The original Tomb Raider, its remake, and the loss of subtlety

[MasterofThunder]

I actually went with Brahma Force. What a total hidden gem. Prestigious Japanese FPS mech game in 1996!

Inventory system:

Equippable modules, weapon upgrades, weapons all have multiple fire mode settings:

fully customizable HUD, controls etc:

Rather vertical, expansive, interactive, moderately exploration-based level design:

Fast-paced combat, super jumps (with cooldown), classic doom-style quick strafing, no z-axis auto-aim (unless using heat-seekers), wide variety of enemies, shield mechanic (manually use to defend against missiles etc, w/ cooldown or energy use).

Periodic electronic communications providing story context and gameplay hints in classic 90s style

Epic FMVs tell the story with a mature cyberpunk tone:



Just when I thought I'd seen it all, the 90s continue to deliver. This game even has door codes you have to listen to audio logs to discover.
The System Shock game no one has ever heard of. I'm on level 5 or so and having a total blast.

I too enjoy games where half the screen is covered with nonsensical UI elements!. How did you know?.

 

[Ash]

I too enjoy games where half the screen is covered with nonsensical UI elements!. How did you know?.

1. Very little of it is nonsensical at all. It largely all has purpose. One or two elements are excessive, no big deal.
2. You can turn it all off, not that you should. Almost unheard of in its time.
3. It's kind of the point. That's how GUIs were in the mid 90s. I guess you've never seen The Terminator. Or played System Shock. Or heard of the rule of cool.
4. Place is overrun with uncultured faggots and/or degenerates.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

Relevant video:

They didn't fail anything, the old games have poor controls and shitty hitscan enemies.

I played Tomb Raider Legend recently and it's much better than the old games.

Ignoring that the LUA-era games have worse controls and a worse camera, I'm not so sure that those games have better combat. I can't remember if the LUA games had hitscan or not, but they weren't something that changed Tomb Raider's combat from being there to...anything else.

 

[JarlFrank]

The Legend trilogy has smoother combat, but it's not necessarily better. Like the originals, Lara locks onto enemies and you just have to maneuver around to avoid their attacks while holding down shoot.
Except this time you have to reload your guns occasionally, and there's a target reticle around the enemy (because having more intrusive UI elements was the style at the time), and sometimes enemies charge you and you have to perform a QTE to avoid them and land a critical hit, and basically it combines all the worst game design ideas of the mid 00s into a combat system that's more annoying than the original.

 

[lightbane]

Devs hating the people who worked in the product before is a thing that became more common by the late 00s. It became more prominent outside of gaming by mid-2010s, with nu-Star Wars killing Han Solo while the bad guy rants about killing the past.
Pettiness everywhere.

 

[Semiurge]

Relevant video:

They took stole a profitable (despite the flop AoD) franchise and reshaped it into something that no longer resembles the original. Instead of doing its own thing, nuTomb Raider is now an amalgamation of ALL popular trends with this woke shit on top.

Devs hating the people who worked in the product before is a thing that became more common by the late 00s. It became more prominent outside of gaming by mid-2010s, with nu-Star Wars killing Han Solo while the bad guy rants about killing the past.
Pettiness everywhere.

What do you expect when these devs have an ideological hatred for the past and all works that came from it?

 

[Spike]

Relevant video:

They took stole a profitable (despite the flop AoD) franchise and reshaped it into something that no longer resembles the original. Instead of doing its own thing, nuTomb Raider is now an amalgamation of ALL popular trends with this woke shit on top.

Devs hating the people who worked in the product before is a thing that became more common by the late 00s. It became more prominent outside of gaming by mid-2010s, with nu-Star Wars killing Han Solo while the bad guy rants about killing the past.
Pettiness everywhere.

What do you expect when these devs have an ideological hatred for the past and all works that came from it?

Regarding Han Solo, I think Harrison Bored himself asked to be killed off because he hates being known for Star Wars lol.

 

[TC Jr]

People still don't understand what type of game System Shock is, if they compare it with doom.

I get it's just marketing speak but my biggest pet peeve is "inspired by doom and quake", really, nigger? Choose one or the other.

