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The Denuvo DRM Thread

Immortal

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No, you're missing the point here. The point is that DRM is at best of use for a limited amount of time, and at worst counter-productive, while piracy doesn't hurt the companies as much as they think it does (because if it did, everyone would be out of business already: the games that don't receive a day one crack, or at the VERY least a crack in the first month, can be counted on one hand, and every time it takes crackers significantly longer than a month to crack a game, it becomes big news because it is such a seldom thing).

Agreed.

Going on TPB and commenting on a torrent something like "hey guys it's the dev here, I'm just a small dev and need the money, if you like the game please buy, no hate towards you guys tho" is a lot more effective than DRM, because it actually does make some people pay for the game, while DRM makes some potential customers into pirates.

Forget Donations / Pity Purchases.. Most people won't even seed past 100%. I think you give them way too much credit.

I remember way back when Rifftrax was posting into TBP torrents begging for donations.. Several people said "oh I will donate, I just download this because I don't wanna synch the audio" Weeks Later in the same comments section Mike was saying how not a single donation popped up. (I can't find the link for this but I remember laughing my ass off at the time)

While I usually pirate (I probably pirate 90% of my games and buy 10%), there have been occasions when I was interested enough in a game to consider a day 1 purchase. There have been occasions when I actually did purchase a game on day one. But there have also been occasions where I didn't after reading what bullshit kind of DRM the game has, so the piratebay version gives me someting that is less of a hassle to install.

Shitty DRM drives customers away. Most games will be cracked in the first week. Hardcore pirates always pirate and don't buy. Some pirates buy if they like the game.

The logical conclusion is: DRM is a useless waste of your money, and piracy is a thing you should just ignore because it doesn't affect you as much as you think it does.

I am fully against DRM, You won't get an argument out of me.
I am just not delusional enough to believe that my pirating is helping companies make more money.
 
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spectre

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Again.. I'm a complete pirate.. I hate DRM, I hate monopolistic corporations like Microsoft, Adobe, 3DS and how they sell their software at completely unreasonable prices. Fuck that shit I ain't buying it.
But I don't hold illusions that my pirating is a compliment to the creators and that me telling my friends how great it is means they will generate sales.. they will probably pirate it too.
If we are talking about Adobe, let's say creative suite, they don't care if your friends pirate. Instead, they care for professionals will buy products for professional use (I believe there are authorities in most civilized councils that will fuck you up if you don't).
In the end it benefits them as more people use Photoshop, become familiar with it, and it becomes an industry standard. More power to them.
It's a totally different animal than games by the way.

And for the record, I am very butthurt about the new rampant policy of: you never own the software, you just rent it for a year.
What's worse, I've seen paying customers rationalize and defend this abomination.
I own CS4 BOX and will continue using it until they freaking violate their own ToS and prevent me from doing so.
 

Quigs

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Netflix is such a hassle to use. Useless categories, painfully limited search filter options, lacklustre selection outside US, the list goes on. Can't beat the buccaneers without making more than a token effort to be more convenient instead of less. If your business plan is that customers will choiose an inferior product out of the goodness of their hearts you're gonna have a bad time.

Entertainment throughout the year for the cost of a lunch a month. Works just fine for me chumbo.
Well good for you. I prefer the convenience of a good private tracker, but whatever floats your boat.

I feel like your arguments against Netflix can be more strongly applied to private trackers, with perhaps the exclusion of the "outside the US" one.
 

spectre

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And for the record, I am very butthurt about the new rampant policy of: you never own the software, you just rent it for a year.
Which companies use this policy?! Its just... weird. :?

MS Office 365, newest Adobe Creative Suites. Possibly more, but that's just the stuff I use.
And you can also see this shit-thinking trickling into game EULA (I think it started, or at least I notitced it, a few years back when they tried to fight used console game re-sales with that sort of reasoning)
As of now, it's not actually that bad, because (thankfully) they can write all sorts of shite in their EULAs, but state legislation is still prevalent if the matter is pressed.
 

Dreaad

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Deep in your subconscious mind spreading lies.
Actually speaking of consoles..... and I actually have no idea what I am talking about so correct if I'm wrong. But wouldn't it be possible for companies to release physical DRM these days? As in, if you want to play Bethesda's games you need to buy gadget x that acts as an activator key or something for all Beth games, like a special black box hard drive that has to be plugged into your pc.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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Like companies should all be thankful that you torrent shit

They should, though. Do you know why AAA games get away with more and more bullshit? Because everybody pirates them, that's why. Can you imagine how Metacritic user scores would look, if people voting there would actually pay full price instead of torrenting everything and giving 10/10 scores? It would be a bloodbath.

