TBS The Fall From Heaven Thread [Civ 4 mod] - 2016 Edition™ - 2022 Update!

[RK47]

It's a great mod. One that I wish they can somehow replicate in Civ V

 

[murloc_gypsy]

Master of Mana's answer is "FfH was a great start. But when it comes to implementing medieval fantasy mechanics in Civ4 we could do so much more!". Notice that by "more" I actually mean "deeper" rather than "more units, religions, civics etc". Wildmana/Master of Mana boasts a superior magic system and stronger RPG elements. The Xtended version by esvath also features BEAUTIFUL new unit models. The difference between AoE and MoM is that AoE makes the game BIGGER, but it's more of the same while MoM created something almost entirely new.

This one actually sounds more up my alley. But does it also suffer from the same issues :

Three glaring issues remained: the AI doesn't know how to play the game, the numbers look really weird and the game lacks general polishing.

or is it more polished?

 

[Rahdulan]

Dug up from archives of somewhere, probably Reddit, how accurate is this summary when it comes to FfH2 mods-mods-mods? Or just roll vanilla mod?

Alright, I'll take a stab at it. Haven't played all of them, and haven't played any in a year(ish?), but let's see what I can do.

Fall Further (FF)
* Takes vanilla FFH2 and adds a few more civs and things. Not many new mechanics, and makes an attempt to fit the new civs in with existing lore, though not always successful.
* I only played a bit of this one, early on. It's pretty decent if what you're wanting is just "More FFH2", and isn't a bad place to start, either. Nothing really outstanding about it, in my memory.

Rise From Erebus (RiFE)
* A Modmodmod of FF, it adds even more new civs and mechanics. Attempts to be modular, but the launcher is somewhat buggy and the game often has issues if you add or remove modules.
* There's a lot going on in this mod, and it can take a while to wrap your head around all the new mechanics. Plays somewhat differently from 'vanilla' FFH2. One of the major new mechanics, off the top of my head, is that forts exert cultural control, slowly growing into improvements much like Civ5's citadels, and always have a free "Fort Commander" that slowly levels up and gets more powerful as time goes on.
* Development slowly dwindled, and now has a further fork, called...


Ashes of Erebus (AoE)
* A modmodmodmod, a fork of RiFE that's still (last I checked, anyway) receiving updates. Quite a few bugfixes from RiFE, and attempts to make the whole thing more stable and with fewer missing Civilopedia entries. Makes some changes to certain civs that not everyone agrees with, but is modular, like RiFE, so you can revert those changes if you want.
* Overall, RiFE and AoE have gone in an entirely different direction than 'vanilla' FFH2 and many of its modmods, and the lore especially can only really be considered to be 'inspired by' at this point. IMO it ends up feeling chaotic and watered-down, whereas FFH2 has some really tight and impressive lore, but if lore isn't as much your thing you could have a lot of fun with this one.

Orbis
* No longer an FF modmodmodmodmodmod but incorporates some of the civs from FF, IIRC. Brings back some CIV:BTS mechanics like corporations and espionage that were removed from FFH2 (given it first emerged before BTS did), and adds some of its own civilizations as well. Pretty decent mod, all things considered. Feels much more like a BTS game than an FFH game, in my memory.

Wildmana
* Never played it, outdated, completely replaced by...

Master of Mana (MoM)
* Still updated. Recently released (a few months ago) a massive update, version 4.0 or something.
* Drastic departure from Core FFH2 gameplay. Can be considered as much a total conversion of FFH2 as FFH2 is of CIV. Spell research is separate from tech research, many more resources to concern yourself with (wood, leather, metal, etc.), simplified mana system (only 4? IIRC kinds of mana, and they function entirely differently than in FFH2).
* With the most recent update and the drastic change to the mana system, can no longer really be said to be lore-friendly at all. Safest to say it's 'inspired by' FFH, I guess.
* Not my cup of tea, but worth taking a look at.

More Naval AI (MNAI)
* A modmod that doesn't add or remove anything from base FFH2, just DLL fixes and AI improvements. I think. Haven't actually played this one, but quite a few modmodmodmodmodmodmods incorporate the changes it makes. Think of it as almost fulfilling a similar role to Skyrim's Unofficial Patches.

Magister Modmod
* Aims to stay as true as possible to FFH2 lore, including adding or removing units and features with that in mind. Has many new features, and has one of the more complete civilopedias, and is still supported and updated, generally soon after any new MNAI patch.
* Makes no attempt to be balanced, but is tons of fun. My personal favorite of the batch, and that bias probably shows.

Erebus in the Balance (EitB)
* Uses MNAI as a base, seeks to add, remove, or tweak the game such as to make the civs relatively balanced, and therefore usable in competitive multiplayer. Haven't played this one myself, but I intend to check it out at some point.
* Its commitment is firstly to balance and secondly to vanilla FFH2, and therefore has the fewest changes of any of the modmods save MNAI. None of the new features of RiFE/AoE/Orbis, none of the overhauls of MoM, none of the changes of Magister's. If you're just looking for a fairly simple place to start diving into the world of FFH2 modding, this probably isn't a bad place to start.

