Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

TBS The Fall From Heaven Thread [Civ 4 mod] - 2016 Edition™ - 2022 Update!

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
28,396
Location
Not Here
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
It's a great mod. One that I wish they can somehow replicate in Civ V
 

murloc_gypsy

Cipher
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
323
Master of Mana's answer is "FfH was a great start. But when it comes to implementing medieval fantasy mechanics in Civ4 we could do so much more!". Notice that by "more" I actually mean "deeper" rather than "more units, religions, civics etc". Wildmana/Master of Mana boasts a superior magic system and stronger RPG elements. The Xtended version by esvath also features BEAUTIFUL new unit models. The difference between AoE and MoM is that AoE makes the game BIGGER, but it's more of the same while MoM created something almost entirely new.

This one actually sounds more up my alley. But does it also suffer from the same issues :

Three glaring issues remained: the AI doesn't know how to play the game, the numbers look really weird and the game lacks general polishing.

or is it more polished?
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
Patron
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
5,107
Dug up from archives of somewhere, probably Reddit, how accurate is this summary when it comes to FfH2 mods-mods-mods? Or just roll vanilla mod?

Alright, I'll take a stab at it. Haven't played all of them, and haven't played any in a year(ish?), but let's see what I can do.

Fall Further (FF)
* Takes vanilla FFH2 and adds a few more civs and things. Not many new mechanics, and makes an attempt to fit the new civs in with existing lore, though not always successful.
* I only played a bit of this one, early on. It's pretty decent if what you're wanting is just "More FFH2", and isn't a bad place to start, either. Nothing really outstanding about it, in my memory.

Rise From Erebus (RiFE)
* A Modmodmod of FF, it adds even more new civs and mechanics. Attempts to be modular, but the launcher is somewhat buggy and the game often has issues if you add or remove modules.
* There's a lot going on in this mod, and it can take a while to wrap your head around all the new mechanics. Plays somewhat differently from 'vanilla' FFH2. One of the major new mechanics, off the top of my head, is that forts exert cultural control, slowly growing into improvements much like Civ5's citadels, and always have a free "Fort Commander" that slowly levels up and gets more powerful as time goes on.
* Development slowly dwindled, and now has a further fork, called...


Ashes of Erebus (AoE)

* A modmodmodmod, a fork of RiFE that's still (last I checked, anyway) receiving updates. Quite a few bugfixes from RiFE, and attempts to make the whole thing more stable and with fewer missing Civilopedia entries. Makes some changes to certain civs that not everyone agrees with, but is modular, like RiFE, so you can revert those changes if you want.
* Overall, RiFE and AoE have gone in an entirely different direction than 'vanilla' FFH2 and many of its modmods, and the lore especially can only really be considered to be 'inspired by' at this point. IMO it ends up feeling chaotic and watered-down, whereas FFH2 has some really tight and impressive lore, but if lore isn't as much your thing you could have a lot of fun with this one.

Orbis
* No longer an FF modmodmodmodmodmod but incorporates some of the civs from FF, IIRC. Brings back some CIV:BTS mechanics like corporations and espionage that were removed from FFH2 (given it first emerged before BTS did), and adds some of its own civilizations as well. Pretty decent mod, all things considered. Feels much more like a BTS game than an FFH game, in my memory.

Wildmana
* Never played it, outdated, completely replaced by...

Master of Mana (MoM)
* Still updated. Recently released (a few months ago) a massive update, version 4.0 or something.
* Drastic departure from Core FFH2 gameplay. Can be considered as much a total conversion of FFH2 as FFH2 is of CIV. Spell research is separate from tech research, many more resources to concern yourself with (wood, leather, metal, etc.), simplified mana system (only 4? IIRC kinds of mana, and they function entirely differently than in FFH2).
* With the most recent update and the drastic change to the mana system, can no longer really be said to be lore-friendly at all. Safest to say it's 'inspired by' FFH, I guess.
* Not my cup of tea, but worth taking a look at.

More Naval AI (MNAI)
* A modmod that doesn't add or remove anything from base FFH2, just DLL fixes and AI improvements. I think. Haven't actually played this one, but quite a few modmodmodmodmodmodmods incorporate the changes it makes. Think of it as almost fulfilling a similar role to Skyrim's Unofficial Patches.

Magister Modmod
* Aims to stay as true as possible to FFH2 lore, including adding or removing units and features with that in mind. Has many new features, and has one of the more complete civilopedias, and is still supported and updated, generally soon after any new MNAI patch.
* Makes no attempt to be balanced, but is tons of fun. My personal favorite of the batch, and that bias probably shows.

Erebus in the Balance (EitB)
* Uses MNAI as a base, seeks to add, remove, or tweak the game such as to make the civs relatively balanced, and therefore usable in competitive multiplayer. Haven't played this one myself, but I intend to check it out at some point.
* Its commitment is firstly to balance and secondly to vanilla FFH2, and therefore has the fewest changes of any of the modmods save MNAI. None of the new features of RiFE/AoE/Orbis, none of the overhauls of MoM, none of the changes of Magister's. If you're just looking for a fairly simple place to start diving into the world of FFH2 modding, this probably isn't a bad place to start.

