The Legend of Heroes Thread - Trails of Cold Steel in the Sky

[Jinn]

Two words: the ending. I actually really like the ending (in an artistic sense) and love the game, but the fact President Kondo felt he needed to come out and apologise to fans specifically for the ending I think highlights what fans were so upset about. Arguably and more specifically (without specific spoilers):

(1) The ending ties up lots of loose ends but it also creates of new "What the?!?!!?"s as well even within the last 30 seconds before the credits;
(2) In keeping with your comment about breaking molds, it is not a typical Kiseki "to be continued..." ending where at least there are some positives to look forward to for the characters; and
(3) The protagonist arguably breaks the fated destiny of "generic teenage JRPG hero" (you know the one all the pro-western game fans love to lump hate on?) but for the fans maybe they wanted that generic fate?

All sounds great and an overall improvement to me. Why are people such morons?

 

[4249]

Shiiiiiiiet

Spoiler

Seeing this

And Gin no Ishi starting to play is the fan service I crave for. Right in the feelsies.

Also finally a fun fight on nightmare with Duvalie and Shirley.

 

[aweigh]

So i'm about 25 hours into trails in the sky 1 and I understand now what people meant by "slow".

I disagree on that, it's not "slow", i find it, uh... hmm, "meandering"? It's not slow, but it ain't fast that's for sure. I want to say the game is "aimless" but that descriptor doesn't feel right either. Anyway my point is i understand now why people drop this for being "slow".

I don't know if i'll continue it, it feels like i'm playing a very well-written, VERY charming prologue to the part 1 of a real adventure, and i get why people like it but i dunno, i just dunno if i have the energy to put 40 hours into sky 1, another 40 hours into sky 2, then another 40 hours into sky 3 just to get to the Cold steel games which are the ones I actually want to play. It's a lot of reading... a bit too much.

I'm realizing now why DQ and FF series aren't direct continuations of previous games, it was a great decision on the part of square and enix back in the day to make each new game its own entity. If they had done it like the Trails games and made each previous game mandatory playing I don't think DQ or FF would have been nearly as long-lasting or successful.

 

[Kaivokz]

I don't know if i'll continue it, it feels like i'm playing a very well-written, VERY charming prologue to the part 1 of a real adventure, and i get why people like it but i dunno, i just dunno if i have the energy to put 40 hours into sky 1, another 40 hours into sky 2, then another 40 hours into sky 3 just to get to the Cold steel games which are the ones I actually want to play. It's a lot of reading... a bit too much.

Just play Cold Steel series. If you like the parts that relate to the TitS story, you'll be more motivated to get through them later.

It's not like this is a masterpiece of literature and spoiling parts of TitS is going to be a tragic loss or something. The strength of the series is world building and you'll get to experience the world whatever series you decide to play first.

 

[Jinn]

I disagree on that, it's not "slow", i find it, uh... hmm, "meandering"? It's not slow, but it ain't fast that's for sure. I want to say the game is "aimless" but that descriptor doesn't feel right either. Anyway my point is i understand now why people drop this for being "slow".

Totally understand this, and am sure most people felt that way going into it. "Prologue" is absolutely an excellent classification, because it's not only the prologue for SC and 3rd, but really for the entire series. It's not a game about the plot being pushed forward, it's a game about introducing the player to not only Liberl, but Zemuria at large. Characters, countries, overarching plots, technology. It's all worth playing through, though. I struggled with it myself, but once I broke through the barrier and got invested in the world building, it was a joy to play (until the penultimate chapter of SC, which was admittedly a slog). FC does pick up more momentum near the end, and pretty much carries it through SC. I have to ask, are you playing on Normal? Because if so, you're missing out on some of the most challenging and rewarding turn-based combat around.

I really think people skipping the Sky trilogy is a damn shame, and would never really recommend it. But again, if you simply can't bring yourself to, you'd probably feel compelled to return to them once you got a couple games into Cold Steel. And don't forget about the Crossbell duology. There's a reason why they are considered the pinnacle of the series by many.

 

[aweigh]

Yeah I'm on normal.

 

[jungl]

trails of sky does not respect the players time the same way dragon quest 7 doesn't. Its a very boring saturday morning cartoon plot and dragon quest 7 with its rpg maker quality scenarios are equally bad.

 

[Urthor]

trails of sky does not respect the players time the same way dragon quest 7 doesn't. Its a very boring saturday morning cartoon plot and dragon quest 7 with its rpg maker quality scenarios are equally bad.