I think that covers all the big modmods. Keep in mind that there are a billion modmods that just change or tweak vanilla FFH2, adding a new civ here or new unit there or that sort of thing. The ones I listed here are the big ones, the ones where you choose one and that shapes any other modding you'd do further.

 

[mastroego]

Ok, so, I have to say, I am a bit (surprise surprise!) autistic about such issues.
If the thing is unpolished - or more specifically, poorly integrated with the "official" product - I will end up uninstalling the mod, despite myself even. The mismatch of things would hurt my sensibilities.

So I take it my only option is FFH, if, as I gather, it is the only truly "polished" one - or isn't it?
And what else does the mod do? More info are appreciated from the esteemed colleagues willing to share

 

[Matalarata]

Follow Eyestabber advice and install fall from heaven (+ patch "o" and mediapack) and the "Extra Modmod". Tight and polished, almost like a retail release but with added functionality over the base FFH.
Eg check the various options in the BUG menu, there's a button in the upper left corner.

 

[General Maxson]

I was just thinking about FFH2 and how much changed since I last played it a few years ago. Seems like a good time to reinstall with your advice Eyestabber! Great work bro, and please don't abandon it until you finish all the relevant FFH mods analysis at least. It's an awesome mod and it deserves attention.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Been a while, good to hear that FfH hasn't been abandoned. I've mostly been having fun with Caveman to Cosmos but I guess I'll have to give this a new spin thanks to EMM.

 

[murloc_gypsy]

Played a bit of this yesterday. FfH + Patch + Extramodmod. Looked pretty good, but I didn't get to try much of the magic tech. How is it balanced, and can the AI actually use it in a smart way?

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

 

[Eyestabber]

Played a bit of this yesterday. FfH + Patch + Extramodmod. Looked pretty good, but I didn't to trying much of the magic tech. How is it balanced, and can the AI actually use it in a smart way?

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

Define "smart". Smart as in moving a doomstack to a hill/forest FIRST and casting haste LATER? No. Not ignoring magic except for a spell or two and actually using every single available mana type in its most basic use? Yes.

Brofisted for Tapatalk. Hu3.

 

[Arrowgrab]

Oh, Ashes of Erebus has somehow slipped past my radar, will check it out.

 

[Eyestabber]

No risk of abandonment for now, bros.

Post #2 is up and post #1 got some new and higher quality screenshots.

Ty for the honest feedback Tigranes.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Master of Mana (MoM)
* Still updated. Recently released (a few months ago) a massive update, version 4.0 or something.

WHAAAAAT? i thought it died some years ago.
HOW? WHERE? WHEN? I NEED NOW!

 

[Sjukob]

Go on dude . I've never been interested in Civilization series , but you've managed grab my attention .

 

[Eyestabber]

Master of Mana (MoM)
* Still updated. Recently released (a few months ago) a massive update, version 4.0 or something.

WHAAAAAT? i thought it died some years ago.
HOW? WHERE? WHEN? I NEED NOW!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=548898

Don't get your hopes up, tho. The AI is completely fucked up. As in I had a game where AI Hippus never founded its first city...

Go on dude . I've never been interested in Civilization series , but you've managed grab my attention .

I added a new screenshot to post #2 today (Clan of Embers). Next post is about Rise from Erebus and Ashes of Erebus, so it will take a bit more time because I wanna try a couple more games with that mod. I really want to find something that RifE/AoE added that I actually consider a worthwhile addition.

 

[coldcrow]

Yea MoM is a classic example of adding more and more features, thus abandoning the initial premise (slightly expanded gameplay and good AI), fucking up everything in the process. His global magic system was brilliant, should have left it at that and polished the gem, but Sephi went on to change the economic system over and over and then left.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Master of Mana (MoM)
* Still updated. Recently released (a few months ago) a massive update, version 4.0 or something.

WHAAAAAT? i thought it died some years ago.
HOW? WHERE? WHEN? I NEED NOW!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=548898

Don't get your hopes up, tho. The AI is completely fucked up. As in I had a game where AI Hippus never founded its first city...

that's xtended, not the real master of mana =_=

 

[Whisky]

Redownloaded Fall from Heaven II and the patch. I loaded it up and the title said Master of Magic and has their unique Leaders.

What the fuck!?

I confirmed I downloaded the right one too. This is a fresh Civ IV BTS install.

 

[Eyestabber]

Redownloaded Fall from Heaven II and the patch. I loaded it up and the title said Master of Magic and has their unique Leaders.

What the fuck!?

I confirmed I downloaded the right one too. This is a fresh Civ IV BTS install.

Are you trying EMM? It might be just the main screen, since you can change it freely. EMM adds some scenario leaders like Hafgan the Purger (Clan of Embers), but no new civ. Can you see the Scions of Patria, for example?

 

[GarfunkeL]

Two games in at Prince and I've been fucked in both. Now this is a new experience.