 

[Semiurge]

The history is erased, and the erasure forgotten.

 

[Ezekiel]

I don't know why I was informed that the first game had less action. I just reached Egypt (City of Khamoon). There's a lot of shooting. So, just because she has a small HUMAN body count, only kills two or three? Agree that there should be almost no humans to maintain that sense of isolation. But monsters are a better replacement than animals. In a world where studios still wanted to make good games, the order of frequency for Lara would be monsters followed by animals followed by humans.

As for all the flora, I understand the creators' desire for variety. The remaster explains it with holes in the ceiling, where light and moisture enter. There can be a balance, in a world where studios still want to make good games. Isolated outdoor environments, before deep lifeless caverns and tombs that nothing penetrated since ancient times.

Remembering the rope in the anniversary remake (which I played to 97% completion in two playthroughs years ago), Lara doesn't need any such tools. So many possibilities with only her legs and arms. Only ropes I'd want to see would be in the environment, not to be taken along. The pickaxe in the new trilogy is even worse. Replaced platforming with slow climbing along linear, conspicuous paths. No tools!

 

[Spike]

I don't know why I was informed that the first game had less action. I just reached Egypt (City of Khamoon). There's a lot of shooting. So, just because she has a small HUMAN body count, only kills two or three? Agree that there should be almost no humans to maintain that sense of isolation. But monsters are a better replacement than animals. In a world where studios still wanted to make good games, the order of frequency for Lara would be monsters followed by animals followed by humans.

As for all the flora, I understand the creators' desire for variety. The remaster explains it with holes in the ceiling, where light and moisture enter. There can be a balance, in a world where studios still want to make good games. Isolated outdoor environments, before deep lifeless caverns and tombs that nothing penetrated since ancient times.

Remembering the rope in the anniversary remake (which I played to 97% completion in two playthroughs years ago), Lara doesn't need any such tools. So many possibilities with only her legs and arms. Only ropes I'd want to see would be in the environment, not to be taken along. The pickaxe in the new trilogy is even worse. Replaced platforming with slow climbing along linear, conspicuous paths. No tools!

Just finished the new remaster (lol) for 1 and I agree, I like the new little openings to let light/moisture in. Although I did wonder, huh, if this is a hidden tomb, I guess no one saw it from above through these big openings. But, these landscapes are vast (South America, Egypt) and there are tons of nooks and crannies, so even though there are some openings to these hidden places, they can still be obscure. Felt absolutely great to be playing a real video game again.

 

[Ezekiel]

I don't know why I was informed that the first game had less action. I just reached Egypt (City of Khamoon). There's a lot of shooting. So, just because she has a small HUMAN body count, only kills two or three? Agree that there should be almost no humans to maintain that sense of isolation. But monsters are a better replacement than animals. In a world where studios still wanted to make good games, the order of frequency for Lara would be monsters followed by animals followed by humans.

As for all the flora, I understand the creators' desire for variety. The remaster explains it with holes in the ceiling, where light and moisture enter. There can be a balance, in a world where studios still want to make good games. Isolated outdoor environments, before deep lifeless caverns and tombs that nothing penetrated since ancient times.

Remembering the rope in the anniversary remake (which I played to 97% completion in two playthroughs years ago), Lara doesn't need any such tools. So many possibilities with only her legs and arms. Only ropes I'd want to see would be in the environment, not to be taken along. The pickaxe in the new trilogy is even worse. Replaced platforming with slow climbing along linear, conspicuous paths. No tools!

Just finished the new remaster (lol) for 1 and I agree, I like the new little openings to let light/moisture in. Although I did wonder, huh, if this is a hidden tomb, I guess no one saw it from above through these big openings. But, these landscapes are vast (South America, Egypt) and there are tons of nooks and crannies, so even though there are some openings to these hidden places, they can still be obscure. Felt absolutely great to be playing a real video game again.

No no, I'm against the holes in the ceiling in the remaster. I play with the old graphics anyway, because the geometry meshes better with the low res textures and I want to beat the real Tomb Raider rather than someone else's interpretation. But you can still have plenty of flora and fauna, on your way to the deep cavern or tomb that nothing has penetrated since ancient times, or when you came out. Some places can have holes for air and light, but it wouldn't work with some of the really deep structures. Would make Lara more cartoon/stylized than photorealistic in a new game, so that you can get away with more of the unrealistic.

 

[JarlFrank]

The combat in TR1 can usually be trivialized by jumping or mantling up the right pillar and shooting the animals or monsters from a safe position. Just about a week ago I finished TR1 in the remaster without using medkits and only using pistols, and got the achievements to show for it. It was tough in some places, but absolutely doable if you simply reject the combat arenas and hop somewhere unreachable for the enemy.

This makes combat primarily a platforming challenge in a game that's all about platforming puzzles. The combat isn't good by any means, but the design of combat arenas almost always incorporating an easy way out if you spot it shows that the original devs were going for something deliberate here. There were some tougher areas to get through, but ultimately I found a nice safe spot for every enemy in the game. Melee enemies and the few humans that shoot guns at you, that is - the ranged Atlantis monsters throw projectiles that can easily be dodged by side-hopping, so for them you need to find an open area that allows constant side-hopping without hitting a wall.

Atlantean monsters with ranged attacks are often encountered in narrow areas so you have to look for a good spot to sideflip-shoot them from, which again shows that the devs put some thought into their placement.

 

[Ezekiel]

Those fucking mummies, FUCK.

The combat in TR1 can usually be trivialized by jumping or mantling up the right pillar and shooting the animals or monsters from a safe position. Just about a week ago I finished TR1 in the remaster without using medkits and only using pistols, and got the achievements to show for it. It was tough in some places, but absolutely doable if you simply reject the combat arenas and hop somewhere unreachable for the enemy.

This makes combat primarily a platforming challenge in a game that's all about platforming puzzles. The combat isn't good by any means, but the design of combat arenas almost always incorporating an easy way out if you spot it shows that the original devs were going for something deliberate here. There were some tougher areas to get through, but ultimately I found a nice safe spot for every enemy in the game. Melee enemies and the few humans that shoot guns at you, that is - the ranged Atlantis monsters throw projectiles that can easily be dodged by side-hopping, so for them you need to find an open area that allows constant side-hopping without hitting a wall.

Atlantean monsters with ranged attacks are often encountered in narrow areas so you have to look for a good spot to sideflip-shoot them from, which again shows that the devs put some thought into their placement.

But how many times did you save?

 

[Spike]

Those fucking mummies, FUCK.

The combat in TR1 can usually be trivialized by jumping or mantling up the right pillar and shooting the animals or monsters from a safe position. Just about a week ago I finished TR1 in the remaster without using medkits and only using pistols, and got the achievements to show for it. It was tough in some places, but absolutely doable if you simply reject the combat arenas and hop somewhere unreachable for the enemy.

This makes combat primarily a platforming challenge in a game that's all about platforming puzzles. The combat isn't good by any means, but the design of combat arenas almost always incorporating an easy way out if you spot it shows that the original devs were going for something deliberate here. There were some tougher areas to get through, but ultimately I found a nice safe spot for every enemy in the game. Melee enemies and the few humans that shoot guns at you, that is - the ranged Atlantis monsters throw projectiles that can easily be dodged by side-hopping, so for them you need to find an open area that allows constant side-hopping without hitting a wall.

Atlantean monsters with ranged attacks are often encountered in narrow areas so you have to look for a good spot to sideflip-shoot them from, which again shows that the devs put some thought into their placement.

But how many times did you save?

Haha. I agree, circle strafing handles most enemies, but the toughest combat challenge is in the Hive from Unfinished Business. Hoo, boy. I shotgunned them all and just managed them by strafing/kiting/wrangling them so they all wouldn't aggro at once. And some tankiness by just popping medkits etc. But you're right, combat is not a draw in itself, moreso just as an extra obstacle.

 

[Ezekiel]

Think it would be cool if in a new true Tomb Raider she was invulnerable to fire immediately after coming out of water, when you still see the wet effect on her skin. Jumping and running through, I mean.

 

[Ash]

So are you enjoying the game Ezekiel? Are you being a cheating degenerate (guides and save states)? Favorite level so far? Uncompromising, genuine 3D level design is a big factor of what makes these games legendary. Thoughts on the controls? Takes time to see it, but the controls are in fact very well done.

Well done for making the correct choice and emulating the PSX version.

 

[Ezekiel]

So are you enjoying the game Ezekiel? Are you being a cheating degenerate (guides and save states)? Favorite level so far? Uncompromising, genuine 3D level design is a big factor of what makes these games legendary. Thoughts on the controls? Takes time to see it, but the controls are in fact very well done.

Well done for making the correct choice and emulating the PSX version.

I'm 36 years old. I work. I abused the saves. The enemies and some of the traps become ridiculous.

Used a guide once. I opened the passage behind the waterfall in Lost Valley back in July and kept wandering around, knowing the switch I pulled had done something with the water, but just not finding the passage, too stupid or forgetful to mentally connect the waterfall. Finally looked it up two weeks ago. Such a small thing too, ugh.

Controls do what they need to do with the simple tile design. No complaints. Well, I'd rather have her run backwards than hop. Would make the combat less crappy. Hanging her from a ledge would work the same in that way. I should have stopped using the analog stick much sooner. Made me jump in the wrong direction so many times. Switched to the RetroFighters Defender (that I bought for pressure sensitivity in Metal Gear Solid 3) in level 6 or 7, for the large D-pad and its symmetrical position. R1 and L1 are slim, though. Could have used one of my DualShock 2s with the same adapter, now that I think of it.

Spoiler

No, I did not emulate. I just didn't use the new graphics. Sometimes I checked how they interpreted it with a simple press of Start, however. Like I said before, the original textures and simple geometry blend together better. Found the atmosphere in Atlantis creepier with the old textures. Felt more like being inside an organism.

Spoiler

Never expected to see such a hellish place in a Tomb Raider game. This game was edgy.

I respect it. Respected Tomb Raider II as well when I played it in 2017. Glad I now know the original.

 

[Ash]

I also work and starting to enter physical decline. No excuses filthy casual. Using a guide only once however is very respectable.

"Well, I'd rather have her run backwards than hop"

The hop is important for setting up run-ups when platforming. Use backflip for superior backward traversal. If you could backpedal and strafe, it would eliminate the need for acrobatics combat and therefore eliminate the saving grace (mechanically) of TR combat.

No, I did not emulate. I just didn't use the new graphics

But you are using extended draw distance it seems, the single most important new graphics to NOT use.

I respect it. Respected Tomb Raider II as well when I played it in 2017. Glad I now know the original.

 

[Semiurge]

I don't know why I was informed that the first game had less action. I just reached Egypt (City of Khamoon). There's a lot of shooting. So, just because she has a small HUMAN body count, only kills two or three? Agree that there should be almost no humans to maintain that sense of isolation. But monsters are a better replacement than animals. In a world where studios still wanted to make good games, the order of frequency for Lara would be monsters followed by animals followed by humans.

Compared to TR2 and TR3 the first game is much less hectic. TR2 resembles an action movie, and TR3 is a combination of both. TR4 is, shall I say, a return to the form of tomb raiding.

The combat in TR1 can usually be trivialized by jumping or mantling up the right pillar and shooting the animals or monsters from a safe position.

In TR1, yes. The following games feature more sophisticated enemy AI that makes them seek cover when they can't potentially harm Lara but Lara can harm them. In TR2 you can observe tigers lurking behind corners, waving their tails, until Lara steps back into their reach. That baiting tactic will become very familiar to players after TR1.

Think it would be cool if in a new true Tomb Raider she was invulnerable to fire immediately after coming out of water, when you still see the wet effect on her skin. Jumping and running through, I mean.

Most areas in these games with open flame have water so it might be too easy to exploit the feature, and besides open flame will still cause tissue damage even if you can't catch fire immediately.

Never expected to see such a hellish place in a Tomb Raider game. This game was edgy.

Yeah the pyramid is like a tzimisce flesh-castle on the inside.

 

[JarlFrank]

 

[Machocruz]

OG TR is one of those games where if someone complains too much about it, I just assume they are the problem, not the game. You can hardly find better when it comes to action-adventure, or immersive spelunking/navigation, and any that are better are mostly old at this point too (Thief, Arx Fatalis, Sands of Time. Dare I cite Demon's Souls as a more recent example?). Metroid Prime 1, maybe 2, was the last great action-adventure. Am I being hyperbolic? Maybe, but it sure felt like the end of something, the end of classicism in gaming so to speak. Remember, game design degeneracy would go full swing in the upcoming console cycle...

 

[Inec0rn]

Original games were better, about exploration, simple puzzles and skill based movement it was unpopular with retard gamers that can't figure out distance and timing a jump or roll key. Tomb raider died once they took Uncharted and reskinned it with Lara Croft. Kind of similar to Prince of Persia, the core mechanics again are skill based movement as well as an overall timer system to complete the game. Way to hard for a retard with controller in hand so they refactored it to another 3d action adventure title that virtually plays itself.

 

[Ash]

OG TR is one of those games where if someone complains too much about it, I just assume they are the problem, not the game. You can hardly find better when it comes to action-adventure, or immersive spelunking/navigation, and any that are better are mostly old at this point too (Thief, Arx Fatalis, Sands of Time. Dare I cite Demon's Souls as a more recent example?). Metroid Prime 1, maybe 2, was the last great action-adventure. Am I being hyperbolic? Maybe, but it sure felt like the end of something, the end of classicism in gaming so to speak. Remember, game design degeneracy would go full swing in the upcoming console cycle...

Sands of time is not better than Tomb Raider, not even close. Too damn linear, music is pretty bland (aside from the end track), the combat is somehow less meaningful than TR's, the level design and setting lacks the same degree of variety, nuance and grandiosity. It represents the downgrade in difficulty most early 2000s games suffered (decline but still barely acceptable, and then went on to become braindead in the late 2000s and beyond of course). The core platforming is pretty great but that's as far as my praise goes honestly.

Last great action-adventure? Ninja Gaiden (2004), Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth (2005), Resident Evil 4 (2005), Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams (2006). And yeah, Souls games too. Also assuming we are excluding Metroidvanias too, which is one of few genres that have maintained a fairly decent standard over the years, even if SotN remains the best in my eyes.

One thing is certain: 3D action-adventure since the late 2000s and beyond is utter garbage, aside from FromSoftware games if you count that.

 

[Spike]

OG TR is one of those games where if someone complains too much about it, I just assume they are the problem, not the game. You can hardly find better when it comes to action-adventure, or immersive spelunking/navigation, and any that are better are mostly old at this point too (Thief, Arx Fatalis, Sands of Time. Dare I cite Demon's Souls as a more recent example?). Metroid Prime 1, maybe 2, was the last great action-adventure. Am I being hyperbolic? Maybe, but it sure felt like the end of something, the end of classicism in gaming so to speak. Remember, game design degeneracy would go full swing in the upcoming console cycle...

Sands of time is not better than Tomb Raider, not even close. Too damn linear, music is pretty bland (aside from the end track), the combat is somehow less meaningful than TR's, the level design and setting lacks the same degree of variety, nuance and grandiosity. It represents the downgrade in difficulty most early 2000s games suffered (decline but still barely acceptable, and then went on to become braindead in the late 2000s and beyond of course). The core platforming is pretty great but that's as far as my praise goes honestly.

Last great action-adventure? Ninja Gaiden (2004), Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth (2005), Resident Evil 4 (2005), Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams (2006). And yeah, Souls games too. Also assuming we are excluding Metroidvanias too, which is one of few genres that have maintained a fairly decent standard over the years, even if SotN remains the best in my eyes.

One thing is certain: 3D action-adventure since the late 2000s and beyond is utter garbage, aside from FromSoftware games if you count that.

Very good picks for last great action adventure (NG is spot on, with Souls as you said, especially Demon's). But your lack of praise for Sands of Time is disappointing, sir. Fantastic game, some of the greatest and most unique 3d platforming with the elaborate wall run puzzles and challenges which does not get old over 3 games.