The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians - dungeon crawler with RTwP combat

[Whisper]

Yup. It's just that the druid heals 100%, necro heals 75%, deals 25% dmg to the enemy. Otherwise, he plays exactly the same - just constantly keep using your abilities on the tank and, later on, begins to heal up the party a bit. He's mass healing spells are shittier, but conveniently he's given a relatively strong damage reduction tool so the overall DPS flow remains the same.

Druid focus on HOTs and does little damage. He also focus on AOE healing.
Necro deals damage as DD but part of damage is converted to heals. Also low AOE healing and more CC abilities. He has also heals that transfer his HP to his target etc.

They play totally different. Just try it (you obviously did not play both classes for reasonable time).

Man at arms, assassin & ranger - pretty much. I mean, ranger & assassin are carbon copies of each other, it's a fucking joke. Man at arms doesn't have the streak mechanic but, all in all, it's not like it means that much.

Elementalist is a bit different, but he's still nothing but DPS engine - it's just that whereas the physical ones pay more attention to the singular targets (even if they have some side-AoEs), Elementalist is more about group fighting.


The point is, they're all about one singular thing - bumrushing the foe and starting the excel spreadsheet fun. It's all about the amount of DPS taken, amount of DPS done. As long as its calculated and you're following the game's patterns (which are not that hard to crack and which are routine to actually follow), you're fine.


Let's compare this to the LoG 2. While it allegedly has the shitty combat system, you have much more option than this. Make the sturdy frontline with two tanks, stand & fight? Check. Have a couple of backstabbers and a couple of disablers so you can easily slash their backs? Check. Use alchemical bear combat where you kill enemies easily but have to manage your ingredients? Check. Use mostly ranged party with throwers/archers on the frontline, casters in the backrow? Check. Use the traditional "charge heavy weapons and kite them" Dungeon Master style? Check.

None of those are extremely complicated, but they do offer a choice. Not to mention that the trashmob amount isn't as high as in the Fall. And they have principal differences. Let me spell it letter by letter: P-R-I-N-C-I-P-A-L.

Here, are the difference is: well, this class receives 5% less DPS, but it does 7% less AoE DPS. This class reduces the enemy DPS by 10%, but it also heals 8% less of their DPS. This class does 5% more DPS, but also receives 5% more DPS. This DPS does DPS, but DPS less DPS. DPS DPS DPS. DPS!

Elementalist is not about AOE, he has some AOE but he excell at single-target damage. For AOE you probably would want warlock.
Main difference from rogue is that rogue is not limited by mana and has streak system. Elementalist can deal more damage but in the long run he needs to balance damage to mana spend ratio.



About LOG2, you cant

1) "Make the sturdy frontline with two tanks, stand & fight", just try it. Will it be high evasion tank, will be high protection tank, or combination of both evasion+prot tank, they will be raped by enemies very fast. You CANT stand up and tank trolls, you cant tank most end-game (and even mid-game) enemies.
2) "Have a couple of backstabbers and a couple of disablers so you can easily slash their backs?" What disablers? Random-procing frost bolt (totally unreliable)? Random blindness?
3) "Use alchemical bear combat where you kill enemies easily but have to manage your ingredients?" You dont need to manage ingridients. Alchimists "gather" (i.e. not really, they do nother to gather, they just appear out of nothing in backpacks) ingridients when your party moves around. Each ingridient takes different amount of "steps", but since you can step unlimitedly, you have unlimited ingridients, even those that break game if there is no limit on them (i.e. crystal flowers).
LOG1 did HAD limit on ingridients, and you did have to consider spending potion now or saving it for later. But not LOG2, spend away, they are free and unlimited.
4) "Use mostly ranged party with throwers/archers on the frontline, casters in the backrow". Check number 1), with tanks not being "tanks" you might as well indeed focus on ranged. Oh and you cant make characters of same class, i.e. 4 bow users. Since good weapons are limited, you wont find 4 good bows.
5) "Use the traditional "charge heavy weapons and kite them" Dungeon Master style?" It is basically what you would whole game, kiting with heavy weapons (both ranged and melee! Since you dont have enough good weapons for ranger only party, so you do have to take either mages or melee DD's) since your "tanks" would tank nothing, i.e. get raped quickly even by measly zombies in graveyard.

"None of those are extremely complicated, but they do offer a choice." Not choice. An illusion of choice.


In Fall taking evasion tank and necromancer and 2 mages playes completely different (D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T) than taking protection tank and druid and 2 rogues as DD. Just try it for several levels.

It is totally like playing different game since combat is very different.


Also LOG2 is shit. I do know. I played it once (on hardest, since normal is too easy even compared to LOG1). I replay LOG1 like 3 times already. No wonder many people who bought LOG1 ignored LOG2. I would do same if knew more about LOG2 before buying.

 

[ManuTOO]

Version v1.0b has just been released !

It features the Treasure Hunt : it's a chained series of riddles, more or less easy, designed mostly to test your memory and your observation skill.
I hope you'll enjoy it !

And to celebrate that, the game is 25% off on Steam till end of the week => http://store.steampowered.com/app/409450 !

 

[Magellan]

This is 55% off on Steam right now. ($8.99)

 

[ManuTOO]

To add to Magellan info, the version 1.0d has just been released.

This new version mostly brings the final touch for customizing the difficulty : now, if you select the Custom Difficulty and turn on the Advanced Tuning, you can set the strength of Normal, Elite and Boss enemies separately.

This will both help the players thinking that only normal mobs are too easy, and the players thinking that Elites and/or Bosses are too difficult compared to the base mobs.

Note: it's still recommended to play with one of the numerous built-in difficulty levels, as most players do, but if you wanted more freedom of choice, here you go !

This new version also brings a bunch of enhancements and fixes for the Map Editor to give a more user friendly creation.

