The Errant Signal Thread

[Dexter]

I don't watch many of his videos, but I remember that the first time where I noticed it in a particularly negative, annoying and preachy way was at least as far back as his Dishonored video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRrM3RI0a4I#t=14m58s

 

[sexbad?]

thats the two worst things right now in gaming combined

 

[Infinitron]

Errant Signal wants your money:



http://www.patreon.com/errantsignal

 

[Infinitron]

Looks like he got all the money he'll ever need. And more.

1000 bucks a month ain't bad! Maybe Guido Henkel should have tried this.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

He just couldn't let go of how "offensive" and "sexist" DN3D is in that Quake video...

 

[sexbad?]

I find it bizarre that he found fall damage to be such a detractor in Quake 3.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I find it bizarre that he found fall damage to be such a detractor in Quake 3.

Eh, I can understand the sentiment, fall damage doesn't serve any useful purpose in Quake 3, aside from the occasional hilarity of a player cratering. Still, calling it "terrible design" is strange, considering that the grand majority of maps don't even have falls that would take off more than 5 hp, so it's close to a non-factor. And you can mod it out or turn off self-damage if it really bothers you.

This is a weird criticism especially given the context, he thinks it's bad because it penalizes the player for moving around the map, but Quake 3 has arguably the best movement physics and controls of any FPS ever.

In short, he made a stupid comment on something he has little understanding of, because he's a hipster and this is simply what they do.

 

[Grunker]

I find it bizarre that he found fall damage to be such a detractor in Quake 3.

I dunno, doesn't seem to me that his point was that it was a huge detraction, just that it was a really weird, off-putting design choice which fed into the way the game was a less flawless experience than Doom or Duke3D. In the end, he likes the game.

but Quake 3 has arguably the best movement physics and controls of any FPS ever.

Which he agreed with, and it was precisely in lieu of Quake's focus on movement that he questioned the choice to penalize movement.

In short, he made a stupid comment on something he has little understanding of, because he's a hipster and this is simply what they do.

hurrrrr

 

[sea]

Looks like he got all the money he'll ever need. And more.

Man, I don't make $1200 a month. Maybe it's time for me to start a "pay Eric money to post huge rants on RPG Codex" fund.

 

[Ninja Destroyer]

Mirror's Edge is a shooter with platform elements.
Doom isn't coherent.
Duke Nukem is a sexist, chauvinistic macho.



Bonus gif.

Spoiler

 

[DefJam101]

but Quake 3 has arguably the best movement physics and controls of any FPS ever.

Which he agreed with, and it was precisely in lieu of Quake's focus on movement that he questioned the choice to penalize movement.

The ten damage you take from a hard crater really doesn't discourage movement at all, it's there to punish sloppy movement and rocket jumps.

source: playing the game at length

ps: i havent watched the video yet because i'm at work

 

[Tehdagah]

Fall-damage also punishes people who try to abuse the jump-pads.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

but Quake 3 has arguably the best movement physics and controls of any FPS ever.

Which he agreed with, and it was precisely in lieu of Quake's focus on movement that he questioned the choice to penalize movement.

He called it "terrible design". Which is a strange phrase for something that honestly doesn't matter very much in actual competitive play. I said earlier that it's pointless, but on second thought, it's there so certain vertical segments of maps cannot be traversed so easily without cost. Most falls in Quake 3 maps are of the "5 hp" variety, but you occasionally get a larger one in a place where the "top" and the "bottom" are considered separate planes of action, and where falling is considered a failure at traversing the map. Simplest example I can think of is the area in DM6 with all the columns and the jump pad to the red armor - it's very clear that falling off the columns is supposed to be a failure, and not be trivial.

Whether it's a good idea to have this kind of map design in a game like Quake 3 is another matter, but given that DM6 is one of the most popular Quake maps ever, both for casual and competitive play, you will have some difficulty arguing that it's a bad map.

Of course, all of this is way beyond what little thought Campster gave the issue when he made his comment. Which was indeed ignorant. Because he's a hipster, and hipsters are ignorant. QED.

 

[Grunker]

Mirror's Edge is a shooter with platform elements.
Doom isn't coherent.
Duke Nukem is a sexist, chauvinistic macho.



Bonus gif.

Spoiler

Yeah, it's not like Campster has a major hard-on for Doom and Duke3D or anything... oh wait, his most positive video of anything is about Doom.

Because he's a hipster, and hipsters are ignorant. QED.

You're just saying that 'cause you're a hipster, and hipsters are ignorant. QED.

Campster is a bro - one of the few critics who has very little regard for BioShock: Infinite and The Last of Us and nothing but praise left over for some of the great shooters of old. If you want to hate him for remarking that fall damage in Quake was sort of weird, don't let me stop ya.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

You're just saying that 'cause you're a hipster, and hipsters are ignorant. QED.

I am not a hipster, you fucking hipster scum.

Campster is a bro - one of the few critics who has very little regard for BioShock: Infinite and The Last of Us and nothing but praise left over for some of the great shooters of old. If you want to hate him for remarking that fall damage in Quake was sort of weird, don't let me stop ya.