 

[Eyestabber]

I think I might lose my Clan of Embers Immortal game (the one on the SS). Armageddon counter is at 97, Avatar of Wrath already showed up (and I killed it). Nobody wants to sign a peace treaty. I'm scared

 

[Internet]

Allright, you've done it, I'm reinstalling FfH2. How did that stardock game where Kael got involved turn out to be?

 

[Got bored and left]

Shit, how'd I miss this? 7 years late or not, you're a bro for bringing this to my attention, Eyestabber

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Allright, you've done it, I'm reinstalling FfH2. How did that stardock game where Kael got involved turn out to be?

bad.
he couldn't/wasn't let do his magic and had basically no impact on the extremely dull finished game.

 

[Whisky]

You know, I don't think I've ever played as a Good aligned civ and I've been playing since FFH1 (which i dont think had alignment). The Evil civs generally seemed more fun and interesting.

Which should I play as? The only one I can think of that plays uniquely are the Kuriotates. (Mercurians don't count since they're basically reverse Infernals)

For reference, I usually play Sheaim, Calabim, or Illian.

 

[Eyestabber]

You know, I don't think I've ever played as a Good aligned civ and I've been playing since FFH1 (which i dont think had alignment). The Evil civs generally seemed more fun and interesting.

Which should I play as? The only one I can think of that plays uniquely are the Kuriotates. (Mercurians don't count since they're basically reverse Infernals)

For reference, I usually play Sheaim, Calabim, or Illian.

Well, Bannor is the obvious answer, but I'm assuming you read the OP, so I'm gonna give you different suggestions. First of all, define "good civs". Are you referring exclusively to civs that are counted among the good ones HERE? If so...

- TRY THE ELOHIM. I know, they look boring as fuck. National Hero can sacrifice himself for insta-peace and their World Spell expels enemies from their territory. OTOH they have the ubber stronk TOLERANT trait, which allows for limitless possibilities like producing Vampire units, Dwarven Cannons etc. They can even construct another civilization's palace, for maximum adaptability. It may seem like the Elohim's good stuff doesn't really synergize, but that is not true. Elohim is a builder civilization, so you need your world spell to survive the early onslaught of the likes of Clan of Embers/Doviello/Whoeverstartsthegamewithalotofmetalresourcesnearhiscapital. After the survival phase you can start expanding and abusing the Tolerant trait for maximum lulz. Potentially Fun Civ, assuming you don't get screwed early on.

- Malakim is, IMO, a bit boring. A turtle civ with not much FUN going on for them. Fantasy Egyptians with better-than-most usage of Floodplains and the ability to easily dominate the Overcouncil. They also have great synergy with a religious victory, because of their World Spell and the Spiritual trait. To be fair, Malakim is actually easier to play with than the Bannor, because they are probably the most Vanilla-like civ, but I decided to call Bannor the "go-to noob civ" because they are almost as easy BUT, unlike the Malakim, look more like classic fantasy knights.

- Kuriotates: never played. They seem like a vertical growth enthusiast's wet dream. I'm more of a horizontal growth guy myself, so...

- Luchuirp: everyone says they used to be OP as fuck in vanilla FfH2, but I don't really know where they stand nowadays. I'm put off by their reliance on non-living units, which means no buffs. No buffs = boring.

That covers all the options for a restrictive concept of "good civ".

If by "good civ" you're willing to accept anyone who usually joins the Overcouncil then I have a couple of suggestions:

- KHAZAD. Seriously, play dem Dwarves (first SS in the OP). They have everything in place to have a strong industry producing everything in like 5 turns. Vault mechanics are very unique and add an entire new layer of strategy. Since you're probably gonna be running Arete, you'll have to consider if lowering your vault's gold level is worth whatever you intend to buy. At maximum vault level (overflowing) you get additional GPP and a ton of happy faces. Incredibly strong civ if they get a good start (aka, gold resource near the capital with plenty of hills), fairly strong otherwise. Also, your national hero is called Dwarven Cannon. Spam it:

Featuring on the screenshot: Dwarven Cannons and Arquebuses. "Compensating height with firepower" - Khazad's motto

- Amurites. Good-aligned Amurites have Paladins with every single buff in the game kicking ass non-stop. Who gives a shit about druids anyway, lolololol (yeah, I know the Amurites can have 12 archmage-tier casters, but I'd rather have stronger warriors with 8 archmages). Also, don't forget that both Order and Overcouncil have strong synergy with horizontal growth, which in turn translates into your Caves of the Ancestors giving 20+ XP to every new adept. When it comes to the Amurites, mana types are like Pokemon, you really wanna to catch 'em all! :D

- Ljosalfar. Technically not a "good" civ, but they are the "good elves", as opposed to the Svartalfar. Plus one of their leaders actually IS good, while none is evil. So there is that. Elven mechanics are very unique, since you'll be able to build improvements on top of forests, thus stacking the bonuses of both. Late game Civ, make of that what you will...

And if by "good civ" you mean anyone who might convert to the Order at some point then I have just the screenshot for you...

Orcish Paladins. Yes, they have a unique model. Join Eyestabber today on #notallorcs. You know you want to! :D