I actually agree with this obvious bait, but honestly it is true of all JRPGs.

Not respecting player time is an epidemic, I don't have many more summer vacations for three playthroughs of the same game left in my life thanks.

I love this series but I would not play a JRPG, any sort of JRPG, without Cheatengine frameskip. Even when I had infinite summer break that's still true.

DQ11 was very, very, very bad offender with a lot of junk combat and many of the Final Fantasies, far worse than Trails in the Sky, but it's true for Trails as well. The most recent JRPGs are getting better but obviously not so much a game from 2004.

So i'm about 25 hours into trails in the sky 1 and I understand now what people meant by "slow".

I disagree on that, it's not "slow", i find it, uh... hmm, "meandering"? It's not slow, but it ain't fast that's for sure. I want to say the game is "aimless" but that descriptor doesn't feel right either. Anyway my point is i understand now why people drop this for being "slow".

I don't know if i'll continue it, it feels like i'm playing a very well-written, VERY charming prologue to the part 1 of a real adventure, and i get why people like it but i dunno, i just dunno if i have the energy to put 40 hours into sky 1, another 40 hours into sky 2, then another 40 hours into sky 3 just to get to the Cold steel games which are the ones I actually want to play. It's a lot of reading... a bit too much.

The pace definitely is slow in the older games and although the internet circlejerks playing through the early ones, Cold Steel is designed to be an onboarding point so you can just skip to a more modern game if you want and it's not super bad.

Part of the enjoyment of the entire series absolutely is supposed to be walking up to NPCs, pressing A and getting a cool conversation you actually enjoy reading. Peak storyfag levels of enjoyment.


But it absolutely does switch from "wow I am literally delivering errands in a cool rural area" to "omg overarching super plot with science fiction/fantasy plot points" fairly quickly. Much more of the later in Cold Steel games I feel as they've realised people have less patience.

 

[aweigh]

anyone who dislikes DQ7 dislikes jrpg. it's one of the best ones ever made.

 

[HoboForEternity]

broke through the barrier

get over the barrier*

 

[jungl]

there plenty of jrpgs respect player time like suikoden, shadow hearts even monster trainer games like digimon world where plot moving forward at good pace. Trails on the other hand Saturday morning cartoon dialogue and copy pasted dungeons. Dragon quest 7 and the dragon quest franchise itself is made for japanese school children that come home from school so its made to waste your time and be basic. Only with the later dragon quest titles do they consider "okay we need to up the quality now and not just make this shit for our school kids".

 

[aweigh]

I've never understood how anyone can dislike DQ. Oh well.

Anyway, I've firmed my resolve: i'm going to finish Trails in the Sky 1 and then begin Cold Steel 1.

 

[Kaivokz]

I really think people skipping the Sky trilogy is a damn shame, and would never really recommend it. But again, if you simply can't bring yourself to, you'd probably feel compelled to return to them once you got a couple games into Cold Steel. And don't forget about the Crossbell duology. There's a reason why they are considered the pinnacle of the series by many.

The pace definitely is slow in the older games and although the internet circlejerks playing through the early ones, Cold Steel is designed to be an onboarding point so you can just skip to a more modern game if you want and it's not super bad.

Part of the enjoyment of the entire series absolutely is supposed to be walking up to NPCs, pressing A and getting a cool conversation you actually enjoy reading. Peak storyfag levels of enjoyment.

I played TitS when it came out on PSP for around 20 hours and, while I enjoyed it, it wasn't engaging enough to be saved from inevitable real-life distractions. I honestly still remember the drudge of slowly walking through bland environments that all looked the same while trying to do hunts or something... a man can only walk down so many roads with the same exact orbal lights... In the past couple of years I have finished Cold Steel 1 and 2 and got a lot of enjoyment out of them (with fast-forward functionality). I probably wouldn't have been able to if I had tried to force myself through TitS first with no other exposure to the series.

Haven't felt like I was in the dark in regards to cold steel's story at all and 2 feels like a pretty good impetus to play Ao/Zero; you see a lot of what is happening around Crossbell and you know something of its fate, but what exactly went down is not really explained—it's ancillary to the story of class 7. Knowing the context and getting teased little bits of information makes the idea of playing through that segment of history from the perspective of a police officer in Crossbell appealing.

I haven't played 3 yet, but I heard it has some strong ties to TitS. Might be more motivated to play them after I finish ToCS series.

 

[Jinn]

I've never understood how anyone can dislike DQ. Oh well.

Anyway, I've firmed my resolve: i'm going to finish Trails in the Sky 1 and then begin Cold Steel 1.

