rd playthrough and most Souls Games fans have many, many playthroughs under their belts.

I personally find the pvp issues far more problematic but I have harped about those (and will probably continue to harp about them) quite a few times already.

One thing that deserves praise is, without a doubt, the best enemy every made in any game ever. The Turtles. The Ironclad non-Knight enemy things. Best enemy ever (not sarcasm). I LOVE them. They are my bros who help me when invading, and when seeded, they become my army. So many times has a turtle helped me destroy a host who thought he was being clever. Just, the best.
 

Correct_Carlo

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I wanted to quit this game, but it pulled me back into NG+

Anyhow, I was wondering how to level. I've been playing a tank with the Black Knight Sword, Black Knight Halberd, and Mastadon Halberd (mostly for bosses resistant to fire).

I'm level 200+.

These are my stats:

Vig: 40
End: 41
Vit: 40
ATN: 5
Str: 50
ADP: 5
Int: 16
Fth: 40

I mostly use the Black Knight Sword, which has C Strength Scaling, E Dex, and C Fth

So what should I level next?

Should I level ATN or ADP at all? I wear Havel's armor, which gives me pretty high poise as it is, but ATN and ADP might be worth it for agility (with Rolls). Or ATN, to cast, but that would probably require high Int.

Or else Int, Dex, and Str might give me added damage to my weapons, but which would pay off the most?
 

Murk

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enjoy you're dark murakumo ho ho hooo

You wear havels and use black knight great sword? do you use it 1 handed?
 

Murk

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Jan 17, 2008
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Welp, 2 things.

1) I'm imagining you mostly just PvE and so the bottom comment doesn't apply, as it's meant for PvP.

2) Everytime you press R2 and do the poke + circle AOE swing, I want you to imagine the voice of Michael Clarke Duncan calling you a dickless asshat.

If you want serious advice, your build is pretty wonky. Adaptability gives you iframes which is a big deal for not taking damage during rolls, regardless of how 'far' you roll due to weight. Otherwise, elemental damage works on monsters but is gimped in PVP. As a general rule of thumb, STR scaling gives more damage than DEX (even if both have... say C/C scaling, str = more damage).
 

Correct_Carlo

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Welp, 2 things.

1) I'm imagining you mostly just PvE and so the bottom comment doesn't apply, as it's meant for PvP.

2) Everytime you press R2 and do the poke + circle AOE swing, I want you to imagine the voice of Michael Clarke Duncan calling you a dickless asshat.

If you want serious advice, your build is pretty wonky. Adaptability gives you iframes which is a big deal for not taking damage during rolls, regardless of how 'far' you roll due to weight. Otherwise, elemental damage works on monsters but is gimped in PVP. As a general rule of thumb, STR scaling gives more damage than DEX (even if both have... say C/C scaling, str = more damage).


I am a newb, and will admit to that with no shame. What do you mean by number 2, though? Is is better to use 2 handed? Or are you just implying it's cheap?

You have to speak English. I'm not an expert at this game or anything.
 

Murk

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Not cheap, just the most common tactic for any noob to use. Greatswords were super op cuz they instantly broke poise before the last patch -- they had 4 hit stunlock combos and all that jazz. Now they are 'fair' but most noobs do the usual shield turtling + r2 poke with a greatsword (usually rulers or defenders). My comment's not meant to be taken seriously. The last part I said I assume you understood.
 

Murk

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That build doesn't work so well in this game as physical defense isn't much, and poise is not at all how it used to be in ds1 (nearly any weapon 2handed can break poise in 1-2 hits, even if stacking poise).

I guess let me ask this, do you want to never 'run' and just stand and slam people? if so, you more or less have it. I wouldn't suggest it for PVP at alll but yeah. If you want a more flexible melee build then I would say to raise ADP. Otherwise you have most of the 'grounds' covered.

ADP, in truth, mostly matters for Agility which grants the iframes. You get Agility mostly through ADP but also slightly from Attunement. Get agility to 110 so when you roll you can actually avoid taking damage (especially if you are near the 70% equip load.)

Is your faith so high for scaling or for spells? If it's purely for scaling, I'd suggest you skip elemental weapons and stick to physical. In PvE elemental stuff is fine and useful but against human enemies elemental damage suffers a lot compared to pure physical damage.

EDIT: If you want to be giant dad from before, the best way is this. Stack tons of poise armor (like havels; but don't be a scrub and get the Great Gyrm Helm /smugface). Cast Sacred Oath (gives attack and defense) and cast numb (lose vision but reduce all damage by 35%). Then, start swinging. Right now a lot of UGS got buffed to the point of viability, so something like zwei or Drake keeper UGS is doable. Or 1 hand the Gatsu Greatsword.
 

