Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[fantadomat]

Why are you guys trying to min/max WoX? Pretty much no matter what you do the game will become a cakewalk shortly after Red Dwarf Mines. Just grab some lemonade and plenty of gas and enjoy the lawnmower ride, who cares about party comp?

It could be tricky for inexperience players to get water magic mastery. I normally go for invisibility and run toward the exit tunnel . The eyes and Minotaurs could be annoying at low level.

 

[Dzupakazul]

It could be tricky for inexperience players to get water magic mastery. I normally go for invisibility and run toward the exit tunnel . The eyes and Minotaurs could be annoying at low level.

Magic schools aren't a thing in WoX. In fact, the whole post sounds like it belongs in MM6, what with eyes and minotaurs.

Why are you guys trying to min/max WoX? Pretty much no matter what you do the game will become a cakewalk shortly after Red Dwarf Mines. Just grab some lemonade and plenty of gas and enjoy the lawnmower ride, who cares about party comp?

Eh, theorycrafting about the most effective parties is kinda fun, especially since you can then consciously add some suboptimalities because you know the system. For instance, given that the best WoX parties are characterized by a heavy melee/frontliner presence (due to more attacks per round and the scaling with buffs), you could arguably try and go against the grain with a comp like PNAASS to see how a "heavy artillery" setup would fare.

 

[fantadomat]

It could be tricky for inexperience players to get water magic mastery. I normally go for invisibility and run toward the exit tunnel . The eyes and Minotaurs could be annoying at low level.

Magic schools aren't a thing in WoX. In fact, the whole post sounds like it belongs in MM6, what with eyes and minotaurs.

Why are you guys trying to min/max WoX? Pretty much no matter what you do the game will become a cakewalk shortly after Red Dwarf Mines. Just grab some lemonade and plenty of gas and enjoy the lawnmower ride, who cares about party comp?

Eh, theorycrafting about the most effective parties is kinda fun, especially since you can then consciously add some suboptimalities because you know the system. For instance, given that the best WoX parties are characterized by a heavy melee/frontliner presence (due to more attacks per round and the scaling with buffs), you could arguably try and go against the grain with a comp like PNAASS to see how a "heavy artillery" setup would fare.

What the fuck is wox? ....Fuck just remembered that the whole game is world of xeen. I assumed he was talking about MM7 because of the dwarf mine reference. My bad,still he e pretty right the MM games are pretty easy. WoX is very easy if you begin at the light side.

 

[Edmund Spenser]

Why are you guys trying to min/max WoX? Pretty much no matter what you do the game will become a cakewalk shortly after Red Dwarf Mines. Just grab some lemonade and plenty of gas and enjoy the lawnmower ride, who cares about party comp?

Most of the fun I derive from the MM games is busting them wide open through optimal play!

 

[fantadomat]

After the popamole called deadfire and its shills i decided to detoxicate myself with something good . Have anyone here seen those fuckers in the game?

I think that every FPS MM game a few arena enemies that you never see in the game.

 

[Lacrymas]

So, here's the deal - recently I finished Might and Magic X, I was utterly shocked that I enjoyed it because I usually don't "get" blobbers. Played the most obvious party of Warmonger, Bladedancer, Druid and Rune Priest, Rune Priest is OP. I'm sad they won't make another M&M soon/ever. Anyway, since I discovered some kind of love for blobbers, I want to try out some others. I was thinking of playing M&M6 next, but was wondering whether it won't be better to start from Xeen. The problem with that is I watched the beginning of a let's play to get a general sense of what's it like and I found it ...not very attractive. The first town you begin in is samey corridors that you have to hunt through to kill all the mobs, same with the dwarf mines after that. So, my questions are - what is the appeal of Xeen? If I begin directly from M&M 6, anyone have some tips for me outside of the usual "get everyone bow skill and someone should have identify and repair"?

 

[fantadomat]

Lacrymas i would recommend starting with mm 6 if you don't like the feel of xeen. For skills i would recommend to have merchant on expert on everyone early as possible and later on master on everyone,saving money is important,later levels cost a lot of money,you could burn trough a million in levelling. Identify items on one guy at expert early and master later,expert repair and later on master repair on all the guys.Bow skill on all of them as early as possible no need to be expert/master. Expert on air and fire magic and mastery of water as early as possible its mastery is around 69 points,pump all the horse shoes in the wizard.

