Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[catfood]

Good game, but not as good as the first I think. It had a few design decisions that I didn't like. First of all is the race/class hatred that monsters have. Granted it's only really relevant in the beginning of the game since you can get powerful quite early on, but in those early levels it's a nightmare. My advice either create a full dwarf party or don't add any dwarfs at all since he'll spend most of his time getting knocked out by goblins.

The next few aspects are more sever however. I don't understand why they changed the graphics. The game was very colorful in MM 6, but now they had this really drab, almost de-saturated color palette. Bleah! Also since we're on the subject of graphics, why the fuck did they mess up the portraits? Seriously the portraits in MM 6 are some of the best I've seen. Now they added these prosperous monstrosities. I get that they wanted some portraits for the demi-humans, but come on! How hard could it have been to modify them in Photoshop a bit?

But the worst part was the change to the skill system. In MM 6 not everyone could learn every skill, but every skill could be raised to master level! In MM 7 not only is the skill set for each character limited (as it should be) but the class also dictates the level of mastery that you can get in that skill. Meaning that character development is predetermined from the get go because in most cases you absolutely want grand mastery. There is little point in investing into any skill that you can't get to at least mastery. Investing into something that you can only upgrade to expert is just pointless. I guess maybe for certain skills like perception + disarm trap it might be useful to get them to expert level since traps are only dangerous for low level characters, but in most cases it's pretty much pointless.

The dungeons were also nowhere near as good as the ones in the previous game. There is simply no dungeon here that can rival Tomb of Vaarn or Castle Darkmoor. The dungeons where more a bit more interesting in their themes and designs, but ultimately none of theme felt epic like the ones in MM 6.

The story was a bit better this time around. I liked that you had a choice in the middle of the game which is also reflected in the UI. That was a nice touch and a call back to HOMM 2. Speaking of which it was nice how they tied in the story of MM 3. Too bad the ending was kinda anticlimactic.

PS: great soundtrack but that was to be expected

 

[lukaszek]

I don't understand why they changed the graphics. The game was very colorful in MM 6, but now they had this really drab, almost de-saturated color palette.

for me its about landscapes being empty. For example in mm6 grass would have plenty of weed/flowers. In mm7 you have bare pixels instead

 

[Kayato]

No idea, sorry. I could read the C++ files for the algorithm on ScummVM's Xeen engine, but who's to say if it comes from the real original EXE from the 90s?
All I know is that at value 100 (0x64) all physical damage is set to 0

gog.com/forum/might_and_magic_series/im_about_to_make_world_of_xeen_balance_patch

https://github.com/scummvm/scummvm/tree/master/engines/mm/xeen

Thanks for the reply.

Just finished World of Xeen with the third ending, I have to say that I really liked it. I preferred the world of MM4 but that of MM5 also had its reasons. I appreciated all the gameplay improvements from MM3. I was pleased to review puzzles involving dungeon design. The crosswords were amazing!
As a criticism I have to mention the "equipment breakdown". In addition to being the main cause of interruption of a dungeon, I expected it to be reported in some way, I always have to remember to see the inventory (because I noticed with the Power Shield active there is no change in the AC). Not to mention the lack of a “fix all!” button. or better yet a spell.
Speaking of the plot:

Spoiler

I understand that the main plot, which links all the chapters, between Corax and Sheltem always appears only at the end, a bit as if it were something marginal. If I'm not wrong then they have nothing to do with the events of MM4 or am I wrong?

 

[Sceptic]

Spoiler

I understand that the main plot, which links all the chapters, between Corax and Sheltem always appears only at the end, a bit as if it were something marginal. If I'm not wrong then they have nothing to do with the events of MM4 or am I wrong?

Spoiler

It links indirectly. If you've been to the bottom of Dungeon of Death (one of the optional dungeons exclusive to the WOX dual-game setup) you've seen the machines that produce more Lord Xeen clones. Presumably this is where the Lord Xeen of MM4 came from, and Sheltem is responsible for him and the others being made. It's Might and Magic though, there's a definite attempt at continuity across all the games but the overarching story doesn't always make complete sense.