Complete details of changes and fixed bugs can be seen here : http://steamcommunity.com/app/409450/discussions/0/490123727974362306/?ctp=6#c359543951698627341

 

[Celerity]

>Sees if anyone here is aware of this game.
>Sees Pope Amole II being a popamole faggot.

Didn't you ragequit Xulima on Casual? How can you even talk about how systems work when you're not capable of grasping basic auto attacking?

I meanwhile made a difficulty much harder than the hardest and beat that. And now I'm trying this and getting rekt, on Crusader of course. :D

ManuTOO , you probably shouldn't take many posters here very seriously. Between the casualness and the irrational hatred for real time with pause and the general not being satisifyable the Codex is generally more interested in bitching about games than enjoying them.

 

[Naraya]

7.19 EUR on Humble Bundle currently. Is this game good?

 

[Whisper]

Good enough if you like crawlers and decent combat. Real time with pause.

 

[Naraya]

Thanks, I read a few reviews and it looks neat however I remembered my rule of not buying stuff on Steam so this point is kinda moot anyway. Should it get on GoG, I'll grab it for sure.

Currently continuing my journey through LoL and I still have EoB in the queue, so I'm covered for some time

 

[ManuTOO]

Naraya,
DG won't get on GOG, but you can get it here => http://www.managames.com/DungeonGuardians/buy-the-game/ , without advanced DRM, only old Key system...

 

[Heretic]

70% off on Steam, the lowest it has been so far

I'll try it. I've never played MMORPGs because ... I actually don't know... so this will be a completely new experience to me.

Edit: I'm browsing the Steam discussions and it looks that the game has been patched a lot since release, with many new features, detailed difficulty settings, bug fixes etc. That's always a good sign to me.

 

[Drew]

It's literally wow running in a grimrock engine.
At least it was when I played it in September. If you can't get enough Grimrock go for it, but I'd be a bit reserved in your expectations.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Nah, discounted bad game is still a bad game. Dropped this one after a few hours.

 

[Heretic]

I'm in level 3, so far it's quite a lot of fun. The battles with normal enemies are kind of samey - taunt with the warrior, heal him with a healer, pew pew with the ranger and the mage... Change spells and attacks depending on whether I'm fighting a group or a single enemy. But granted, I play only on a "Slightly Hard" difficulty (Soldier, I think) and Elite/Boss fights had some interesting changes and challenges - evade a powerful attack, stand with your back against the wall.

I like that the levels are not full of illogical secrets and filler puzzles. If there's a secret wall, it's always in a place where it makes sense.

Not sure if I'll finish it, I bowed out of both Grimrocks (1 in the final level, 2 much sooner), but so far it's quite fun. The loot and the level ups are rationed just so.

 

[oscar]

70% off sale again, gonna give it a jam.

 

[anvi]

I have a huge boner for this game, is it justified? I wanna buy it but $20 is kinda steep for something I might munch through in an evening.

p.s. Making Legend of Grimrock but with decent combat is something I dream about at night.

 

[ManuTOO]

@anvi,
if you play in a challenging difficulty level requiring to use the active pause during the game, look for all the secrets, solve all the optional puzzles, and do the Treasure Hunt, count at least 50 hours to finish the game.
If you want less combat and play with the Low Enemy Density, count about 25% less time ; if you play with the permanent automap, remove another 10%.

If you have OCD or like to take your time, try out things, different Party builds, then you might pass the 100-hour mark like some players did...

Note: DG isn't LoG, as it's not puzzle based ; so there's less puzzles in DG, most of them are optional (ie: you'll only get better gear by doing them) and they are relatively straightforward (ie: you likely won't need to look for a solution online ).

 

[aweigh]

can abilities be hotkeyed to a keyboard key or must one click on every single thing?

 

[ManuTOO]

@aweigh,
you have hotkeys for up to 10 abilities per character (which is the number of abilities most specializations get at the end of the game, if not going cross-specs) + optional macros if you want, with their own hotkeys.

 

[anvi]

Thanks I'm gonna get this. And I rarely play anything on hard mode but this game I will honor with my time and effort.

 

[ManuTOO]

@anvi,
if you have any questions or issues, don't hesitate to ask me.

And for anybody interested, you can find a guide & walkthrough made by an user here : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1119258123 .

 

[Gimble]

Naraya,
DG won't get on GOG, but you can get it here => http://www.managames.com/DungeonGuardians/buy-the-game/ , without advanced DRM, only old Key system...

Any reason for not releasing on GOG?

Btw, I really enjoyed your previous games (completely different genre, of course) and wont mind taking the plunge on this one. An RT blobber with good character development system and actual tactical combat with no square dance mechanics sounds appealing.

 

[ManuTOO]

@Gimble,
GOG refused it for "being too niche" ; someone set it in wishlist here https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/the_fall_of_the_dungeon_guardians , but it didn't change anything.

 

[Gimble]

@Gimble,
GOG refused it for "being too niche" ; someone set it in wishlist here https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/the_fall_of_the_dungeon_guardians , but it didn't change anything.

That's unfortunate.

Have you tried contacting them recently? Your game is well received on steam and I have seen wishlisted games with less votes get a GOG release. It never hurts to be able to list there as their userbase tends to be more appreciative of these types of games, on average, compared to steam.

 

[Whisper]

Will there part 2 of this game?

 

[ManuTOO]

@Gimble,
I had contacted them again at beginning of 2016, once the wishlist reached 333 votes, but I didn't get any answer. Anyway, the loss is likely relatively small, as Steam is extremely popular.

@Whisper,
I hope it'll have a DG2, but not before 5 years ( = time to do my tennis games + DG2), if not more, depending of my work rhythm. I have noted down a ton of ideas to make the game more varied with new challenges..!