Decline The lack of sincerity in RPGs (and gaming in general)

[Ritz]

I came across this just now.

https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1894826165577097441

Video game adaptations are generally a waste of time for everyone involved, but I really hate this self-aware humor and meta-joke shit everything defaults to now. Devil May Cry is a series that knows it's absolutely fucking insane, knows people love it for that reason, and loves itself for what it is and makes no concessions in being itself - completely unapologetic and sincere. People in the comments are saying the writer reused the same setup from the Castlevania adaptation too and I've seen the same scene play out dozens of times by now.

 

[Necrensha]

I came across this just now.

https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1894826165577097441

Video game adaptations are generally a waste of time for everyone involved, but I really hate this self-aware humor and meta-joke shit everything defaults to now. Devil May Cry is a series that knows it's absolutely fucking insane, knows people love it for that reason, and loves itself for what it is and makes no concessions in being itself - completely unapologetic and sincere. People in the comments are saying the writer reused the same setup from the Castlevania adaptation too and I've seen the same scene play out dozens of times by now.

>10 fps animation
>Dante has Nero's looks from DMC4 and Nero's voice too
>Cringe millennial self-aware joke at the end
The usual lazy cashgrab adaptation that's also filled with middle fingers to the audience, nothing new for Netflix.

 

[S.torch]

I came across this just now.

https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1894826165577097441

Video game adaptations are generally a waste of time for everyone involved, but I really hate this self-aware humor and meta-joke shit everything defaults to now. Devil May Cry is a series that knows it's absolutely fucking insane, knows people love it for that reason, and loves itself for what it is and makes no concessions in being itself - completely unapologetic and sincere. People in the comments are saying the writer reused the same setup from the Castlevania adaptation too and I've seen the same scene play out dozens of times by now.

Not surprised. It was made by the same studio who shitted all over Castlevania lore and the main writer said he never played the games to do the story for the series.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Adaptations of anything are a waste of time now. The AMC adaptation of Interview with the Vampire absolutely destroyed the source material even though it was already hugely progressive. I’m not gonna bother spoilering it: the writers hired an adult woman to play Claudia, had her get raped, and then shoved her into a lesbian romance with a Nazi. Anne Rice is rolling in her grave.

 

[akkadian5]

Not all older works lack this kind of tendency. The works of J.B. Cabell, one of the founding figures of American fantasy, are filled whit heavy self-reference and relentless irony, and to be honest, the come remarkably close to the ridiculous tone often found in modern storytelling. (That said, he are far superior in both technical execution and structural composition compared to the pseudo-random, Markov chain-like narratives of today.)
Some of Jack Vance's works, influenced by Cabell, also carry a similar atmosphere, which is one of the reasons I found The Eyes of the Overworld so painful to read that I couldn't finish it.

However, how a work is evaluated by later generations is an entirely different matter. Just as Cabell, who once had a significant fanbase, is rarely discussed today, the legacy of contemporary works remains uncetain.

 

[Sibelius]

This looks like it could be a good example of humour done right in games, a game that as been designed with that dark humour as a key component and not just cringe quips and references.



Game looks pretty interesting, I'm going to try out the demo tonight.

 

[Tavernking]

Yall are fucking miserable loosers who never made a decent video game let alone a movie, a book or something in your fucking lives.

You think the proportion of gamers who are also gamedevs/filmmakers/writers has ever been higher than 1%?

 

[-M-]

Don't want to sound like a broken record, but FromSoftware's games are full of sincerity*

*laziness.

 

[EvilWolf]

Not all older works lack this kind of tendency. The works of J.B. Cabell, one of the founding figures of American fantasy, are filled whit heavy self-reference and relentless irony, and to be honest, the come remarkably close to the ridiculous tone often found in modern storytelling. (That said, he are far superior in both technical execution and structural composition compared to the pseudo-random, Markov chain-like narratives of today.)
Some of Jack Vance's works, influenced by Cabell, also carry a similar atmosphere, which is one of the reasons I found The Eyes of the Overworld so painful to read that I couldn't finish it.

However, how a work is evaluated by later generations is an entirely different matter. Just as Cabell, who once had a significant fanbase, is rarely discussed today, the legacy of contemporary works remains uncetain.

I feel like it's a case of chronic design by committee disease. See New Vegas to Outer Worlds. "Everyone likes New Vegas! It must be all the different factions! Quick make every hub area have multiple factions! Who CARES if the one you ally with doesn't change anything! THE MORE FACTIONS THE BETTER! I hear the kids also like the Fallout humor! Let's make every third sentence a Rick and Morty joke! In fact let's base one of the characters off Rick Sanchez' likeness!"

 

[luj1]

This new game featured on the front page (Esoteric Ebb) is a good example of trying to be zany at the expense of what you people called "sincerity." A paladin, who instead of slaying monsters and investigating dungeons, is sitting on a windmill on his arse and going in circles. I understand infantilism when it's acute, but people who find this funny or cool in any way have an unhealthy dose of it.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Yall are fucking miserable loosers who never made a decent video game let alone a movie, a book or something in your fucking lives.

You think the proportion of gamers who are also gamedevs/filmmakers/writers has ever been higher than 1%?

I’m trying to write fiction that emulates the cool stuff I liked from 20-30 years ago before the decline set in, but it’s really disheartening. I’m never getting professionally published because I’m not writing about race and gender trauma. It’s impossible to even find communities with my outdated tastes anymore, so I feel like I’m casting pearls before swine.

 

[Iucounu]

Some of Jack Vance's works, influenced by Cabell, also carry a similar atmosphere, which is one of the reasons I found The Eyes of the Overworld so painful to read that I couldn't finish it.

Not sure what you mean, could you give some examples of this from Vance?

