The run button is out of control

[Ezekiel]

Almost any modern game you can name, button held down to go faster than the full tilt of the analog stick. Other hold function that might have been assigned therefore impossible. That button nearly always used for dodge, since full run is logical extension of dodge, but means every game is now way more about dodging and it's not enough to move around and position yourself well with the stick anymore. Attacks track you anyway, because they really want you to use that run button. Some of these games don't even let you jump, because RPG elements in everything means one of the other face buttons already dedicated to item pick up or use. Usually face button is run, meaning camera can't be as easily and comfortably manipulated. Additional features then need to be inserted to balance this full run: stamina, fog walls that keep you in the fight, stamina... But in nearly all of them player can still sprint past/around all the enemies, because run button is that OP.

 

[JarlFrank]

What the fuck is an "analog stick" speak in normal PC terms you consolefag

 

[Kev Inkline]

I think he means 'shift' key.

However, makes very little sense in any case.

 

[taxalot]

The run button has always been out of Control, it's the Shift key. Control is crouch.

Not sure what OP is talking about.

 

[Ezekiel]

PC devs should have designed flat controller for desks. If trying to convince me keyboard is best, no imagination. Could have been better than console controllers and KB/M combined.

 

[The Decline]

The run button has always been out of Control, it's the Shift key. Control is crouch.

Not sure what OP is talking about.

Except for those games that default assign crouch to the fucking "C" key.

 

[Hell Swarm]

I agree with you but it's a wider issue of every game trying to be dark souls now. Everything is using iframes to dodge or it's not being made

The run button has always been out of Control, it's the Shift key. Control is crouch.

Not sure what OP is talking about.

Caps lock was the original Doom run key.

 

[Ezekiel]

The run button has always been out of Control, it's the Shift key. Control is crouch.

Not sure what OP is talking about.

Except for those games that default assign crouch to the fucking "C" key.

Why would I want crouch on Ctrl, so close to the run key?

 

[Gerrard]

The run button has always been out of Control, it's the Shift key. Control is crouch.

Not sure what OP is talking about.

Except for those games that default assign crouch to the fucking "C" key.

Of course they do, Ctrl is for slow walking.

 

[JarlFrank]

Then there's the games that make X the crouch key for some reason.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Then there's the games that make X the crouch key for some reason.

Controllers are becoming the superior input method thanks to keyboards being unwiedy for how many buttons a modern game expects you to use.

 

[Athena]

Almost any modern game you can name, button held down to go faster than the full tilt of the analog stick. Other hold function that might have been assigned therefore impossible. That button nearly always used for dodge, since full run is logical extension of dodge, but means every game is now way more about dodging and it's not enough to move around and position yourself well with the stick anymore. Attacks track you anyway, because they really want you to use that run button. Some of these games don't even let you jump, because RPG elements in everything means one of the other face buttons already dedicated to item pick up or use. Usually face button is run, meaning camera can't be as easily and comfortably manipulated. Additional features then need to be inserted to balance this full run: stamina, fog walls that keep you in the fight, stamina... But in nearly all of them player can still sprint past/around all the enemies, because run button is that OP.

Name 50 examples.

 

[Spukrian]

PC devs should have designed flat controller for desks. If trying to convince me keyboard is best, no imagination. Could have been better than console controllers and KB/M combined.

Yeah.. you could have the controller have a base set on the desk and then have all the buttons on a maneuvarable stick... something like this maybe?

 

[Ezekiel]

PC devs should have designed flat controller for desks. If trying to convince me keyboard is best, no imagination. Could have been better than console controllers and KB/M combined.

Yeah.. you could have the controller have a base set on the desk and then have all the buttons on a maneuvarable stick... something like this maybe?

Too much for just moving a person around. Left hand should be on separate device.

 

[Ezekiel]

Almost any modern game you can name, button held down to go faster than the full tilt of the analog stick. Other hold function that might have been assigned therefore impossible. That button nearly always used for dodge, since full run is logical extension of dodge, but means every game is now way more about dodging and it's not enough to move around and position yourself well with the stick anymore. Attacks track you anyway, because they really want you to use that run button. Some of these games don't even let you jump, because RPG elements in everything means one of the other face buttons already dedicated to item pick up or use. Usually face button is run, meaning camera can't be as easily and comfortably manipulated. Additional features then need to be inserted to balance this full run: stamina, fog walls that keep you in the fight, stamina... But in nearly all of them player can still sprint past/around all the enemies, because run button is that OP.

Name 50 examples.

You could have just looked at your own library of modern third person games and tried to remember which of them let you fully run with just the stick. Almost none of them.

I will limit myself mostly to modern third person games with a run button. The rest of what I talked about varies. Will name button inputs even for games that play better with a KB/M for consistency.