Eh, I like a lot of his videos, particularly the Doom and GTA4 ones, and I do agree that for a game critic, he has surprisingly good taste and insight. This doesn't exempt him from criticism when he does say something stupid though. I don't think the Quake 3 fall damage opinion is even that important, most likely an offhand remark he didn't give much thought to. You'll note that I initially commented on the DN3D thing, because it really did stand out to me while watching the video; it was like he felt he needed to temper any praise given to DN3D with criticism of its supposed sexism, as if there was an angry twitter mob of SJWs looking over his shoulder, looking for an opportunity to start a witchhunt. Just felt weird. And I say this as someone who completely agreed with his criticism of Duke Nukem Forever as sexist and unfunny.

He's also made some very silly videos, like the one on Greenlight.

 

[Grunker]

Campster is a bro - one of the few critics who has very little regard for BioShock: Infinite and The Last of Us and nothing but praise left over for some of the great shooters of old. If you want to hate him for remarking that fall damage in Quake was sort of weird, don't let me stop ya.

Eh, I like a lot of his videos, particularly the Doom and GTA4 ones, and I do agree that for a game critic, he has surprisingly good taste and insight. This doesn't exempt him from criticism when he does say something stupid though. I don't think the Quake 3 fall damage opinion is even that important, most likely an offhand remark he didn't give much thought to. You'll note that I initially commented on the DN3D thing, because it really did stand out to me while watching the video; it was like he felt he needed to temper any praise given to DN3D with criticism of its supposed sexism, as if there was an angry twitter mob of SJWs looking over his shoulder, looking for an opportunity to start a witchhunt. Just felt weird. And I say this as someone who completely agreed with his criticism of Duke Nukem Forever as sexist and unfunny.

He's also made some very silly videos, like the one on Greenlight.

Out of curiosity: what makes the Greenlight video silly?

I think his only real problem is his complete inability to speak in basic terms, even when his faux-academizing isn't really necessary to say what he wants to say. Like his comment on Tomb Raider's ludonarrative dissonance, which isn't really ludonarrative dissonance but just shitty writing.

You're just saying that 'cause you're a hipster, and hipsters are ignorant. QED.

I am not a hipster, you fucking hipster scum.

whatever you say, hipster

 

[Gozma]

I dislike it when he goes off on college application/music critic pseudo-insightful stuff like saying Quake is a journey of teen angst. It's some shit that is kinda cool to say and that isn't exactly wrong but putting it forward as The Interpretation instead of "an angle I thought of that's kinda cool, I want to share it with the internet" is an obnoxious critic habit.

Although then I'd also probably find it obnoxious if he put the same idea forward except couched it in a bunch of pussy qualifiers and "MAYBE IT'S JUST ME" bullshit too so whatever I'm an asshole

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Out of curiosity: what makes the Greenlight video silly?

It turns out I had confused the video with the following article about the indie scene being split along "classist" lines. That article is silly. The Greenlight video is merely wrong. I can elucidate if you want me to, although him holding up the AppStore as a good example to follow for Steam should be proof enough that there's something wrong with his whole argument.

 

[Grunker]

Out of curiosity: what makes the Greenlight video silly?

I can elucidate if you want me to

Please do

That article is silly.

Don't read his articles. His overt academization in the videos fills my quota.

 

[sea]

I find it bizarre that he found fall damage to be such a detractor in Quake 3.

The thing that he doesn't necessarily seem to understand is that fall damage is a cost for the use of movement in certain ways. Falling from heights is often a faster or more direct way to get where you want to go; fall damage balances itself by ensuring there is a small trade-off made (which could be significant if a player is, say, low on health).

Perhaps most importantly, fall damage discourages players from endlessly running from enemies when they are low on health for the purpose of denying kills, which is a very common tactic players use (up there with other crap like spawn camping) and does not really have a place in a competitive skill-based game.

You might as well complain "ammunition and power-ups are an antiquated throwback to Doom" while ignoring the fact that 95% of competitive gameplay in Quake 3 revolves around map control (which is basically movement and pickup denial). I doubt Camster is uninformed enough to espouse that opinion but the spirit of the complaint is the same - "it's a skill-based game, therefore anything that serves to discourage players from using skill-based mechanics and systems is bad", without recognizing that use of a mechanic that "punishes" certain skill use is in fact a skill with mechanical/systemic merit.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Please do

K.

The basic premise of his video is that, instead of introducing Greenlight, Valve should simply make Steam completely open, like Youtube or ebay. He accuses them of being more interested in arbitrarily curating their own library and maintaining the exclusivity of being able to sell one's game on Steam, as opposed to helping sell as many games as possible from the broadest possible group of developers. And also that Valve don't truly want indie games, aren't interested in furthering the medium, encouraging minority voices (and you claim he's not a hipster...) or promoting new and exciting gameplay mechanics and visual aesthetics. He does mention some problems with open platforms (like discoverability and an unending flood of shit), but dismisses them as "solved".