I think that covers all the big modmods. Keep in mind that there are a billion modmods that just change or tweak vanilla FFH2, adding a new civ here or new unit there or that sort of thing. The ones I listed here are the big ones, the ones where you choose one and that shapes any other modding you'd do further.
 

mastroego

Arcane
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
10,252
Location
Italy
Ok, so, I have to say, I am a bit (surprise surprise!) autistic about such issues.
If the thing is unpolished - or more specifically, poorly integrated with the "official" product - I will end up uninstalling the mod, despite myself even. The mismatch of things would hurt my sensibilities.

So I take it my only option is FFH, if, as I gather, it is the only truly "polished" one - or isn't it?
And what else does the mod do? More info are appreciated from the esteemed colleagues willing to share :)
 

Matalarata

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
2,646
Location
The threshold line
Follow Eyestabber advice and install fall from heaven (+ patch "o" and mediapack) and the "Extra Modmod". Tight and polished, almost like a retail release but with added functionality over the base FFH.
Eg check the various options in the BUG menu, there's a button in the upper left corner.
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
3,438
Location
Lost Hills bunker
I was just thinking about FFH2 and how much changed since I last played it a few years ago. Seems like a good time to reinstall with your advice Eyestabber! Great work bro, and please don't abandon it until you finish all the relevant FFH mods analysis at least. It's an awesome mod and it deserves attention.
 

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
15,463
Location
Insert clever insult here
Been a while, good to hear that FfH hasn't been abandoned. I've mostly been having fun with Caveman to Cosmos but I guess I'll have to give this a new spin thanks to EMM.
 

murloc_gypsy

Cipher
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
323
Played a bit of this yesterday. FfH + Patch + Extramodmod. Looked pretty good, but I didn't get to try much of the magic tech. How is it balanced, and can the AI actually use it in a smart way?

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

Eyestabber

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
4,733
Location
HUEland
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Played a bit of this yesterday. FfH + Patch + Extramodmod. Looked pretty good, but I didn't to trying much of the magic tech. How is it balanced, and can the AI actually use it in a smart way?

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk

Define "smart". Smart as in moving a doomstack to a hill/forest FIRST and casting haste LATER? No. Not ignoring magic except for a spell or two and actually using every single available mana type in its most basic use? Yes.

Brofisted for Tapatalk. Hu3.
 

Arrowgrab

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
603
Oh, Ashes of Erebus has somehow slipped past my radar, will check it out.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
8,848
Location
Italy
Master of Mana (MoM)
* Still updated. Recently released (a few months ago) a massive update, version 4.0 or something.
WHAAAAAT? i thought it died some years ago.
HOW? WHERE? WHEN? I NEED NOW!
 

Sjukob

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
2,057
Go on dude . I've never been interested in Civilization series , but you've managed grab my attention .
 

Eyestabber

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
4,733
Location
HUEland
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Master of Mana (MoM)
* Still updated. Recently released (a few months ago) a massive update, version 4.0 or something.
WHAAAAAT? i thought it died some years ago.
HOW? WHERE? WHEN? I NEED NOW!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=548898

Don't get your hopes up, tho. The AI is completely fucked up. As in I had a game where AI Hippus never founded its first city...

Go on dude . I've never been interested in Civilization series , but you've managed grab my attention .

I added a new screenshot to post #2 today (Clan of Embers). Next post is about Rise from Erebus and Ashes of Erebus, so it will take a bit more time because I wanna try a couple more games with that mod. I really want to find something that RifE/AoE added that I actually consider a worthwhile addition.
 

coldcrow

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
1,656
Yea MoM is a classic example of adding more and more features, thus abandoning the initial premise (slightly expanded gameplay and good AI), fucking up everything in the process. His global magic system was brilliant, should have left it at that and polished the gem, but Sephi went on to change the economic system over and over and then left.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
8,848
Location
Italy
Master of Mana (MoM)
* Still updated. Recently released (a few months ago) a massive update, version 4.0 or something.
WHAAAAAT? i thought it died some years ago.
HOW? WHERE? WHEN? I NEED NOW!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=548898

Don't get your hopes up, tho. The AI is completely fucked up. As in I had a game where AI Hippus never founded its first city...
that's xtended, not the real master of mana =_=
 

Whisky

The Solution
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
8,555
Location
Banjoville, British Columbia
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
Redownloaded Fall from Heaven II and the patch. I loaded it up and the title said Master of Magic and has their unique Leaders.

What the fuck!?

I confirmed I downloaded the right one too. This is a fresh Civ IV BTS install.
 

Eyestabber

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
4,733
Location
HUEland
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Redownloaded Fall from Heaven II and the patch. I loaded it up and the title said Master of Magic and has their unique Leaders.

What the fuck!?

I confirmed I downloaded the right one too. This is a fresh Civ IV BTS install.

Are you trying EMM? It might be just the main screen, since you can change it freely. EMM adds some scenario leaders like Hafgan the Purger (Clan of Embers), but no new civ. Can you see the Scions of Patria, for example?
 

