Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Grunker]

TL;DR:

If you feel like rollin' with the big boys, go play Wizardry 8. If you like blobbers, it's probably the best there is objectively.

If you want more M&M, I'd start with WoX and try VII - For Blood and Honor if WoX doesn't tickle your fancy.

 

[Darth Roxor]

constant, slow fights will start to wear off their welcome

^ pictured: scrub that doesnt take dudes with critical strike

I'd start with WoX and try VII - For Blood and Honor if WoX doesn't tickle your fancy.

mm6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mm7

 

[Shadenuat]

Lacrymas install the mod made by someone on this forum for Wiz8, it has even more unique items with set locations for classes that need them.

Only some items generate randomly, lotsa loot is not random. No sufix prefix items.

Random monsters, can avoid, can use teleports, can cast teleport spell, so on. Not to mention first 20 hours everything you meet is deadly new and super fun to kill.

As for MMX, it's a game where it's somewhat fun to build parties and see them grow, and see monsters explode, but everything else is p. popamole and below other M&M games. The worst being shitty setting with bad nu aesthetic.

I enjoyed it because my blobber thirst was at it's peak at a time, just having character portraits on the screen and spells blasting on monsters made my hands shake and click click click. Shit I clicked through 2 full playthroughs + some extra to discover class combinations that's how bad it was. Wizardry8 syndrome is worse than smoking.

I once had my sister visit me and she said, you know, been many years, and every time I visit you you play this game (points at mook with giant's sword crushing some psi-fish).
"Damn" I think. And chained my official russian 3-5(?) CD release somewhere in the basement since then. Better not think about it... ...I'm already thinking about it... ...

 

[Lacrymas]

So, everyone is suggesting I go with Wiz 8 first before tackling any of the other MMs?

 

[Grunker]

Yes.

^ pictured: scrub that doesnt take dudes with critical strike



mm6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mm7

Not even disagreeing 1% and outlining this disagreement in my post will deter your repitition?

Ach, there can be no covenants between men and lions

 

[fantadomat]

Incidentally I completely disagree with Fantadomat and MajorMace.

Ok..... i am drinking and you are getting drunk mate. I do agree with you mate,MM games are mainly about exploring a wonderful world.

Killing a boss and getting a Generic Sword of Randomness +1 isn't very exciting.

MM games are about exploration,the itemisation is random but it doesn't feel bad. You always get that is worth the monster you killed. The loot is well tiered and you never feel bad about it. Also there are not many bosses in those games,the difficulty comes from the level design and enemy's skills and numbers.

So, everyone is suggesting I go with Wiz 8 first before tackling any of the other MMs?

Not really, WIZ8 for me is worst than all MM games,it have incredibly slow and tedious battles and respawning enemy. Some trash battles later on can take up to 10 minutes only to be replaced with another tedious battle.

I would recommend trying out MM6 first.

 

[Dzupakazul]

My 2 grosze to this conversation:
A friend of mine is going through the M&Ms in a chronological order and although they struggled to finish 1 and 2 (though they did, to their credit) and upon hitting M&M3 they said they managed to finally get "hooked". As in, they think about playing the game at work, and there's always the drive to explore and find something new, solve a new puzzle, see something interesting, get that new level up.
And since the Xeen games are, in most aspects, iterative improvements of M&M3 (minutiae and personal preference notwithstanding), I think you might end up enjoying Xeen once you get out into the world, complete the first few tasks, and immerse yourself in the je ne sais quoi quality of daydreaming about finally learning the skills necessary to climb over that mountain, or waterwalk over this pond, or hacking through this piece of thick forest, or figuring out the cartographer's puzzle, or whatever.

 

[Sceptic]

mm6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mm7

Not even disagreeing 1% and outlining this disagreement in my post will deter your repitition?

I actually agree with both of you

I think MM6 is the better game, because it does the free-roaming exploration aspect better (and better than almost any other game), but MM7 is the better introductory game. It's easier, the mechanics are slightly more defined, the world is smaller and there's a better sense of where you need to go next for a smoother difficulty curve - all things (aside from mechanics - I think MM7's character system is the one area they undoubtedly improved on MM6) that make it a lesser Might and Magic but also make it much more noob-friendly.

Really, huh, I couldda swore. And re-reading your review, honestly it's not even tough love, it's just tough

In light of accusations of being a shill and of writing "a love letter to [my] friends at Limbic", reading this a few years later is quite funny

I think I can detach my ability to enjoy or have fun with something very easily from whether I think this thing is actually good, or what about it is not good. It's also why I could understand Roxor hating the game despite liking it so much myself.

Hm, I think that's... overeager. I always recommend WOX, because if they're in for that, maybe they'll actually play MM1 at some point, whereas starting with MM1 might turn you off forever.

Yes you're right. I think I tend to recommend MM1 to people who are already familiar with blobbers and old games, but as an introduction it really isn't the most friendly, that's true. Still, I'm tempted to go all Roxor and tell people to git gud

My personal favourite is MMVII, and I think if you're someone who isn't into old games (yet) or blobbers, that's the best starting point.

