Jagged Alliance The RPG genre is weak. Very weak. Probably the weakest traditional genre in gaming

[Grauken]

Let me add that I love Underrail, however if you believe it does "almost everything better than Fallout" you're crazy. It does boast a great crafting system, but crafting should have never been a feature of "RPGs".

Underrail does everything (that matters) better than Fallout. C&C and story are nice, but I need char building, I need difficulty, I need good combat.

both lack parties, so they miss something vital for the very best of CRPGs

 

[Thal]

But still, Deus ex is better than any shooter and JA2.

So completely wrong. Go and play ARMA.

As for JA2 vs. DEx, the former is more complex and ambitious than the latter. And yet it's almost perfect in execution, like DEx. But DEx is simpler. Far simpler. It's easier to perfect simplicity than complexity.

I suspect you saying a popamole is better than a tactical squad-based game with a strategic component stems from butthurt that JA2 smashes your precious Baldur's Gate to pieces, from its combat system right down to its "banter."

I know I accidentally put a comma in the wrong place but jesus christ. I consider JA2 one of the best games of all time which should be obvious if you had actually read what I said. (UFO: Enemy Unknown being the best one in my opinion).

Also, I have no doubt that there are shooters that are better as FPSs than Deus ex. But no shooter is a better game than Deus ex. Simple as that.

 

[Lilura]

But still, Deus ex is better than any shooter and JA2.

So completely wrong. Go and play ARMA.

As for JA2 vs. DEx, the former is more complex and ambitious than the latter. And yet it's almost perfect in execution, like DEx. But DEx is simpler. Far simpler. It's easier to perfect simplicity than complexity.

I suspect you saying a popamole is better than a tactical squad-based game with a strategic component stems from butthurt that JA2 smashes your precious Baldur's Gate to pieces, from its combat system right down to its "banter."

I know I accidentally put a comma in the wrong place but jesus christ. I consider JA2 one of the best games of all time which should be obvious if you had actually read what I said. (UFO: Enemy Unknown being the best one in my opinion).

Also, I have no doubt that there are shooters that are better as FPSs than Deus ex. But no shooter is a better game than Deus ex. Simple as that.

Oh really? If X-COM is your fave game of all-time... well, that's what I'm currently covering.

But I've never seen you post about Jagged Alliance 2 OR X-COM. Ever. Or Silent Storm or ToEE. Your pedigree is unknown.

ARMA is a better FPS than DEx and also a better game than DEx. There are many non-RPG FPSes that are grander achievements than DEx. Coding wizardry alone, DOOM shits on DEx. As does Half-life. Don't think of FPSes in the modern sense (except for ARMA).

 

[Falksi]

I know plenty of people who don't like or couldn't get into Jagged Alliance 2. Myself one of them.

I don't know of anyone who didn't enjoy the original Deus Ex

To that end I'm not sure you can bracket JA2 in the same league as Deus Ex

 

[NJClaw]

I don't know of anyone who didn't enjoy the original Deus Ex

Dramart hey, they are talking about you here!

Also, this thread is dumb and I hate it, so I would love it if everyone could just stop posting in it and let it die. Thanks!

 

[Grauken]

No, threads like these are highly amusing

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Let me add that I love Underrail, however if you believe it does "almost everything better than Fallout" you're crazy. It does boast a great crafting system, but crafting should have never been a feature of "RPGs".

Underrail does everything (that matters) better than Fallout. C&C and story are nice, but I need char building, I need difficulty, I need good combat.

both lack parties, so they miss something vital for the very best of CRPGs

correct
rpgs are about adventuring with friends

 

[NJClaw]

Let me add that I love Underrail, however if you believe it does "almost everything better than Fallout" you're crazy. It does boast a great crafting system, but crafting should have never been a feature of "RPGs".

Underrail does everything (that matters) better than Fallout. C&C and story are nice, but I need char building, I need difficulty, I need good combat.

both lack parties, so they miss something vital for the very best of CRPGs

correct
rpgs are about adventuring with friends

No, I realized after a very long thinking session that RPGs are about dressing your character(s) with various clothes.