 

[rojay]

He's talking about stories involving Cugel the Clever, I assume. Cugel is a scoundrel and the stories include humor; sort of like George MacDonald Fraser's "Flashman" novels. I love both, but tastes vary.

Wikipedia's summary seems pretty accurate to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eyes_of_the_Overworld

 

[jimster]

This new game featured on the front page (Esoteric Ebb) is a good example of trying to be zany at the expense of what you people called "sincerity." A paladin, who instead of slaying monsters and investigating dungeons, is sitting on a windmill on his arse and going in circles. I understand infantilism when it's acute, but people who find this funny or cool in any way have an unhealthy dose of it.

Something like that could be good if it's actually funny, like Dink Smallwood.

 

[luj1]

Yeah Idk. I noticed that black humor (Fallout, Arcanum, etc.) was replaced by Reddit-tier zany shit.

There was a really funny interaction in NwN (SoU) where a bandit took a woman's baby hostage. I went to get the child, but ended up killing both the bandit and the baby. I told the woman that her baby didn't survive. She went into shock, but I said I was only messing with her and that her child is actually alive. She briefly rejoiced, but then I said nah I was just joking your baby is really dead.

It's interesting that when people became softer and began censoring this shit, the world became a lot more crazy.

 

[Iucounu]

He's talking about stories involving Cugel the Clever, I assume. Cugel is a scoundrel and the stories include humor; sort of like George MacDonald Fraser's "Flashman" novels. I love both, but tastes vary.

Wikipedia's summary seems pretty accurate to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eyes_of_the_Overworld

I know, that's why I'm asking. Maybe I've misunderstood the thread.

 

[rojay]

He's talking about stories involving Cugel the Clever, I assume. Cugel is a scoundrel and the stories include humor; sort of like George MacDonald Fraser's "Flashman" novels. I love both, but tastes vary.

Wikipedia's summary seems pretty accurate to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eyes_of_the_Overworld

I know, that's why I'm asking. Maybe I've misunderstood the thread.

Oh christ your name.

 

[akkadian5]

Some of Jack Vance's works, influenced by Cabell, also carry a similar atmosphere, which is one of the reasons I found The Eyes of the Overworld so painful to read that I couldn't finish it.

Not sure what you mean, could you give some examples of this from Vance?

To be honest, I have to admit that my logic was quite all over the place since I wrote that while drunk late at night. I was probably thinking more about conceptual aspect rather than the direct content.
The Eyes of the Overworld is, in itself, a serious story, yet it also has a satirical element, most notably in Cugel's constant flippant commentary on his own situation.
This is tendency that I believe is rarely found in old British fantasy works that are fundamentally about morality, such as those by George MacDonald or Lord Dunsany. In this sense, there is an American inclination to perceive fantasy as escapism, much like we see today.
Of course, Vance wrote in a variety of tones and executed everything far more skillfully. While some of his works don't align with my personal tastes, I believe it would be unfair to directly compare them to the inferior works of today.

 

[Harthwain]

The Eyes of the Overworld is, in itself, a serious story, yet it also has a satirical element, most notably in Cugel's constant flippant commentary on his own situation.
This is tendency that I believe is rarely found in old British fantasy works that are fundamentally about morality, such as those by George MacDonald or Lord Dunsany. In this sense, there is an American inclination to perceive fantasy as escapism, much like we see today.

This reminds me of Hazell and the Menacing Jester by P. B. Yuill (apparently it was a whole series of books that got its own TV series produced by Thames Television, called Hazell).

In that book, just like you said, the story itself is serious and mundane, but the way it is written (highly satirically, with flippant commentary) makes it seem more otherworldly and therefore more interesting. But what makes humor work is the style. Simply because you create something with high dose of satire doesn't automatically mean it will funny. After all, a joke has to be properly delivered in order to make people laugh and forced jokes are seldom funny.

 

[Iucounu]

Some of Jack Vance's works, influenced by Cabell, also carry a similar atmosphere, which is one of the reasons I found The Eyes of the Overworld so painful to read that I couldn't finish it.

Not sure what you mean, could you give some examples of this from Vance?

To be honest, I have to admit that my logic was quite all over the place since I wrote that while drunk late at night. I was probably thinking more about conceptual aspect rather than the direct content.
The Eyes of the Overworld is, in itself, a serious story, yet it also has a satirical element, most notably in Cugel's constant flippant commentary on his own situation.
This is tendency that I believe is rarely found in old British fantasy works that are fundamentally about morality

Did Cugel comment on his own situation much? I may have to re-read these again, it's been a while. What I mostly remember is that the depiction of Cugel himself was less likeable in Eyes of the Overworld. The tone in the sequel Cugel's Saga (which I read before Eyes of the Overworld) more often makes fun of Cugel's character flaws, which helps making him more likeable.

 

[Red Rogue]

So, what, if anything at all, is the way out of this dynamic? Just do our best to support the good amongst the bad?
Because as we know the trash keeps selling like hot cakes. We're starting to see a push back against disingenuous identity politics, I suppose that's a start, but it's only a small part of the trash fire.

 

[luj1]

So, what, if anything at all, is the way out of this dynamic?

Register on RPG Codex and become brutal

 

[RaggleFraggle]

So, what, if anything at all, is the way out of this dynamic? Just do our best to support the good amongst the bad?
Because as we know the trash keeps selling like hot cakes. We're starting to see a push back against disingenuous identity politics, I suppose that's a start, but it's only a small part of the trash fire.

You could also try making new games. If crpgs are too difficult, then ttrpgs are another option. There’s a lot of old dead ttrpgs with interesting concepts that could benefit from spiritual successors.

 

[Morenatsu.]

You play RPGs about old dead titties?

 

[RaggleFraggle]

You play RPGs about old dead titties?

The acronym ttrpg means tabletop roleplaying game