For max XP i would recommend getting master learning as early as possible and getting a teacher and instructor hirelings on level 1 or 2. You could check peasant's profession by right clicking on them,they do change it on reload. A viable strategy is park yourself on with a good view of several peasants,save,check for needed npc,if not found reload.

Also you could do powerful black potions that give permanent stat boost from the start,you could check out some wiki to see the combinations if you want. Also at the starting town there is a hidden teleport that could give you a big stat boost and a secret dungeon.

Most important spells are wizard eye,sparks,fire blast,town portal,loyed's beacon and fly.

The game could be pretty hard for a first timer,if you do find it too hard try out MM8.

 

[MajorMace]

So, here's the deal - recently I finished Might and Magic X, I was utterly shocked that I enjoyed it because I usually don't "get" blobbers. Played the most obvious party of Warmonger, Bladedancer, Druid and Rune Priest, Rune Priest is OP. I'm sad they won't make another M&M soon/ever. Anyway, since I discovered some kind of love for blobbers, I want to try out some others. I was thinking of playing M&M6 next, but was wondering whether it won't be better to start from Xeen. The problem with that is I watched the beginning of a let's play to get a general sense of what's it like and I found it ...not very attractive. The first town you begin in is samey corridors that you have to hunt through to kill all the mobs, same with the dwarf mines after that. So, my questions are - what is the appeal of Xeen? If I begin directly from M&M 6, anyone have some tips for me outside of the usual "get everyone bow skill and someone should have identify and repair"?

MM6 is filled with dungeons everywhere. Downside is these dungeons are littered with trash mobs in every single room. Some of 'em consist of big open rooms with pretty much nothing in it. It's a very weird trip, though I liked it even after playing it a few years ago (so it's not nostalgia talk) because I just like myself some party-based hack n slash action, but it's objectively not amazing.
Puzzles are also much weaker in mm6 than in the former ones. I feel like the transition to 3D had some p.annoying consequences regarding the dungeon design.
MM1-5 is where you should go if you liked MMX, it's not really the same thing (MM1-5 feel bigger, and their dungeons are generally more varied, their systems are also closer to D&D) but then again, MM6 is absolutely nothing like it as well. Even MM1&2 are still more interesting to explore than most party-based hack n slashers I've played, and it doesn't limit you (well, besides the astral plane) in your exploration, given you can get passed the very monotonous "graphics". Isles of Terra or WoX is the best option.

Also, yeah, MMX got and gets booed, but it's a fairly good game. I don't like its systems though.
ps: if you want to play mm6, there's a mouselock unofficial patch. Strongly recommended.

 

[Grunker]

MM6 is filled with dungeons everywhere. Downside is these dungeons are littered with trash mobs in every single room. Some of 'em consist of big open rooms with pretty much nothing in it. It's a very weird trip, though I liked it even after playing it a few years ago (so it's not nostalgia talk) because I just like myself some party-based hack n slash action, but it's objectively not amazing.
Puzzles are also much weaker in mm6 than in the former ones. I feel like the transition to 3D had some p.annoying consequences regarding the dungeon design.
MM1-5 is where you should go if you liked MMX, it's not really the same thing (MM1-5 feel bigger, and their dungeons are generally more varied, their systems are also closer to D&D) but then again, MM6 is absolutely nothing like it as well. Even MM1&2 are still more interesting to explore than most party-based hack n slashers I've played, and it doesn't limit you (well, besides the astral plane) in your exploration, given you can get passed the very monotonous "graphics". Isles of Terra or WoX is the best option.

Also, yeah, MMX got and gets booed, but it's a fairly good game. I don't like its systems though.
ps: if you want to play mm6, there's a mouselock unofficial patch. Strongly recommended.

Lacrymas MMX is pretty disliked by most MM-fanatics round these parts including but not limited to Sceptic and Darth Roxor, though I liked it in a 6/10 kind of way (and deffo count myself a huge M&M-fan as well). It is however unquestionably very far from older M&M titles both Xeen and MM6-8. So even if you liked X don't expect something exactly similar from older titles.