A lot of that Fallout 4 hype was created by people who stole the game. The people who actually bought it, voted it by far and large worst game of the franchise. But the pirates create the hype, and so its a commercial success.

Piracy is obviously stealing and nobody is arguing that. But If it ever becomes eradicated, I'm pretty sure the industry is gonna regret it eventually. Wthout piracy functioning as a sort of buffer zone for shitty products, what happens? Refunds. Lots of, lots of refunds. And that actually is a financial loss the studios will have to tank, as opposed to piracy, which doesn't really hurt anybody.
 

Celerity

Takes 1337 hours to realise it's shit.
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I think Metacritic is pretty fucking useless in general. Know who can vote there? Anyone. ANYONE. Including people that don't even have the game. Ever hear about Metabombing? It happens all the time, and it's where someone gets offended, sometimes for legitimate reasons and sometimes not and writes a fuckload of negative reviews. Nothing prevents anyone, including the makers of the game from doing the same with positive reviews.

Now on reviews that do matter, I agree with you. Hell, most professional reviewers do not actually buy the games they are reviewing. And as for shit like mass refunds, that's already happening with that Batman game.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
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Like companies should all be thankful that you torrent shit, this is atheist levels of egomania. :lol:

What? You can't keep your christardism out of any discussion or what?

Anyway, so, you have a famous author* who clearly said that piracy gave him more exposure and sales, but I suppose you know better than him.

Nobody is saying that anyone by himself is "helping" by pirating, but that overall the phenomenon of piracy can have that effect.

* And he's definitely not the only one. Not everybody is a retard like Stephen King who thinks borrowing books from the library is pirating.
 
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hajro

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Self-Ejected

an Administrator

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What? You can't keep your christardism out of any discussion or what?

When you're burning in hell I hope you remember the faces of those poor developers and musicians that you stole from. :(

You will burn in Jahannam for not believing in Allah. (And those poor developers too) :shittydog:
CONDUCTOR WE HAVE A PROBLEM HERE, THIS FELLOW IS BEING MUSLIM EXCLUSIVE :flamesaw:
o4xgxE1.jpg
 

Quigs

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No, you're missing the point here. The point is that DRM is at best of use for a limited amount of time, and at worst counter-productive.
The logical conclusion is: DRM is a useless waste of your money, and piracy is a thing you should just ignore because it doesn't affect you as much as you think it does.

I think you make logical sense from perhaps a viewpoint more narrow than it should be.

Yes, DRM can be a turnoff. The latest Windows is a great example of that. Offered for free, many still avoided it because of the increase in security (along with other intrusive issues).

What few pirate supporters will admit to however, is that pirating is going to be a pain in the ass for the average user, much in part thanks to piracy protection measures. Buying a product is easier than stealing it. Further, the notion that piracy doesn't equate to lost sales is illogical. If Pirate Steam existed, and you could either grab all of steams games for free with ease, few people would pay for games. As ease of piracy would lead to more lost sales, the inverse is logically true. Making piracy harder leads to increased sales.
 

hajro

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That doesnt include 3 things though:
1)Buyers that dont Buy games with DRM
2)Pirates that wont buy the game even if there is no pirated version
3)People who pirate a game to try it and then buy if its good.
 

Suchy

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In the last 6 months, maybe more, I paid for 4 games: Pillars of Eternity, GTA V, The Witcher 3 and Underrail - all deserving my cash. I don't even bother not removing games from an inventory, because pirating shit games doesn't make them any less shit.
 

Immortal

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That doesnt include 3 things though:
1)Buyers that dont Buy games with DRM
2)Pirates that wont buy the game even if there is no pirated version
3) "TryB4Buy" people who pirate a game to try it and then buy it if its good.

1) If Piracy didn't exist - there would be no DRM. Worthless argument, you created the issue you pretend to play the victim of.

2) They will buy the game once the cost matches their interest. If they truely did not want to play the game at all, they wouldn't download it.

3) TryB4Buy rarely leads to buy. Many pirates pretend to be customers when they aren't.
Most games on steam offer a demo - people still "TryB4Buy" on pirate bay.