 

[Kayato]

Spoiler

I understand that the main plot, which links all the chapters, between Corax and Sheltem always appears only at the end, a bit as if it were something marginal. If I'm not wrong then they have nothing to do with the events of MM4 or am I wrong?

Spoiler

It links indirectly. If you've been to the bottom of Dungeon of Death (one of the optional dungeons exclusive to the WOX dual-game setup) you've seen the machines that produce more Lord Xeen clones. Presumably this is where the Lord Xeen of MM4 came from, and Sheltem is responsible for him and the others being made. It's Might and Magic though, there's a definite attempt at continuity across all the games but the overarching story doesn't always make complete sense.

Spoiler

I've been there, besides the cloning machines for Lord Xeen there were the control systems for the elements so it made me think of the "X.E.E.N. control center." therefore something already present before the arrival of Sheltem. The key to the dungeon was in Sandro's hands, which is why I see a fairly weak connection.
But it could also be that he released a Lord Xeen to keep the other half busy, after all he should know all these worlds well.
I was expecting some revelation or connection in the ending of MM4.

 

[DaveO]

Xeen has the blobber style, and MM6 has the best real-time/turn-based experience. I enjoyed MM8 mainly for the bounty hunting that gives you millions of experience points when you do all three levels of the quest.

 

[lukaszek]

mm8 solo was a fun experience. Tried few times to do mm6 and its such a chore that I cant continue.
With dungeons being so large and game throwing crowds at you - it takes forever to clear. Had a good attempt with druid but eventually I wanted armageddon to clear trash outside + resistances were an issue in garrick forge and other locations like it(heavy on warlocks)
Sorc run took me way further. Ive cleared kriegspire but I was already dead inside there. I really like that castle but it did take forever. I just dont want to push through darkmoor and varn.

Obviously solo runs are metagaming heavy. In mm8 it was pretty smooth progression, I could feel my character improving basically all the way, with ogre stronghold being the biggest struggle to overcome.
In mm6 I rush for early armageddon, dark mastery, then quickly for mordred, then archmage promo... and then there is brain dead chore of clearing all content until you lose it

 

[Storyfag]

I just dont want to push through darkmoor and varn.

But Darkmoor wants you. It yearns for you. Darkmoor is love, Darkmoor is (un)life.

 

[lukaszek]

I just dont want to push through darkmoor and varn.

But Darkmoor wants you. It yearns for you. Darkmoor is love, Darkmoor is (un)life.

honestly I always found varn worse

 

[catfood]

I just dont want to push through darkmoor and varn.

But Darkmoor wants you. It yearns for you. Darkmoor is love, Darkmoor is (un)life.

honestly I always found varn worse

Those are the best dungeons in the game. Stop being a homosexual.

 

[DaveO]

I am so getting my ass handed to me playing Might & Magic merge mod as a Minotaur Ranger. I may have seriously underestimated how savage the game is solo...

 

[lukaszek]

I am so getting my ass handed to me playing Might & Magic merge mod as a Minotaur Ranger. I may have seriously underestimated how savage the game is solo...

it does balance enemies in weird way. For example when i started in mm6, ive compared that baa followers are MUCH stronger around castle ironfist

 

[Storyfag]

Just don't turn the enemy scaling on?

 

[lukaszek]

Just don't turn the enemy scaling on?

but its supposed to kick based on your level when you migrate between worlds, while im talking about fresh new character

 

[Gerrard]

Decided to give MM7 another spin after abandoning one playthrough long ago. I must be near the end because I have reached the part where the game just becomes silly and you're just holding attack while waiting for dragons to die.

And I have 10+ untrained levels.

 

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Then don't waste your time and go straight to the Devil's Hive (if you haven't done so already) and then the underwater mission to finish the game. Kiilling Dragons is entirely optional. That goes for MM6, too.