 

[Lacrymas]

I know it's very different. I just used it as a stepping stone to blobbers in general because I had a feeling I was missing out on something and I had to prep myself up with a somewhat dumbed down, but still enjoyable blobber. I managed to "get" blobbers through it, so I don't think I'll have any trouble getting into the other M&Ms now that that's over with. It's not a terrible game, though, it could've been better, especially the Ashan setting hurts it a loooooot, some of the design choices are questionable as well, but it works and I enjoyed it. I'm interested in reading what people didn't like about it, though.

 

[Tito Anic]

Bros after finishing AoD i am thinking about first World of Xeen playthrough. Need some directions, hints how to enjoy this game(party, skills, etc).

 

[Sceptic]

MMX is pretty disliked by most MM-fanatics round these parts including but not limited to Sceptic

Looks like someone forgot about the whole must-buy-must-play drama.

I liked MMX a lot, I gave the game a beating in my review over things that I think it should've done better, but my overall impression was still very positive. Certainly more than a 6/10, though as you may know I don't do ratings.

You're absolutely right that it's nothing like any of the older games though, and depending on what Lacrymas liked or didn't like about it he may not care much for the rest of the series. If you're in MMX for the combat then don't even bother with anything other than MM1-2, and even then. But if you liked the exploration aspect, then MMX is by far the weakest, and you're in for a treat with the others. Incidentally I completely disagree with Fantadomat and MajorMace. The major attraction and what has distinguished the series from anything else is that sense of exploration, going out into a huge outdoor world filled to the brim with unique encounters or items or quests. You're always on the verge of finding something interesting and unique. No other series put the emphasis so strongly on this aspect, even to the detriment of others (combat was never the series' strong suit, and let's not talk about story). The way the games push for exploration differs markedly between MM1-5 and MM6-8, but both groups do it extremely well using their technology and mechanics. I reject the notion that MM6 is somehow inferior - I and other fans of the series consider it to be the best in many ways, and its world-building and dungeons are certainly on top of anything else in the series, never mind outside.

Really, I always tell people to start with MM1, because aside from the unimportant stuff like graphics, everything else about the game is excellent; exploration in it is fantastic and on par if not better than WOX, while it (and MM2) has the best combat of the series. The only potential hurdles to the game for someone unused to the conventions are saving and automapping, and both of these have modern alternatives with DOSBox and Where Are We.

 

[MajorMace]

I completely disagree with Fantadomat and MajorMace. The major attraction and what has distinguished the series from anything else is that sense of exploration

Feels like we're in agreement, though.

Even MM1&2 are still more interesting to explore than most party-based hack n slashers I've played, and it doesn't limit you (well, besides the astral plane) in your exploration

What I meant to say here is that even the very first games in the series were compelling in terms of exploration. Ie. it's a big aspect of these games.
I felt like precising this specifically because, coming from MMX, he might think that traditional m&m have a similar structure. They don't, they're very much open right off the bat.

I reject the notion that MM6 is somehow inferior - I and other fans of the series consider it to be the best in many ways, and its world-building and dungeons are certainly on top of anything else in the series, never mind outside.

But when you come from MMX, the structure of MM6 - because he got into blobbers through the former before potentially jumping in the latter - needs to be addressed.
We can't just say "hey it's all about exploration, the rest doesn't matter" and simply omit completely to precise that MM6 places 500 mages and 300 goblins scattered around the starting city, ready to be arrowed to death. It's very different from MM1 which has the prison and sorpigal's dungeon to get things moving nice and smooth.
It wasn't a judgement on which one is the best overall, it was a judgement on which one would be the best as a follow-up, because that's what the question was.
I rest my case, I'm fairly certain former M&M are a better idea than MM6-7-8, in that regard.

 

[Lacrymas]

I found the combat a bit repetitive in M&MX, even though the game had a lot of different enemies, they kinda felt the same and you went through the same routine with pretty much all of them. After getting the Rune Lords' special rune on the floor, everything was a cakewalk. That's not to say I didn't enjoy it, I did, but it wasn't anything special or tactical. I played on Warrior difficulty btw. I liked the exploration, finding the different trainers for the different skills, finding Legacy gear, getting the different blessings of the dragons, the different classes having access to different skill levels, only Freemages being able to cast Dark Magic, some bosses being really intimidating at first, some of the puzzles (those that were logical mainly, there was a really stupid one where you had to match tiles on the floor to make columbs drop down, that was shit and time-consuming), a lot of classes that are different from each other, etc.