Hope you return to the Sky trilogy again someday, and definitely the Crossbell Duology. I think Trails in the Sky 3rd and Trails from Zero are my favorites of the series so far (just about to start Trails to Azure).

I played TitS when it came out on PSP for around 20 hours and, while I enjoyed it, it wasn't engaging enough to be saved from inevitable real-life distractions. I honestly still remember the drudge of slowly walking through bland environments that all looked the same while trying to do hunts or something... a man can only walk down so many roads with the same exact orbal lights... In the past couple of years I have finished Cold Steel 1 and 2 and got a lot of enjoyment out of them (with fast-forward functionality). I probably wouldn't have been able to if I had tried to force myself through TitS first with no other exposure to the series.

Haven't felt like I was in the dark in regards to cold steel's story at all and 2 feels like a pretty good impetus to play Ao/Zero; you see a lot of what is happening around Crossbell and you know something of its fate, but what exactly went down is not really explained—it's ancillary to the story of class 7. Knowing the context and getting teased little bits of information makes the idea of playing through that segment of history from the perspective of a police officer in Crossbell appealing.

I haven't played 3 yet, but I heard it has some strong ties to TitS. Might be more motivated to play them after I finish ToCS series.

Again, I totally understand why people have a hard time getting into Trails in the Sky. Go ahead and search my prior posts in this thread, and you guys will find me saying much of the same as you did. But if you keep reading them, you'll find the exact points in the game that it all kind of clicked. Another thing with playing the games that I seemingly do differently than a lot of other people is take occasional breaks from them, then come back after a week or two refreshed and excited to dive into the world again.

I've always been a firm believer that RPGs - let alone JRPGs - are not meant for those who lack patience. I feel that TitS is a testament to that, and have only ever felt each subsequent installment greatly enhanced by every prior game. That feeling continues to snowball, and makes every new Trails game I play that much more enjoyable than the last. It's a feeling I've never experienced in a series of games before, so it's why I continually try to urge people to try it out for themselves.

 

[Kaivokz]

I've always been a firm believer that RPGs - let alone JRPGs - are not meant for those who lack patience. I feel that TitS is a testament to that, and have only ever felt each subsequent installment greatly enhanced by every prior game. That feeling continues to snowball, and makes every new Trails game I play that much more enjoyable than the last. It's a feeling I've never experience in a series of games before, so it's why I continually try to urge people to try it out for themselves.

Do you think you would have had a similar experience if you started with ToCS and then moved on to Ao/Zero and TitS? I have the feeling that TitS and Ao/Zero will be more enjoyable because of the contextual information about the world, too, but I can't say as I haven't played them again yet.

 

[Jinn]

Do you think you would have had a similar experience if you started with ToCS and then moved on to Ao/Zero and TitS? I have the feeling that TitS and Ao/Zero will be more enjoyable because of the contextual information about the world, too, but I can't say as I haven't played them again yet.

It would be a different feeling, I think, but I could actually see myself maybe getting more invested in at least FC than I was the first time I played it if I had play a couple of the Cold Steel games first. Though I also feel like there are certain connections from ToCS 1 and 2 that I wouldn't want to miss having not played through the Sky trilogy first. I would definitely say that Crossbell benefits too much from TitS for it to make sense to go straight backwards from ToCS.

It's hard to say, but really if you can find a starting point in the series that you like, you should go for it. I'd almost urge aweigh to set aside FC right now, but with the full intention of returning to it after playing through ToCS 1 and 2. That way, he could pick up FC halfway through, maybe have a little more investment in Zemuria, enjoy his time exploring Liberl, and play through from SC, to 3rd, to Crossbell Duology. You'd have to have a heart made of stone to not want to continue on to SC after the ending of FC. To me, once this world gets its hooks into you, you're going to just want to savor every moment you're in it, because there are only so many titles available. So I can't see how someone who got invested in the world wouldn't want to go back and enjoy more of it. Unless they are a graphics whore or something.

 

[aweigh]

Don't get me wrong it's not like i'm not enjoying TITTIES 1, it's just that when I had the mentality of "goddamn, and I have to play SC and The 3rd after before finally getting to the one that actually interested me" it was making me not want to play any of the games at all.

Like I said, it's the first time I finally understand why disconnected titles in the same series is actually good; i had never given it much thought before but it really is very good that FFs and DQs are disconnected mostly from each other. The anxiety I get from knowing I have to play X amount of games in order to be able to enjoy another one is not something I can easily dismiss, and I'm not the only one who gets that. It's very psychologically taxing because, for example, even if I'm enjoying something I'm currently doing in TITS 1 the thought of knowing i have to play X and Y thing afterwards makes it feel like homework, like a chore, I dunno it's hard to explain.