Well then, I ask, if the AppStore is such an amazing environment for indie developers, where creative gameplay systems thrive and minorities aren't oppressed by GabeN's totalitarian regime, then why the fuck can we not see any of these things there? As a matter of fact, more and more mobile game developers are complaining that it's impossible to earn any money in their industry unless you're a runaway hit like Angry Birds; and both iOS and Android have become home to some of the most exploitative F2P schemes ever, as the constant race to the bottom forbids developers from pricing their games above $0.99. So why does the reality of the AppStore conflict so much with Campster's beautiful vision of an open digital game store? Could it be possible that the problems are in fact, not at all "solved"?

Since this forms the base of his entire argument, I could probably stop here, but I wanted to address something else as well. Throughout the video he continues to accuse Valve of being control freaks and dictators without game developers' best interests at heart. Now, I'm not one to idolize GabeN or Steam, and Valve's ultimate purpose is obviously to grow and earn money. Still, through their decisions and business practices, I think they've shown themselves, to not only be rather open and not particularly controlling, but also surprisingly forward-thinking for a company of their size. The idea that they would purposefully limit access to their platform just because they like being control freaks stands contrary to how they act in general. So maybe, just maybe, they simply believe that opening Steam up completely would devalue it in the long run?

Besides, they've since proceeded to significantly increase the volume of games Greenlighted every month. There's even been complaints that they're allowing too much and fears of Steam being flooded by too many indie games.

 

[Infinitron]

TRWTF is that Grunker overlooks this guy's flaws while exploding with butthurt over MrBTongue who actually talks about things we care about here and arrives at conclusions we generally agree with

 

[Cowboy Moment]

TRWTF is that Grunker overlooks this guy's flaws while exploding with butthurt over MrBTongue who actually talks about things we care about here and arrives at conclusions we generally agree with

It's because he's a hipster, and hipsters always stick together.

 

[Grunker]

Stuff

Makes sense. I never really thought too much about his Greenlight video, since I don't give much a fuck, because I don't play many indie games. I don't disagree with anything in your post, except maybe that the comparison to AppStore doesn't make much sense to me. The AppStore was never an outlet for PC video games, regardless of scope. I think it's a fallacy to say that Steam would be come anything like it if they became open.

I know shit about shit when it comes to game monetization platforms though, and the rest of your argument makes sense to me.

TRWTF is that Grunker overlooks this guy's flaws while exploding with butthurt over MrBTongue who actually talks about things we care about here and arrives at conclusions we generally agree with

It's because he's a hipster, and hipsters always stick together.

I'm a hipster now? Shows you what a fucking empty phrase it is. It's just some label you stick on faggots you disagree with. The only two indie games I really played this year were Papers, Please (which is fucking brilliant), Gone Home (which was one of my worst gaming experiences in 2013, I was bored outta my skull) and The Stanley Parable (which was overrated as fuck, and frankly pretty inane in my opinion).

Hipster is a empty punching back you can throw some punches at when you have no relevant arguments or any case to build on.

TRWTF is that Grunker overlooks this guy's flaws while exploding with butthurt over MrBTongue who actually talks about things we care about here and arrives at conclusions we generally agree with

Oooooh yeeeeah, I forgot how the Codex agrees with MrBTongue about how Mass Effect is the best thing ever (the modern Odyssey in fact) and how New Vegas fails at C&C. You know, I don't "defend" anyone by virtue of their persona, I respond to arguments. Errant Signal has a ton of great videos and some I disagree with (The Stanley Parable, Politics, Gone Home, That's No Game and now Steam Greenlight), just like MrBTongue has some good ones (like A Tale of Two Companies) but mostly makes pretty bad, self-invented arguments.

Also, how is this:

Don't read his articles. His overt academization in the videos fills my quota.

"overlooking flaws" exactly? Because I voice my disagreement with a detail in a video about Quake, it means I "overlooks this guys flaws"?

 

[DeepOcean]

Common, the objective of Duke Nukem was to parody those dumb action movies of the 80's for FUN. There was no intention to say anything relevant about women or sexism or any shit like that. There wasn't any message of "You should totally treat all women like hookers.", I really didn't understood the relevance of his comments on Duke Nukem. It looked like he saw some boobies and gone on a pointless critique of sexism on a game that is a parody of the 80's action heroes.

Quake and teen angsts? Well, I aimed at monsters, tried not to die, exploded the monsters and the the monsters died, the end. I really didn't thought on any teen angst at the time. I had fun and that was the only thing I cared. If you changed Quake art style to any other, it won't make any difference to me. I played as a decent FPS of the time and that was about it. Quake is a collection of mechanics and aesthetics (as he said) that don't have much to do with each other, the soundtrack wasn't any different, they just used what was popular at the time. His idea of teen angst and Quake is a nice little observation but making a whole video about it as if it was a dominant theme of the game is just going a little too far.

In Quake, you shoot monsters, monsters die and that is about it, nothing was intended to make sense. I really think his observations are a little off the mark this time. They aren't totally wrong but are way less important than he thinks they are, go watch Super Bunny Hop on youtube and you will see someone that really understands of what the shooters of the time were about. They were about rhythm and movement, the way the enemies fire, the way you fire your guns and the level design all reflect that. Talking about aesthetics on those games is really be superficial as the developers at the time just used random shit they had on their mind at the time (what actually created games full of personality).