 

[Covenant]

Honestly, if you've already played Arcomage in every tavern, you may as well just restart now and begin playing Arcomage all over again.

 

[Mauman]

Then don't waste your time and go straight to the Devil's Hive (if you haven't done so already) and then the underwater mission to finish the game. Kiilling Dragons is entirely optional. That goes for MM6, too.

I can't imagine NOT turning Eofol into a wasteland.

.....

Ok, MORE of a wasteland.

 

[Storyfag]

A pity they reduced the amount of Devil types for MM7. Xenofex should be a winged one.

 

[Gerrard]

Holy shit that underwater part and having to unequip all your gear was super cringe.

Most bullshit enemy of the game goes to Queens of the Dead who just instantly cast of Dragon Breath upon seeing you, doing several hundred points of damage, sometimes knocking out both casters, and having to cast Dispel Magic every 5 seconds to remove Pain Reflection.

By the way, are there supposed to be some force fields visible here and it's an issue with the hardware renderer, or are they always invisible?

Spoiler

Honestly, if you've already played Arcomage in every tavern, you may as well just restart now and begin playing Arcomage all over again.

I don't understand what some people see in this minigame, it's mostly RNG of what cards you get. I lost several times trying to destroy the opponent's tower, not getting any (good) attack cards for 10+ turns, and once again realizing I should've just went for building my own tower instead.

Now I feel like playing Heroes IV again.

 

[Average Manatee]

I have a deep philosophical question I've been ruminating on for too long. How does everyone distribute their horseshoes in MM6?

I have considered 3 sensible strategies:

1. Distribute them evenly across everyone. All characters gain equal amounts of skill points. This is "fair".
2. Give them all to the character you have that has the strongest bonuses (generally gonna be a light or dark master for MM6 unless you're doing something weird). Gives in theory the strongest overall party bonus (after all even 1 point in light is buffing everyone more than multiple points in most skills).
3. Give them all to the one character you have mastering most or all of the miscellaneous bullshit like merchant/identify/repair/disarm/perception. This helps avoid them falling behind. Arguably more "fair" in a way than #1 so they aren't left behind in combat.

I'm genuinely curious for some reason about how many people do each strategy or whether there's other logical ways to distribute them.

Yes I am autistic.

 

[Storyfag]

2. Give them all to the character you have that has the strongest bonuses (generally gonna be a light or dark master for MM6 unless you're doing something weird). Gives in theory the strongest overall party bonus (after all even 1 point in light is buffing everyone more than multiple points in most skills).

This is my typical choice. Dark Master, obviously.

But nowadays I'm only ever playing MMMerge. Still dumping all the horseshoes on the Dark Master

Very rarely I give a horseshoe or two to someone who's just missing those few points to another skill mastery level.

 

[cthscr]

Just don't turn the enemy scaling on?

but its supposed to kick based on your level when you migrate between worlds, while im talking about fresh new character

No, it makes low level monster stronger on any map load.

Ok, im gaming MMmerge mod hard and cleared out New Sorpigal and moved into Ironfist, but i have this wierd bug where i cant enter the guilds in town without crashing, and only the guilds, the rest is fine. Anyone had this error?

Not reproducible. Is savegame available?

 

[Luzur]

Just don't turn the enemy scaling on?

but its supposed to kick based on your level when you migrate between worlds, while im talking about fresh new character

No, it makes low level monster stronger on any map load.

Ok, im gaming MMmerge mod hard and cleared out New Sorpigal and moved into Ironfist, but i have this wierd bug where i cant enter the guilds in town without crashing, and only the guilds, the rest is fine. Anyone had this error?

Not reproducible. Is savegame available?

I kinda found the problem, if i go to a guild im not a member of and try to enter, game crashes, but if i become a member and enter, it works just fine.

 

[UndeadHalfOrc]

MM5:
Is there a way to get the treasure hidden inside walls, in the south-western part of the Necropolis Sewers?
Teleport and Etherealize do not work.
The "Where Are We" built-in map says it contains 220000 gold and a bunch of great Lev7 items.