The most unique and the most complex lvl-up systems in crpg-s?

[Outmind]

I have decided that i need an rpg where i can spend 10 minutes at the lvl up screen in order to choose what to do next and how to best customize my character. So, in order to do this, i'd like your guys opinions on the best, most complex lvl up systems in rpg-s regardless of platform and age (i don't shy away from jrpg-s, as long as they are translated into English). Keep in mind that i've played most of the well known ones (arcanum and any dnd game would certainly qualify).

Also, what do you think were the most unique lvl up systems? Love it or hate it, FF had a few really unique ways of customizing your character, so anything in the lines of FF or even something better would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Ebonsword]

I think that Neverwinter Nights 2 actually has a pretty sweet level up system. With all of the crazy multi-classing, prestige classes, feats, and skills available, there is a ton of customization you can do, especially with spell casters.

I'd probably suggest Storm of Zehir over vanilla NWN2 since you can create your whole party in it.

 

[ManjuShri]

Not so much levelling up, but Wizardry 8 will have you at the character creation screen for quite a while.

 

[bonescraper]

ToEE with the Circle of Eight mod. Pure sex.

 

[hoverdog]

Darklands. 'Nuff said. A really unique, complex and "realistic" character system, one of the best (if not THE best) crpg systems ever created.

 

[empi]

Darklands, RoA series

 

[made]

DSA/RoA gets the award for the most complex and fun character development, but at the same time the most frustrating levelup process.

 

[Outmind]

Thank oyu for all the replies.

I have played all the neverwinters and toee (best incarnation of dnd combat in a pc game EVER!), as well as the excellent wizardry 8.D
a
rklands seems like a good choice, especially since i enjoy tactical rpg-s.

What are DSA and RoA? I might have already played the games, but i am unfamiliar with the abbreviations, so i don't know.

 

[ManjuShri]

The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and Realms of Arkania series.

 

[Outmind]

I did play Drakensang, but have yet to try the various expansions. As for Gothic, it never sat well with me.

 

[ManjuShri]

Realms of Arkania isn't Gothic. RoA is one of the most overlooked acclaimed RPG series of its day (by fans) and some say even the best.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realms_of_Arkania:_Blade_of_Destiny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realms_of_Arkania:_Star_Trail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realms_of_Arkania:_Shadows_over_Riva

 

[markec]

Realms of Arkania is great, you can also try Academagia: The Making of Mages, you are guaranteed to spend atleast half hour on the character creation.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Realms of Arkania

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2365.0.html

 

[Eyeball]

Twilight 2000? I didn't care much for the game, but I remember the character creation system being extremely involving, with a ridiculous number of skills of all varietes and lots of different ways to customise each party character based on what "past career" choices you made.

 

[mondblut]

ITT, a lot of people confuse levelling up with character creation. Bonus points for namedropping T2k, a game where, I am fairly certain, there is *no* character development of any sort, much like in Megatraveller.

Ontopic, RoA is probably the most complex out there, albeit not in a good way. Levelling up works like that: "So which of these 50 skills is NOT completely useless? Hmm, I'll make a blind guess and pick this one... oops, I failed an improve roll! Oops, failed another one! Guess there won't be any levelling for me today".

I'd keep recommending Aethra Chronicles, its character development was fun and engaging.

 

[MMXI]

Twilight 2000? I didn't care much for the game, but I remember the character creation system being extremely involving, with a ridiculous number of skills of all varietes and lots of different ways to customise each party character based on what "past career" choices you made.

Numbers! Statistics!

ITT, a lot of people confuse levelling up with character creation.

Indeed. But having said that, most cRPGs seem to be geared towards heavy initial customisation. It's mainly the Diablo clones that focus more on development.

 

[Baron]

Wizardry : Providing Grounds of the Mad Overlord... back when leveling up was Shut up and take what you're given. Luck/Fate played a bigger part of that game's char development than free will.

My first char to achieve the necessary attributes for a ninja was a priest. From a life of peace, contemplation and healing others to artfully embedding poisoned sai into other's ear holes.

 

[Krraloth]

Mega Traveller 2 is pretty sweet, it uses a sytem somewhat randomized but very interesting. It's a pity that some of the skills have no use, originally the game was built to have many different games (like FRUA minus the good custom missions) but it sadly failed so if you play it, read carefully the manual because it will tell you which are useless.
A pity that I'm not into automatic combat or I would have loved it.

 

[eric__s]

I know the Megatraveller and Twilight 2000 computer games were made by the same company, but are the pen and paper character creation mechanics so similar? They were pretty much identical in the games - even how certain jobs had different term lengths and everything. Is this a case where a company reused the same character creation code to save time or are they really exactly the same?

 

[Krraloth]

Twilight 2000 is modern day while Megatraveller 2 is sci-fi, whether the system is the same or just built upon the same ruleset of the pen & paper and just tweaked, I don't know.

 

[MMXI]

I know the Megatraveller and Twilight 2000 games were made by the same company, but are the pen and paper character creation mechanics so similar? They were pretty much identical in the games - even how certain jobs had different term lengths and everything. Is this a case where a company reused the same character creation code to save time or are they really exactly the same?

MegaTraveller, Twilight 2000 and Space 1889 are all GDW pen and paper RPGs. Paragon Software developed cRPGs for all three. I'm not 100% sure whether the pen and paper systems are as similar to each other as the computer games are, but I do believe this is the case.

 

[SerratedBiz]

Betrayal in Antara had a pretty interesting mechanic for improving your characters. Ala in Krondor, you'd tag a certain number of skills for advancement but, instead of rising through use, they'd develop while you're resting. I believe you could tag up to five skills but, logically, the more you had meant they'd advance slower. Spells had to be researched in the same way by coupling several factors like target (self, touch), effect (heal or damage) and so on. I never had enough patience with the game to see it past the first few chapters but the character progression was very enjoyable.

The NWNs have their degree of complexity. It's perfectly feasible to fuck up your character though you'd have to -really- try, as it usually tells you exactly what's best for your character. But if you're into min/maxing and think it through you can end up with some diverse builds and such. Nothing unique about the process, though.

The character creation in Wizardrys had their charm but, in keeping with the thread's intent of -leveling- mechanics, random level ups are always shitty. They serve no purpose other than tempting people to savescum their way to building their character the way they wanted, whereas a simple x points per level up system would do much better. I never played the early ones, however, and fondly remember 8's proper point system.

 

[eric__s]

That's cool, I had no idea Megatraveller and Twilight 2000 were supposed to complement each other mechanically. I just looked it up and it turns out they were even designed by the same guy. That makes sense I guess.

 

[mondblut]

That's cool, I had no idea Megatraveller and Twilight 2000 were supposed to complement each other mechanically. I just looked it up and it turns out they were even designed by the same guy. That makes sense I guess.

That's not really true. Traveller was originally designed by Marc Miller. It was Traveller: New Era (3rd edition, Megatraveller being 2nd) that ditched the original Traveller rules in favor of a version of T2k rules, both being designed by Frank Chadwick. But they were already pretty similar before, which is natural for games from the same company, true.

 

[Jasede]

Realms of Arkania

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2365.0.html

*sigh* You really don't need anymore brofists, stop being agreeable.