It wouldn't be such a big deal if it was 1 or 2 titles, you know a trilogy or something, but it's Tits 2, Tits 3, Crossbell 1, crossbell 2, and THEN I have the privilege of starting Cold steel 1, which will have 3 more after it... it's a bit much. It starts to make you resent playing it cos it feels like work you don't want to do, no matter how charming it is, and truth be told it's not that charming. As for why Cold steel piqued my interest whereas Tits doesn't as much, simple the presentation. Tits is so drab... even the menus are bad. The copy-paste environments is a real thing as well. I mean, even something like Final Fantasy 6 on SNES has better presentation, and that's a game several generations behind. The art in Tits 1 is simply not that good.

I'm also not a fan of the pseudo-SRPG layer that the battles have in Tits. It's acceptable but I find that it adds little to the experience and only ends up adding busywork to the flow of the combat. I would much rather it had a more DQ-ish, Wizardry-ish abstraction of front and back row and just left it at that, i don't like SRPG busywork in my JRPGs, i like that to stay in my SRPGs where it can flourish and not be an afterthought.

EDIT: I do like the way Quarts, Orb slotting/order and Arts/spells work, tho. I enjoy that very much. Have had fun getting it just right in order to unlock spells. Hell, I almost wish the Notebook didn't tell you what unlocked what, or didn't spell it out completely just to have a little fun finding "hidden" spells.

 

[Jinn]

Don't get me wrong it's not like i'm not enjoying TITTIES 1, it's just that when I had the mentality of "goddamn, and I have to play SC and The 3rd after before finally getting to the one that actually interested me" it was making me not want to play any of the games at all.

You really don't need to play all the prior games first. You'll be able to figure things out, or at least get by. Each sub-series is essentially self-contained, but each of the other sub-series lend to a satisfying sense of place and understanding in the world. It's a major draw of the series, and if it's not something you're interested in, you'll probably be fine playing just Cold Steel, but the series as a whole might just not be for you.

Also, several of those games that you listed before Cold Steel 1 are simply better games, in terms of gameplay, characters, setting, and storyline. But you should just jump in where your interest was piqued and not let it get to you. Maybe you can return to the earlier titles and not find them as "drab" as you did when you first tried.

 

[HoboForEternity]

i found a better artwork and logo for Azure

 

[Jinn]

'm also not a fan of the pseudo-SRPG layer that the battles have in Tits. It's acceptable but I find that it adds little to the experience and only ends up adding busywork to the flow of the combat. I would much rather it had a more DQ-ish, Wizardry-ish abstraction of front and back row and just left it at that, i don't like SRPG busywork in my JRPGs, i like that to stay in my SRPGs where it can flourish and not be an afterthought.

I also don't really think you'd see it this way if you were playing on Hard. Being in command of the battlefield is vital on Hard in even just normal encounters, whereas the battlefield is simply an obstacle to move over in Normal. On that note, if you want to get any good gameplay out of Cold Steel, you should play on at the very least Hard, if not Nightmare.

 

[HoboForEternity]

aweigh

yeah it's not so strict that you HAVE to play all the prior one before going to the newer series. the build up works both ways. without spoiling it too much , i went from sky -> steel 1/2 ->Zero/Ao

Ao basically spoiled the climax of steel 1 and steel 2 basically spoil the climax of Ao, but when i played Ao, it works both ways. in fact i appreciate how much they planned, at least the main stories really are well planned so far. i was impressed by Ao's mention of cold steel events pretty accurately, and steel give the same rundown to Ao, etc ,etc.

this might change in the future as the newer games are alot more interconnected, but as for you're safe imo starting with everything.

 

[StaticSpine]

Spoiler

Visiting Hamel/end of the first ToCS III chapter = so cool!

 

[Deleted member 7219]

i found a better artwork and logo for Azure

I’m not a fan of the logos. They look a bit cheap and a bit too G.I. Joe

 

[rashiakas]

Just finished CS3. Was there ever an explanation why everyone follows Osborne like lemmings? Did I miss that, or is "he has a lot of charisma" really supposed to explain why almost everyone thinks its a good idea to follow him? Aside from that, game was gud, cant wait for part 4.

 

[Shadenuat]

aw Tita is not in my party of misfits directly
i want Tita in my party now. with giant cannon.