What I didn't like is the setting, the random gear, Legacy gear being just better versions of the random gear (sometimes not even that, there was a random spear I found that was better than the Legacy one just because it gave an extra attack), the writing was serviceable if a bit basic and simplistic, the puzzles that weren't logical, a lot of spells being muscled out by just a few others, etc. The positives outweighed the negatives, though.

What about any of the Wizardries? Are they a good continuation after M&MX?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Bros after finishing AoD i am thinking about first World of Xeen playthrough. Need some directions, hints how to enjoy this game(party, skills, etc).

You read the manual, you start the game, you have fun. No other directions are necessary.

What about any of the Wizardries? Are they a good continuation after M&MX?

Yes, in fact I'd say MMX is kinda sorta more similar to Wizardry than to M&M because it's more focused on combat. Nevertheless, you really should check out Wizardry 8. It's basically the best introduction to blobbers you can have along with Xeen. Although whereas Xeen is a good introduction because it's rather easy and pretty, Wiz8 is a classic combat-oriented blobber with lots of character fiddling and high difficulty - what makes it a good introduction is that it's extremely user-friendly and well-documented in-game (meaning pop-up hints etc).

 

[Lacrymas]

Isn't Wizardry 8 plagued by respawns and randomized loot/itemization?

 

[Darth Roxor]

good job, you've just described the blobber genre

"plagued", smh

 

[octavius]

Respawns can (depending on several factors) indeed be a plague, but randomized loot?

 

[Lacrymas]

Killing a boss and getting a Generic Sword of Randomness +1 isn't very exciting.

 

[octavius]

Knowing you get Legendary Sword of Awesomeness +1337 is not very exciting either.

Ideally the quality of the drops should be tied to the power of the enemy, like in MM1-2.
So you may get something poor, but you could also get something super duper. That's exciting; not knowing beforehand.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Lacrymas]

Nah, it makes all items feel the same, so definitely not for me. Unless there are unique items, but they just drop randomly, it's not ideal but it's bearable.

 

[MajorMace]

Aren't you confusing random loot and procedural shit lacrymas ?
Here's a weapon list for Wiz8 to give you an idea. Slight spoils I guess.

 

[Lacrymas]

So there is no [Prefix] [Base Weapon] of the [Suffix] shit?

 

[Grunker]

I found the combat a bit repetitive in M&MX, even though the game had a lot of different enemies, they kinda felt the same and you went through the same routine with pretty much all of them.

Don't expect great combat out of the series. For that you go to Wizardry. M&M is all about the exploration. I sort of agree with you about MMX' combat yet would still say it has better combat than my favourites of the games. So... yeah.

Looks like someone forgot about the whole must-buy-must-play drama.

Since I don't know what you're talking about, apparantly I did

I liked MMX a lot

Really, huh, I couldda swore. And re-reading your review, honestly it's not even tough love, it's just tough

Hmm, maybe I was thinking about Shadenuat?

Certainly more than a 6/10, though as you may know I don't do ratings.

Neither do I, but I was trying to summarize.

exploration aspect, then MMX is by far the weakest

No doubt.

Really, I always tell people to start with MM1

Hm, I think that's... overeager. I always recommend WOX, because if they're in for that, maybe they'll actually play MM1 at some point, whereas starting with MM1 might turn you off forever.

My personal favourite is MMVII, and I think if you're someone who isn't into old games (yet) or blobbers, that's the best starting point.

Isn't Wizardry 8 plagued by respawns and randomized loot/itemization?

Wizardry 8 is amazeballs in nearly every department - especially character customization - but constant, slow fights will start to wear off their welcome buy the end unless you're a Codex Blobber Hero that just cannot get enough ever. It might be a little light in the itemization department I suppose (especially compared to something like IE-games or Pillars), but nothing too bad.

Also install Wiz8Fast or you will kill yourself.