I'd say WOX is an even better one, especially since it does retain the turn-based aspect that Lacrymas liked about MMX. I think the biggest problem with WOX is that it does not get off to a great start with the mines, but the game gets exponentially better past this point, and the Darkside dungeons in particular are all great.

 

[Edmund Spenser]

Wiz8 is fantastic, but let's be honest guys: if you're not in the mood for 30 minute combats that can and will mess you up if you don't have skills ground to the proper level, you will find it extremely difficult. Wiz8 is a great addition to the genre, but it's undeniably more grindy and particular than any MM. MM6 is intuitive and requires very little grind, if any at all, if you're able to intuit the 'proper' path and don't go for higher level stuff. Wiz 8 requires skill training, whether that be getting into additional random combats or manually-casting-unlock-on-the-vault-in-Arnika style shenanigans. It also almost necessitates min/maxing due to the absolute power of Master skills and the inability to level them up quickly by the time you get them naturally.

If you play Wiz 8, don't level up your party to 5 until AFTER you reach Arnika, for instance. There are many other counter-intuitive factoids like this.

That being said, Wiz8 is a game I continually go back to, because it really rewards you for having metagame knowledge and experience. I fondly remember my Team Japan team (Monk/Samurai/Ninja/Bishop, no NPCs) and my all-melee team (Fighter/Valk/Ninja/Ninja/Bard/Gadget) and the game's robust mechanics enabled these (and any other goofy comp) really well.

Xeen is great, but you need to be comfortable with dated gameplay, graphics and UI screens. MM7 is an absolute amazing 'sequel' to 6 and improves upon it in a variety of ways (while only backtracking in a few minor ones). 6 is probably the best pound-for-pound contender in the entire genre.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Yeah MMX aint like Xeen or MM6/7/8. Play Wizardry 8, awesome game.

So there is no [Prefix] [Base Weapon] of the [Suffix] shit?

No, who told you that? We need to know who is spreading this false slander about Wiz8.

Also, you may want to try StarCrawlers, it gave me a MMX vibe though it's a bit simplistic and repetitive.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Wiz 8 requires skill training, whether that be getting into additional random combats or manually-casting-unlock-on-the-vault-in-Arnika style shenanigans. It also almost necessitates min/maxing due to the absolute power of Master skills and the inability to level them up quickly by the time you get them naturally.

If you play Wiz 8, don't level up your party to 5 until AFTER you reach Arnika, for instance. There are many other counter-intuitive factoids like this.

This is all total nonsense.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Sceptic
Thanks for the Where Are We mention, I had no idea it existed. I'm going to replay M&M1 with this pretty soon. Seems great, reminded me of Goldbox Companion.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

I want to get into might and magic. Where do I start? Is might a magic 3 a good place to start?

 

[Edmund Spenser]

This is all total nonsense.

You're saying that a new player lingering in the Temple for a while and getting level 5 willl have an easy and intuitive time getting to Arnika?

I may overstate the necessity of min/maxing but the level scaling at the beginning and mid-game can be extremely punishing if you aren't prepared for it.

I want to get into might and magic. Where do I start? Is might a magic 3 a good place to start?

If you like older games, yes. If you demand newer gameplay, 6 is far and away one of the best RPGs of this type.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Pretty get this:

https://af.gog.com/game/might_and_magic_6_limited_edition?as=1649904300

This gets you all games up to and including 6. Thousands of hours of fun. I recommend starting with World of Xeen (it's the combined 4 and 5, Clouds of Xeen and Darkside of Xeen). It's very fun and very playable, graphics are bright and full of personality.

Isles of Terra (MM3) is also very good but inferior to Xeen IMO. The first two games in the series are great too but they are much more archaic and considerably harder. However, combat is more interesting in them than in later entries.

Might and Magic 6 is very different from previous games in the series (it's free roaming instead of grid-based) but it's also amazing, with some of the best dungeons you'll ever see. The world is also very impressive and full of secrets and stuff to do/find.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Grinding doesn't seem to be neccessary in W8 unless you are doing one of the "power" strategies (caster-hybrid samurai, ninja-bishop-ninja fairy,dwarven monk and etc).

I decided to start in world of xeen even though III seems to have the same graphics and menus.

 

[MajorMace]

Sceptic
Thanks for the Where Are We mention, I had no idea it existed. I'm going to replay M&M1 with this pretty soon. Seems great, reminded me of Goldbox Companion.

What's the difference with grid cartographer ? I take it it's more than a mapping tool ?

 

[Grunker]

I think MM6 is the better game, because it does the free-roaming exploration aspect better (and better than almost any other game), but MM7 is the better introductory game. It's easier, the mechanics are slightly more defined, the world is smaller and there's a better sense of where you need to go next for a smoother difficulty curve - all things (aside from mechanics - I think MM7's character system is the one area they undoubtedly improved on MM6) that make it a lesser Might and Magic but also make it much more noob-friendly.