Perfect example: Game Dev Studio

Average TryB4Buy Users:
(People playing a pirated version and doomed to fail mid-game)
steam.png


itruinsme.png




Piracy Helps Games Through Word Of Mouth:

1day.png
 
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Daedalos

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The Real Fanboy
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The TLDR of this thread:

If you pirate games, eventhough you can easily afford them, they don't have overly intrusive DRM, and they are very good (both by yours and others' standards), you're a massive fucking faggot.

If not, then pirate away, mateys !
 

Perkel

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Mar 28, 2014
Messages
16,222
GameDevStudio cries that they can't sell shit with all that piracy.

Meanwhile CDPR releases DRM free version of TW3 and it sells 2mln+ on PC and probably by now something like 4mln+ (last update was from start of fall way before christmas). When asked about piracy they say they are ok with this, that's how system works and quality of game decides if game will sell not amount of DRM behind your game.

Just see PS3/X360 era. Both consoles even now are almost hackfree and yet games sell mostly the same as they sold on PS2 which was wide open from almost start. FFX sold like 8mln+ while FF13 which had huge hype train sold like 6mln+ despite lack of piracy.

Valkyria Chronicles was port of PS3 game released almost 3 years later, announced like month before release and was cracked on day 1 and it sold apparently already 500k+
 

Immortal

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tumblr_l7921d5J701qbyk0a.jpg



Meanwhile CDPR releases DRM free version of TW3 and it sells 2mln+ on PC and probably by now something like 4mln+ (last update was from start of fall way before christmas). When asked about piracy they say they are ok with this, that's how system works and quality of game decides if game will sell not amount of DRM behind your game.


http://www.pcgamer.com/the-witcher-...ntifying-pirates-demand-money-from-thousands/

CD Projekt RED have sent legal notices demanding money from thousands of alleged pirates in Germany, with a threat of court action for anyone refusing to pay.

When The Witcher 2 was released earlier this year, its developers CD Projekt RED offered the game DRM-free via sister-company GOG.com. It was a smart move, and including retail copies with DRM included, The Witcher 2 sold over a million copies worldwide. When the DRM free version was announced, the other part of the story was that CDP RED would monitor torrent sites and pursue the pirates. TorrentFreak reported that they're now doing exactly that, using the same deeply unpopular tactic used in the past by music companies and games publishers.

We spoke to CD Projekt RED to find out why they've decided to pursue pirates in this way, and why they think they've found a way to successfully identify pirates with 100% accuracy and "are not worried about tracking the wrong people."

This method of pursuing alleged pirates became famous in 2008 after British law firm Davenport Lyons used the tactic on behalf of a number of clients, including Atari, the North American publishers of The Witcher 2. The problem is that the practice traditionally relies on an alleged pirates IP address, which are a poor way to track an individual person due to being dynamic, easily masked, and easily shared amongst multiple people over unsecured wifi, shared houses or public spaces.

CDP RED feel they've found a way, using a method developed by an external company.

"We're addressing only 100% confirmed piracy causes that are 100% possible to prove," said Michal Nowakowski, VP of Business Development for CD Project RED, via email. He wouldn't be drawn on the methods used, however. "We are not worried about tracking the wrong people. As this is the trade secret of the company working on this, I cannot share it. However, we investigated the subject before we decided on this move, and we aware of some past complications (the famous Davenport case). The method used here is targeting only 100% confirmed piracy cases. No innocent person was targeted with the letter so far. At least we have not received any information as of now which would indicate something like that."

When asked, CDP RED also refused to name the company whose services they were using, for fear of damaging that company's business. Which is deeply odd, as identification for doing your job isn't normally damaging. But he also claimed CDP RED weren't the only people using these methods. "For some reason the spotlight came down on CDP RED, however you should be aware this is something that about 95% of the games industry is actually doing. Pretty much all the major publishers and most of the independent developers."
 
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That doesnt include 3 things though:
Pirates that wont buy the game even if there is no pirated version

If a Pirate never pirates, why call him a pirate?

They're pirating very quietly, behind a tree falling in the woods where nobody can hear either of them.

Alternatively, I suspect that these guys:
barkhad-abdi.jpg

don't like paying for their entertainment, and would demand a rather more engaging form of 'crack' for their time.
 

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