Correct_Carlo

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Faith is high for elemental weapons. I don't have enough atunement slots to cast. I never PVE unless I get invaded, anyway.

But what's a good strength sclaing physical weapon?

I have the mastadon Halberd, which has A scaling. BUt it's a bit slow and fragile. Are there any good swords?

I do have my Dex up to 26 just to use the Black Knight Halberd. Is that worth it, or should I dump Dex?

Also, how high to take Str before it's not worth it anymore?

(sorry for all the questions)
 

Murk

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Jan 17, 2008
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Mastodon Greatsword does TONS of damage for a regular greatsword, but doesn't have the r2 poke.

Any ultra greatsword.

If you want a fast str weapon then maces, clubs, and certain swords (broadsword, suns word, greatswords like mastodon GS). If you want slower, then great hammers or ultra greatswords.

Sun sword = a/a in both stats but has low base damage, it shines at higher levels.

Currently the red iron twinblade got buffed and does BEAST damage, is also p good in PvE. It's a pure STR weapon and scales at A. At my level with 99 str i get something like 550 AR with ring of blades +2. That's pretty damn good and you can easily do 1k of damage with two r1 attacks (when 2handing).

You can also try something like powerstancing maces or clubs, or try the Chariot Lance. Great STR scaling and does a fuckton of damage with it's r2 attack (careful you don't charge off a ledge). It is a boss weapon tho, so dragon bones n stuff.

Black Knight Halberd has beast damage output for PvE but it's sweet spot is annoying to hit with. If you don't hit with the actual 'halberd head' you do less damage by like 30%.

Str gives you benefits up to 99, but 40-50 is a good 'soft cap'. You can always raise it more if you keep leveling.

Keep some dex, of course, just to use different weapons. I would say not to redistribute the points but maybe not level it more unless you need it to meet weapon use pre-reqs.

As for your Faith... I think you'd benefit a lot from some attunement so you can use spells as well. Even if only something like heal or lightning bolt (remember, you can spice down spells). I personally don't like faith builds -- they are very overpowered in PvE tho. Lightning spear/great lightning spear absolutely SHREDS bosses but eh.

Also, fire benefits form both faith and int, as your fire BNS is basically 2 points of either or 1 point of each (int and faith).
 
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Murk

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btw word is that DLC will be available at 9am tuesday pdt.

EDIT: Nvm, it's out now.

https://twitter.com/JKartje/status/491490193292029952

also, stream http://www.twitch.tv/peeve

so he new thing is just to give shit lance movesets? fucking great hammer with lance moves that poisons you on use

new area definitely _seems_ big and intertwined (lots of vertical stuff). good atmosphere from what I can gather too. damn shame it wont be out till tomorrow

p.s - get yer poison resist gear going yo
 
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Cowboy Moment

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So there's a chance it's gonna be gud? I'm hesitant to throw down $25 for what is essentially three more areas, when the base game gave me like 15+ areas for $50. Doesn't seem like much of a value proposition.
 

StaticSpine

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
So there's a chance it's gonna be gud? I'm hesitant to throw down $25 for what is essentially three more areas, when the base game gave me like 15+ areas for $50. Doesn't seem like much of a value proposition.
Dude from Joystiq wrote it took 10 hours to complete the DLC, and he enjoyed it very much. And overall the reviews are very positive by far.
 

Murk

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I spent about 4 hours on it and so far I am enjoying it. It's 2 large areas that feel as if it's just one big area. Reminds me of a combination of Oolacile township and Tomb of giants (big, cavernous, very vertical). There's some puzzles n stuff, nothing too noggin' scratching but some stuff that'll trip people up. It also reminds me of the dungeons in Risen 1 (which is good). There's also a lot of looping around and quite a few elevators.

Also, some VERY trolly invasions and enemies. Stuff that'll fuck with people for sure. Mages are gonna hate it. Parry freaks and backstabbers will have some more fun.

Very upset the whip sword uses that godawful heide sword moveset. I really don't like the 'alt' movesets team b has given us (drangleic sword, heide/blue flame).

The areas are big, btw. Very big -- I am going to HATE pvping here, that's for damn sure.

Gonna spoiler this next part cuz it's about the first boss fight.