THANK you, exactly what I was trying to say but apparantly had difficulty expressing.

(Incidentally the bit about the character system is why I find myself enjoying VII more even though I think VI is probably better objectively due to depth, but I also rate character customization higher than any other aspect of an RPG)

 

[Scroo]

Worlds of Xeen is probably the easiest M&M and a very good place to start. The exploration is fantastic and rewarding and the combat is easy to get into, altho that makes it super simplistic. I like it better than M&M 6 which comes closely afterwards tho

Also to anyone asking how to start World of Xeen, just use the default party and play. Also the difficulty settings don't really matter, on adventurer you simply meet a few less mobs and I think they have less hp, that's it. Warrior is not really more difficult, you just get more xp due to more stuff to kill.

Also everyone here is lying, if you want to start with Wizardry start with Wizardry VI it's what I did years ago and I loved it and I think it's the best Wizardry. Wiz 8 has probably the best character development system of all time but the combat will destroy you, it will suck the life out of your soul like seriously these endless troops of trashmobs with 2 billion mobs in it jesus. Also the (limited) level scaling feels shitty too like level scaling does in every game. Saying level scaling is never an issue is a bit misleading, you can feel the level scaling so it clearly IS an issue. It's light and limited scaling so it's not oblivion levels of idiocy but it is still there and level scaling is never healthy for an rpg.

Actually if you start with Wizardry 8 you maybe might not get into the older Wizardries later on since you are now used to all the quality of life improvements and stuff which would be a shame since Wiz 6 & 7 are amazing games worth playing and Wizardry 7 is objectively probably one of the best blobbers of all time.

Sorry for the randomness and bad grammar in this post lul

 

[Arkast]

No one's actually going to link Where Are We?

 

[Mychkine]

Athough my first RPG was M&M3 and the first RPG I ever completed was M&M5 (without Clouds, much harder this way even if I didn't knew that at the time), I never managed to get myself into playing M&M1 or 2 (or wizardry for that matters). More generally, I have great difficulties at playing games older than those I started playing with (around 1990-1991). I can immerse through abstract ASCII graphics used in roguelikes; but CGA and early EGA games are a solid turnoff. Adding to this that I like when the keyboard commands are doubled with mouse support (makes for an easyier learning curve), are there workarounds that could make enjoy all those classics more?

Where are we? seem like a good start, but are there any ways around the graphics and controls? Do the Mac version work with the tool?

 

[Great Deceiver]

What's the difference with grid cartographer ? I take it it's more than a mapping tool ?

It has more elements than Grid Cartographer, although the user interface is kind of clunky. It's more similar to Goldbox Companion.

It's got an automap functionality (which progressively reveals pre-constructed maps from a database, with preset notes, PoIs, etc.) but you can add things by hand, too.

It also has a combat companion which gives you information at a glance, such as party status (HP/MP/condition) and most importantly, spell lists with complete descriptions whenever you cast something. This is a significant time saver.

Last night I played through Sorpigal and the experience was very smooth. It takes some time getting used to the interface, and you have to disable high DPI scaling if you're using higher resolutions, but otherwise it's great. Can't wait to play some more.

 

[Micormic]

I want to get into might and magic. Where do I start? Is might a magic 3 a good place to start?

6-7-8 are all easy to get into. 6,7 are both good fun, 8 isn't as good. Each is substantially shorter then the last( 6 is like 130-150 hours, 7 is like 60-70 hours and 8 is only like 20-25 hours long)

1 I imagine is very dated and probably hard to get into

4-5 were very good for the early 90's, if you don't mind a locked screen where you can only turn 90 degrees you'd probably like them


9 sucked overall and isn't worth playing unless you have nothing else.


Never played 2,3 or 10.





Alot of people here are mentioning the wizardry games of course. The only ones I played were wiz 7 and 8 and I found them both extremely boring and tedious, 8 much more then 7 which seemed typical for the early 90's, just not my style.

 

[MajorMace]

It also has a combat companion which gives you information at a glance, such as party status (HP/MP/condition) and most importantly, spell lists with complete descriptions whenever you cast something. This is a significant time saver.

That sounds awesome. Having this info without navigating through several screens and/or the cluebook is such a qol improvement.
I'm too far in in book I right now using grid cartographer, but when I start the sequel, I'll give this a try. Thanks for the tip.

Talking about book I, this thread made me reboot my 1 year old playthrough yet again and I got a question for vets

Spoiler

One of the lord gives a quest to find the fabled fountain in castle dragadune, thing is I haven't found any such fountain in castle dragadune. Is this a typo and he actually sends me to the fabled building of gold or should I search harder ?

 

[Great Deceiver]

Spoiler

One of the lord gives a quest to find the fabled fountain in castle dragadune, thing is I haven't found any such fountain in castle dragadune. Is this a typo and he actually sends me to the fabled building of gold or should I search harder ?

Spoiler

The fountain is in the first floor of the ruins in the NE corner if I remember correctly. I don't remember there being any particular trick to it.