Eyestabber

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
4,733
Location
HUEland
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
I think I might lose my Clan of Embers Immortal game (the one on the SS). Armageddon counter is at 97, Avatar of Wrath already showed up (and I killed it). Nobody wants to sign a peace treaty. I'm scared :(
 

Internet

Scholar
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
136
Allright, you've done it, I'm reinstalling FfH2. How did that stardock game where Kael got involved turn out to be?
 

Got bored and left

Guest
Shit, how'd I miss this? 7 years late or not, you're a bro for bringing this to my attention, Eyestabber :salute:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Whisky

The Solution
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
8,555
Location
Banjoville, British Columbia
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
You know, I don't think I've ever played as a Good aligned civ and I've been playing since FFH1 (which i dont think had alignment). The Evil civs generally seemed more fun and interesting.

Which should I play as? The only one I can think of that plays uniquely are the Kuriotates. (Mercurians don't count since they're basically reverse Infernals)

For reference, I usually play Sheaim, Calabim, or Illian.
 

Eyestabber

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
4,733
Location
HUEland
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
You know, I don't think I've ever played as a Good aligned civ and I've been playing since FFH1 (which i dont think had alignment). The Evil civs generally seemed more fun and interesting.

Which should I play as? The only one I can think of that plays uniquely are the Kuriotates. (Mercurians don't count since they're basically reverse Infernals)

For reference, I usually play Sheaim, Calabim, or Illian.

Well, Bannor is the obvious answer, but I'm assuming you read the OP, so I'm gonna give you different suggestions. First of all, define "good civs". Are you referring exclusively to civs that are counted among the good ones HERE? If so...

- TRY THE ELOHIM. I know, they look boring as fuck. National Hero can sacrifice himself for insta-peace and their World Spell expels enemies from their territory. OTOH they have the ubber stronk TOLERANT trait, which allows for limitless possibilities like producing Vampire units, Dwarven Cannons etc. They can even construct another civilization's palace, for maximum adaptability. It may seem like the Elohim's good stuff doesn't really synergize, but that is not true. Elohim is a builder civilization, so you need your world spell to survive the early onslaught of the likes of Clan of Embers/Doviello/Whoeverstartsthegamewithalotofmetalresourcesnearhiscapital. After the survival phase you can start expanding and abusing the Tolerant trait for maximum lulz. Potentially Fun Civ, assuming you don't get screwed early on.

- Malakim is, IMO, a bit boring. A turtle civ with not much FUN going on for them. Fantasy Egyptians with better-than-most usage of Floodplains and the ability to easily dominate the Overcouncil. They also have great synergy with a religious victory, because of their World Spell and the Spiritual trait. To be fair, Malakim is actually easier to play with than the Bannor, because they are probably the most Vanilla-like civ, but I decided to call Bannor the "go-to noob civ" because they are almost as easy BUT, unlike the Malakim, look more like classic fantasy knights.

- Kuriotates: never played. They seem like a vertical growth enthusiast's wet dream. I'm more of a horizontal growth guy myself, so...

- Luchuirp: everyone says they used to be OP as fuck in vanilla FfH2, but I don't really know where they stand nowadays. I'm put off by their reliance on non-living units, which means no buffs. No buffs = boring.

That covers all the options for a restrictive concept of "good civ".

If by "good civ" you're willing to accept anyone who usually joins the Overcouncil then I have a couple of suggestions:

- KHAZAD. Seriously, play dem Dwarves (first SS in the OP). They have everything in place to have a strong industry producing everything in like 5 turns. Vault mechanics are very unique and add an entire new layer of strategy. Since you're probably gonna be running Arete, you'll have to consider if lowering your vault's gold level is worth whatever you intend to buy. At maximum vault level (overflowing) you get additional GPP and a ton of happy faces. Incredibly strong civ if they get a good start (aka, gold resource near the capital with plenty of hills), fairly strong otherwise. Also, your national hero is called Dwarven Cannon. Spam it:

O5HSDhu.png

Featuring on the screenshot: Dwarven Cannons and Arquebuses. "Compensating height with firepower" - Khazad's motto

- Amurites. Good-aligned Amurites have Paladins with every single buff in the game kicking ass non-stop. Who gives a shit about druids anyway, lolololol (yeah, I know the Amurites can have 12 archmage-tier casters, but I'd rather have stronger warriors with 8 archmages). Also, don't forget that both Order and Overcouncil have strong synergy with horizontal growth, which in turn translates into your Caves of the Ancestors giving 20+ XP to every new adept. When it comes to the Amurites, mana types are like Pokemon, you really wanna to catch 'em all! :D

- Ljosalfar. Technically not a "good" civ, but they are the "good elves", as opposed to the Svartalfar. Plus one of their leaders actually IS good, while none is evil. So there is that. Elven mechanics are very unique, since you'll be able to build improvements on top of forests, thus stacking the bonuses of both. Late game Civ, make of that what you will...

And if by "good civ" you mean anyone who might convert to the Order at some point then I have just the screenshot for you...

Z69QOho.png

Orcish Paladins. Yes, they have a unique model. Join Eyestabber today on #notallorcs. You know you want to! :D
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom