The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

[Wirdschowerdn]

DevKits are always more powerful (for debugging) than the final consumer SKUs.

jesus, Sony already CONFIRMED the CPU and GPU, we didn't know the clocks, now we know them

No they didn't confirm the GPU specifics, only that it is Navi based.

Now shut the fuck up already you uneducated brat.

 

[Makabb]

wow you win teh internetz

The only Navi GPU that AMD has is the 5700, PS5 will use a custom version of this which is codenamed 'Oberon', we didn't know the clocks which are confirmed now.

 

[OndrejSc]

It will cost 8 hundred. And it will have a built-in holographic projector.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

wow you win teh internetz

The only Navi GPU that AMD has is the 5700, PS5 will use a custom version of this which is codenamed 'Oberon', we didn't know the clocks which are confirmed now.

It could be RX 5500, that also boosts to 1850MHz

 

[Makabb]

wow you win teh internetz

The only Navi GPU that AMD has is the 5700, PS5 will use a custom version of this which is codenamed 'Oberon', we didn't know the clocks which are confirmed now.

It could be RX 5500, that also boosts to 1850MHz

5500 is a 1080p card, it would never run 4k.


Sony trailer for the audio, ps5 will feature a 3d audio chip.

 

[Makabb]

Next-gen shaping up to be a real game changer - ray tracing, 3d audio, super fast loading times with SSD, improved rumble on controllers, better online features, powerfull raw hardware.

Exciting.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Welcome to 2015!

 

[DalekFlay]

5500 is a 1080p card, it would never run 4k.

You think these consoles are going to run "AAA" games as native 4k consistently? Not looking for a sensible answer just gauging your autism.

 

[Makabb]

5500 is a 1080p card, it would never run 4k.

You think these consoles are going to run "AAA" games as native 4k consistently? Not looking for a sensible answer just gauging your autism.

xbone x is already running native 4k and it has the weak xbox cpu, ps4 pro is even weaker and it manages upscaled 4k.

So for PS5 it's just a matter if they will be running games on 30 fps or 60 fps 4k there.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

5500 is a 1080p card, it would never run 4k.

You think these consoles are going to run "AAA" games as native 4k consistently? Not looking for a sensible answer just gauging your autism.

At least the First-party studios should achieve it, for ambition's and esteem's sake. For most other studios though, optimization is teh hard and laziness will prevail again.

 

[DalekFlay]

In my experience developers are much more likely to add more pretties than to shoot for 4k native. I know some Xbox One X titles do, but that's with games designed around the base PS4, so they're just using extra grunt to boost resolution. If they're making them directly for the PS5 and Xbox4 then I'm not sure that's what they'll prioritize.

I'm not even sure they should be prioritizing that honestly, because I think 60fps (or more) is much more important, personally.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

4k with low settings and 20 fps- the stupidity of peasants is bottomless.

 

[hpstg]

Comparing dedicated hardware, with fixed specs and to the metal APIs, to any normal PC, is just retarded.

And it's unfair for the PC.

As a rule, consoles frame pace much better too. Not all frame rates are the same.

 

[DalekFlay]

As a rule, consoles frame pace much better too. Not all frame rates are the same.

First off, citation needed. Secondly, freesync/g-sync make this irrelevant. Thirdly... have you watched Digital Foundry style analysis videos? Loads of console games have frame pacing issues and consistent dips below 30. Lastly, it's fucking nuts people defend even a "stable" 30fps. Even 60fps feels sluggish to me now, once you experience high framerates there's no going back. It would be great for console gamers if developers embraced this, but they won't because screenshots sell games in their minds. You can defend the advantages of console gaming without pretending "locked 30fps!!!" is some kind of win.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Xbox One's already running a special version of Windows 10, with D3D12 as its API. Switch is running some version of Vulkan. And PS4 something similar. Like I've written in some previous post, it is no longer economical to go any "deeper to the metal" with modern architectures. Those nerdy hacks from the PS2/3 era are over. D3D12/Vulkan on PC should provide the same level of performance as their console equivalent provided the new game engines get everything out of it.

 

[hpstg]

First off, citation needed. Secondly, freesync/g-sync make this irrelevant. Thirdly... have you watched Digital Foundry style analysis videos? Loads of console games have frame pacing issues and consistent dips below 30. Lastly, it's fucking nuts people defend even a "stable" 30fps. Even 60fps feels sluggish to me now, once you experience high framerates there's no going back. It would be great for console gamers if developers embraced this, but they won't because screenshots sell games in their minds. You can defend the advantages of console gaming without pretending "locked 30fps!!!" is some kind of win.

A second lasts 1000ms.

For the hypothesis alone, let's suppose you might get 60fps delivered in the first 60ms, compared to a 60fps evenly delivered every 16.6ms.

Guess which one will feel like shit, and which one won't.

Consoles have been using other tricks too, like having vsync off, but trying to keep the tearing in the top and bottom sides of the screen, getting both the lower latency advantage of the lack of vsync, and the plus of not having visual tearing.

Nvidia's frame limiter (which you can activate via the Profile Inspector, use V2), does something similar, but still is not as good.

Locked, evenly paced 30fps with as minimal input lag as possible, is actually fine for most games that don't require reflexes. Would I prefer that they were locked at 60? Certainly, but then those boxes wouldn't be costing $399.

As for the new ones, I have high hopes. The biggest bottlenecks up to now were the CPUs and the storage, and it seems that Sony and Ms are addressing exactly that.