 

[Latro]

Let me add that I love Underrail, however if you believe it does "almost everything better than Fallout" you're crazy. It does boast a great crafting system, but crafting should have never been a feature of "RPGs".

Underrail does everything (that matters) better than Fallout. C&C and story are nice, but I need char building, I need difficulty, I need good combat.

both lack parties, so they miss something vital for the very best of CRPGs

correct
rpgs are about adventuring with friends

Npcs aren’t real. I guess mmos are the real rpgs.

 

[Lilura]

Rusty's retardation:

rpgs are about adventuring with friends

No, we can roll solo or party with mercs, minions, slaves and even enemies.

BG employs Wisdom-based saving throw bonus for Fighters

No, it does not.

Recruitment of Fallout companions is Charisma-based

No, it isn't.

Rusty is a liar, a fraud and a shitposter.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Let me add that I love Underrail, however if you believe it does "almost everything better than Fallout" you're crazy. It does boast a great crafting system, but crafting should have never been a feature of "RPGs".

Underrail does everything (that matters) better than Fallout. C&C and story are nice, but I need char building, I need difficulty, I need good combat.

both lack parties, so they miss something vital for the very best of CRPGs

correct
rpgs are about adventuring with friends

Npcs aren’t real. I guess mmos are the real rpgs.

Perhaps the real RPGs were the friends we made along the way?

 

[Lady_Error]

JarlFrank is right, the image below gives a better representation of the difference between JRPG and RPG:

He also has only played the most hyped JRPG(if any) and has not played something like FF1 or FF3(that allows you to create your own party, 3 even allow for multi-classing, 5 does it better though) or DQ3(that ignoring the main hero that has a class Hero by default, also allows you to create your own party).

Most JRPG's suck because of the anime lollies in them, as well as the usually boring, childish dialogues.

As has been said many times before, for some reason the Japs are unaware that anything beyond Wizardry 1-5 ever existed, which they keep copying over and over (while adding lollies).

Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[Viata]

for some reason the Japs are unaware that anything beyond Wizardry 1-5 ever existed

Not only Japs. How many games like Wizardry 6, 7 or 8 are out there?
At least the Japs keep copying good games(old Wizardry games) unlike the rest that keep copying shit games.

 

[mondblut]

Npcs aren’t real. I guess mmos are the real rpgs.

Well, that's what they aspired to be back in the day. Before they let actual people in and it ruined everything.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Let me add that I love Underrail, however if you believe it does "almost everything better than Fallout" you're crazy. It does boast a great crafting system, but crafting should have never been a feature of "RPGs".

Underrail does everything (that matters) better than Fallout. C&C and story are nice, but I need char building, I need difficulty, I need good combat.

both lack parties, so they miss something vital for the very best of CRPGs

correct
rpgs are about adventuring with friends

Npcs aren’t real.

Highly prestigious.

 

[Raghar]

JarlFrank is right, the image below gives a better representation of the difference between JRPG and RPG:

He also has only played the most hyped JRPG(if any) and has not played something like FF1 or FF3(that allows you to create your own party, 3 even allow for multi-classing, 5 does it better though) or DQ3(that ignoring the main hero that has a class Hero by default, also allows you to create your own party).

Most JRPG's suck because of the anime lollies in them, as well as the usually boring, childish dialogues.

As has been said many times before, for some reason the Japs are unaware that anything beyond Wizardry 1-5 ever existed, which they keep copying over and over (while adding lollies).

Loli are big bonus.

And childish dialogues? Well main characters should be childish to even consider doing stuff like they do, so they are fitting.

 

[mondblut]

RPGs developed from pen and paper systems, where the focus has always been on player choice and player-driven gameplay.

RPGs were born when people began giving stories to figurines in wargaming. Storytelling games aren't RPGs, combat is vital.

So you're saying that "wargaming" and "RPG" aren't the same thing?

Fighting set-piece battles without an option to loot the bodies and check for traps is definitely not "RPG".