It's a havel, a katana using alva, and a great bow using... chick. The schtick? They do a fuckton of damage, have poise out the ass, and looooaaads of HP. Also, they move 2x as fast. Just for the fuck of it. Their attacks, their jumps, their everything is twice as fast. Bring the NPCs, you'll need their ridiculous tankiness. I just ran around backstabbing them with a mundane bandit knife, otherwise, spam spells up the ass. Maybe poison, if you can work it in.
 
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Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
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I spent about 4 hours on it and so far I am enjoying it. It's 2 large areas that feel as if it's just one big area. Reminds me of a combination of Oolacile township and Tomb of giants (big, cavernous, very vertical). There's some puzzles n stuff, nothing too noggin' scratching but some stuff that'll trip people up. It also reminds me of the dungeons in Risen 1 (which is good). There's also a lot of looping around and quite a few elevators.

Also, some VERY trolly invasions and enemies. Stuff that'll fuck with people for sure. Mages are gonna hate it. Parry freaks and backstabbers will have some more fun.

Very upset the whip sword uses that godawful heide sword moveset. I really don't like the 'alt' movesets team b has given us (drangleic sword, heide/blue flame).

The areas are big, btw. Very big -- I am going to HATE pvping here, that's for damn sure.

Gonna spoiler this next part cuz it's about the first boss fight.

It's a havel, a katana using alva, and a great bow using... chick. The schtick? They do a fuckton of damage, have poise out the ass, and looooaaads of HP. Also, they move 2x as fast. Just for the fuck of it. Their attacks, their jumps, their everything is twice as fast. Bring the NPCs, you'll need their ridiculous tankiness. I just ran around backstabbing them with a mundane bandit knife, otherwise, spam spells up the ass. Maybe poison, if you can work it in.
did you fight those ghost knights already? it took me a while to figure out and find their motherfucking
tombs
:x

also fuck you From Software for making
Jester Thomas
black phantom. I thought we were bros...fucker invaded, used "this one`s me" gesture and spammed every possible Pyromancy
 

dr. one

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..fucker invaded, used "this one`s me" gesture and spammed every possible Pyromancy
A fun encounter, he uses "mock" gesture if he wins :). Also, an NPC summon that survived a boss fight bowed before departure. Nice touches.

This DLC is good. It´s about the same amount of content as Artorias DLC and though I´d say it´s less interesting lore- and boss-wise, it comes with better level design and stuff to do between the bosses. The puzzles shake up the experience nicely.
I think the two main bosses are fine, just not particularly unique. I´d expect some complaints about the one who can summon adds, but personally I found it pretty neat, mainly because there are at least three types of those possible. The gank simulator encounter is quite crap offline (nice soundtrack though), but will probably be a fun event with player summons.

Hopefully From will keep this up with the other two DLCs (and step it up a bit when it comes to boss uniqueness).
 
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Joined
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Messages
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I'm playing offline at bonfire intensity 6 and man, this is so much better than most of DaS2. I don't think there's a single area in the main campaign that has level design this good. Exploring this place is actually engaging, unlike the endless linear corridors and elevators that fill the main game. Even the mostly lazy first boss fight was a nice change of pace from the usual slow-giant-armor-man thing. They really improved NPC invader AI for this too - you mostly can't just stunlock them for all of your stamina. They dodge like crazy and one dude was throwing lloyd talismans at me. The best npc invader part was when
jester thomas cast warmth mid fight

:thumbsup:
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
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Heh, it feels like they read all the complaints about linear levels and lack of verticality, and thought "Motherfuckers, you think you want verticality? We'll fucking show you verticality!".
 

Machocruz

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Hyperborea
The previous statements sort of serve as premises for the argument I'm going to make, that the Souls series has diminishing returns to a wide swath of the playerbase. Veterans who mastered all the mechanics of Dark Souls 1 (and perhaps DeS) will find that much of their skill and knowledge are highly transferable to the sequel, eliminating the fun of figuring out a fresh, new system. And since the baseline difficulty of the game is balanced around new players, much of the content won't even serve as a speedbump. Players who already cut their teeth learning the importance of dodging from Vanguard or Asylum Demon won't have much use for Last Giant's lessons. In fact he, and much of the early content, will likely seem a bore.

This is why I lost interest pretty fast in DS2. I'm looking at Bloodborne as refreshment within the same or similar template, with its claims to swifter, more offensive play and the addition of firearms. I hope there are some new mechanics in there. I'm also itching for a middle ground melee game which sits between the slower, spare play of the Souls games and the rocket-fueled, extravagant play of DMC3 and its ilk, and Bloodborne may be it from what we've heard so far.
 

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