Prepare for horrendous PC ports, unless you have really good PCIe 4 storage, and at least a 12/24 CPU. A lot of gaming PCs would struggle to follow engines written for the tiny Jaguars, just because of the explicit targeting to the architecture, and the lack of threads. The situation will be horrible when both consoles ship with what is effectively really high end CPUs, with the highest end of storage.

The Digital Foundry is doing the Lord's work for the masses, but unless you're a developer, or lost your years in Guru3D and Beyond3D, parroting shit they don't even say, doesn't help much.

 

[soulburner]

Well, to sum up what I was posting here earlier and add a bit more to the discussion, here is my sort of a summary of what I expect:

- the massively increased processing power of the new consoles may mean that developers will focus on guaranteeing 60fps, at least in 1080p. Some games will probably be able to go for 4k and 60fps, but I think it will more likely be 30fps
- the processing power maybe won't eliminate, but greatly reduce frame pacing issues. A constant 30fps without frame pacing issues is surprisingly playable. I'm not saying it's good, but it's not an end of the world
- some console magicians will probably be able to squeeze pretty graphics at 4K and 60 Hz that PC players will envy, but mostly because it will be an exclusive
- some games will use ray tracing and look pretty, no doubt about it
- console users will piss themselves because the sudden switch from HDD to SSD will make their games install and startup/load much faster, something that's already a thing on the PC. The promises of "no loading screens" are bullshit, however, the large cache in the form of 24 GB of DDR4 memory might decrease all loadings a bit further than just an SSD would
- the architectural differences between the consoles and PC (low latency and fast 8 GB HBM is not a negligible thing) will cause a situation when many games will run slower on a similarly configured PC (let's say, a Ryzen 3700 and an RX5700), even if coded "right"
- additionally, the inability of programmers to properly code games for the PC (even though DX12 on the Xbox is not that different to DX12 on the PC, coders will still have a weird amnesia and make a DX11 renderer instead) will increase the gap between consoles and PC even further. Bad ports will become "badder", at least during the first months of the consoles' lives

So: the new consoles will be pretty cool and might give their users more constant framerates and better graphics. By how much, we shall see. Maybe the final effect will be such that there will be less differences between a PS5 and PC version of one game. PC users usually get more antialiasing options, higher draw distances, etc. That difference may disappear for a while, until PC gaming moves on beyond an 8 core Ryzen and RX5700-level GPUs.

Also, consoles are shit and will remain being shit

 

[abija]

additionally, the inability of programmers to properly code games for the PC (even though DX12 on the Xbox is not that different to DX12 on the PC, coders will still have a weird amnesia and make a DX11 renderer instead) will increase the gap between consoles and PC even further.

The ones that produce shit coded games on PC would also produce shit coded games on consoles. Also applies to APIs. Shit coded games in DX9-11 won't magically improve with Vulkan, DX12 if coded by the same monkeys.

 

[taxalot]

Law of disminishing returns pretty much guarantee that however much powerful this thing is in raw power, the graphical improvements will be low.

 

[Makabb]

Law of disminishing returns pretty much guarantee that however much powerful this thing is in raw power, the graphical improvements will be low.

well yes, but actually no.


Yes because the diminishing returns hit the PC pretty hard since like 2015.
No because the ps4 is from 2013, and the CPU in ps4 is from like 2008. So the diminishing returns won't hit PS5, as it has a huge jump from a 2008 CPU to current high end one, the diminishing returns will hit the PC only.

 

[taxalot]

It has already hit consoles.
It is telling that the the PS4 was the first generation to propose "cross gen" titles. The time when both generations co existed saw many games come out on both platforms that were the same games with a variation on graphic details.

Previous generations, you couldn't get around with that. The PS3 and PS2 versions of games that were released on both supports were completly different altogether (see Ghostbusters or Splinter Cell : Double Agent).

The same shit is going to happen with this generation ; there is even talks of games having both the PS4 & PS5 versions on the same discs.

I am not saying there will be an important visual disparity between two versions, but it will be once again lesser than the previous generation jump, enough lesser than a few virtual sliders pushed left will make the games run on the previous generation for quite a while.

Some of you guys are talking like they are an expecting an actual revolution. It's like you never learn.

 

[Makabb]

there is even talks of games having both the PS4 & PS5 versions on the same discs.

You mean PS5 being backwards compatible, because there won't be for sure a ps4 and ps5 game on same disc, the size would be enormous way above 100gb capacity of the ps5 disc.

but it will be once again lesser than the previous generation jump

the CPU jump is MASSIVE, it will allow for things like more NPCs, draw distance, non popping lods, physics, AI, way more stuff being rendered at same time etc... and that's way more important than graphics.

PS5 cpu is 700% faster than the ps4.

 

[abija]

Remember last generation when the RAM jump was MASSIVE and it allowed for things like more NPCS BLAH BLAH BLAH ?

 

[Makabb]

Remember last generation when the RAM jump was MASSIVE and it allowed for things like more NPCS BLAH BLAH BLAH ?

the cpu was shit, ps3 was released in 2006 and the ps4 had basicaly a cpu from 2 years later.

CPU is arguably the most important part in a computer, it's the heart of the computer - central processing unit, GPU is the 2nd one, ram 3rd.

 

[OndrejSc]

The Front Side Bus will run on 1488 MHz and darker pixels will be pushed to the back of the packet.