 

[Thac0]

JarlFrank is right, the image below gives a better representation of the difference between JRPG and RPG:

He also has only played the most hyped JRPG(if any) and has not played something like FF1 or FF3(that allows you to create your own party, 3 even allow for multi-classing, 5 does it better though) or DQ3(that ignoring the main hero that has a class Hero by default, also allows you to create your own party).

Most JRPG's suck because of the anime lollies in them, as well as the usually boring, childish dialogues.

As has been said many times before, for some reason the Japs are unaware that anything beyond Wizardry 1-5 ever existed, which they keep copying over and over (while adding lollies).

Thanks, but no thanks.

Anime lolli

Anime loli

One L since it comes from Lolita complex, as the Japanese agree that Otaku are pedos.

Spoiler

It's an odd complex as an outsider since Japan seems to be really split on the Loli infestation aswell. Here is a wapanese who thinks Lolis are art and goes into great detail to defend them in a 3 part video essay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75gNr8b2Ey8
I am still not quite sure what the Japanese public at large thinks about Lolis, but for one the whole ageplay fetish Japan has as a whole creeps me out.

But apart from perhaps swallowing bait, I agree JRPGs are generally not the most innovative genre. A few series are iterating on their concepts a lot, but looking at what happened to Final Fantasy, the JRPG which has undeniably the most variation between titles, I must say that I prefer it that way. FF XV is a Skyrim tier abomination and it selling so well and being so well regarded by casuals almost makes me understand Lilura 's boiling rage against Oblivion.

 

[Ol' Willy]

The RPG genre is defined as a collection of elements related to exploration, combat, and character progression/customization. Any definition of RPG that excludes exploration and combat is missing the point entirely.

None of these elements are exclusive to RPGs. Stalker CoP has exploration, combat and character progression (equipment based only). Is it a RPG? Not to say that several RPGs are quite linear and have little of exploration.

Combat is not paramount to the definition of RPG. But good luck trying to create adequately long, enjoyable and replayable RPG without combat. There is no combatless RPG equal to the greatest RPGs with combat.

Trick question: does pure talker run with 0 kills turn Age of Decadence into a non-RPG? Does pacifist run of Fallout 1/Arcanum/Sonora turn them into a non-RPGs?

 

[Crispy]

Trick question: does pure talker run with 0 kills turn Age of Decadence into a non-RPG? Does pacifist run of Fallout 1/Arcanum/Sonora turn them into a non-RPGs?

No because every one of those examples has almost inevitable combat as part of its core design.

It's nice to have the flexibility within an RPG to escape some or even most of its encounters in a non-violent way, but to exclude any kind of armed or hostile encounter will most definitely eject a game from the majestic halls of Games That Really Are RPGs.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

if blobbers are rpgs
and jrpgs are a subgenre of blobbers
but jrpgs aren't rpgs
then how are blobbers rpgs

 

[Lady_Error]

Trick question: does pure talker run with 0 kills turn Age of Decadence into a non-RPG? Does pacifist run of Fallout 1/Arcanum/Sonora turn them into a non-RPGs?

As long as the character stats have more influence on gameplay than the player's twitch skills, it is an RPG.

And just because there have been hardly any RPG's without combat so far does not mean that it is not possible.

 

[mondblut]

Trick question: does pure talker run with 0 kills turn Age of Decadence into a non-RPG? Does pacifist run of Fallout 1/Arcanum/Sonora turn them into a non-RPGs?

Does hitting someone's head with a chessboard make chess martial arts?

 

[jackofshadows]

Trick question: does pure talker run with 0 kills turn Age of Decadence into a non-RPG? Does pacifist run of Fallout 1/Arcanum/Sonora turn them into a non-RPGs?

Nothing tricky since they still are the same games with combat encounters being ready for launch. You should play the stumbling block of Codex: Disco Elysium. There's no combat system whatsoever and yet it's called RPG. Opinions are quite divided here and there's hardly any foreseeable consensus.

 

[Viata]

Trick question: does pure talker run with 0 kills turn Age of Decadence into a non-RPG? Does pacifist run of Fallout 1/Arcanum/Sonora turn them into a non-RPGs?

Does hitting someone's head with a chessboard make chess martial arts?

It becomes one if I'm losing the game.