Metal Gear Solid V
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom
Batman: Arkham Asylum*
Batman: Arkham City*
Batman: Arkham Knight*
Batman: Arkham Origins*
Demon's Souls
Dark Souls
Dark Souls II
Bloodborne
Dark Souls III
Sekiro
Elden Ring
The Last of Us (button L2)
The Last of Us, Part II
Tomb Raider
Rise of the Tomb Raider
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
Returnal
Grand Theft Auto series*
Red Dead Redemption series*
Days Gone (L3)
God of War 2018 (L3)
God of War: Ragnarok
Marvel's Spider-Man
A Plague Tale
Astral Chain (L3)
Death Stranding
Callisto Protocol
Control
Echo (IIRC)
The Evil Within (L1)
Hellblade (L1 or L2)
Horizon: Zero Dawn (Come to think of it, L3 to sprint is likely mandated by Sony.)
Little Nightmares (left face button)
Mad Max (R2)
Max Payne 3 (I don't know which button it is. Only play this with KB/M.)
Metal Gear Rising (R1)
Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor
Middle-earth: Shadow of War
Nioh
Nioh 2 (Dodge and sprint on bottom face button.)
Quantum Break (L1)
Sable
Resident Evil 6 (But RE always had a run button.)
Sleeping Dogs
Sniper Elite (L3)
Spec Ops: The Line (Sprint button shared with cover and context sensitive actions. Can't remember what this mediocre game plays like, but this sounds gross.)
Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order (L3)
Star Wars Jedi: Survivor
The Takeover and Fight'N Rage (Double-tap direction, like in River City Ransom and declined Streets of Rage 3.)
The Division (L3)
Watch Dogs (R2)
Vampyr (Right face button is dodge and sprint.)
Vanquish (IIRC)
The Witcher 3 (Hold bottom face button to sprint.)
Infamous: Second Son
Dragon's Dogma
Nier: Automata (Dodge button)


*Even worse because default movement is walk.

 

[abija]

A lot of those games consume a resource to sprint. How would you implement normal movement if sprint is default stick movement?

 

[Ezekiel]

A lot of those games consume a resource to sprint. How would you implement normal movement if sprint is default stick movement?

A lot of these games shouldn't have sprint at all. Like I said in OP, it's usually OP and you have to go out of your way to balance it. AI isn't up to the task either. Bad at pursuing and working together to cut you off.

 

[Ezekiel]

Also becoming more common because worlds are getting bigger and emptier.

 

[Ezekiel]

The Decline's disgust suggests that he never walks. Which means he's easier to see. Unless he always uses crouch in place of walk, which is very uncool. My brother bitches to me about this all the time. Plays too much Battlefield and L4D2, made me install the 2042 game I can't stand just to make me play with his ridiculous looking half controller half mouse setup. "Move slowly, so that they can't see you. They're always running around!"

 

[e-mailio estevez]

I wish more beat 'em ups and fighting games had dash buttons mapped to a button press. A lot of them use double-tapping in direction to dash which I find annoying, and makes micro-stepping forward impossible as a movement option. Those are my two cents, thanks for reading.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Controllers are becoming the superior input method thanks to keyboards being unwiedy for how many buttons a modern game expects you to use.

You ever seen the controls for Ultima Underworld? I swear that that they figured that since a keyboard has 101 keys, they might as well use them all. What's crazy is that Japan got a Playstation release of that game, and figured out how to put it on the original PSX controller, not even the PSX Pro controller with analog sticks. Just a D-Pad and eight buttons.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Something I've said before, the standardization of controllers has led to a standardization of games. Similar to my theory that RTS died because it didn't translate to a controller well.

I got into an argument with my wife because she was playing some third person action game, and without even looking at the controls I could tell there was a lock on feature by pushing R3. She insisted there was no such feature, until I took the controller away and pushed the button for her. Sure enough, it locked on (but I had to sleep on the couch).

 

[Ezekiel]

Something I've said before, the standardization of controllers has led to a standardization of games. Similar to my theory that RTS died because it didn't translate to a controller well.

I got into an argument with my wife because she was playing some third person action game, and without even looking at the controls I could tell there was a lock on feature by pushing R3. She insisted there was no such feature, until I took the controller away and pushed the button for her. Sure enough, it locked on (but I had to sleep on the couch).

Standardization of controllers? No, that's just everybody wanting to copy Dark Souls. Z-targeting was logical, but doesn't work with R3 because the button can't be held down. R3 is a shit button, not meant for primary actions. Toggling targeting fucking sucks. It's a more recent thing.

I went over this in my Batman video.

"After watching so many Batman fights, I can't imagine controlling him without a lock-on system. Locking on prevents the character from turning around and exposing their back to the enemy as soon as the player tries to pull away from their attacks or gain space [1]. It allows two fighters to dance [2]. I would assign the lock-on to L1, as a hold function. The player would switch to the next closest target ahead (and back) both by pressing down the left stick, meaning the L3 button [3], and by letting go of L1 and quickly locking on again [4]. This system, called "Z-targeting," was common [5] before Demon's Souls and Dark Souls popularized [6] the R3 lock-on [7]. I prefer the older system because it's not a toggle, thanks to the button not actuating at the base of a tilting stick. Because it's so easy to keep the button depressed and the function is actively felt rather than only seen, the player is more aware that it is active and the ability to run backwards and sideways is just built in even when there is no target. This can make lining yourself up for things in the environment outside of combat a little bit easier. If you wanted to be really creative, you could even let the player move sideways between narrow walls without triggering the usual canned animation [8][9]. Ocarina of Time and later Zelda games HAD toggle options, and I always hated them [10]. I would NOT lock the camera behind Batman while the targeting system is active. [11] It cuts off too much visibility. You can't see what you back into. Using the jump button with the lock-on button would allow my player to perform a kind of dodge. However, to make them use as many of the fight mechanics as possible, have them heed the positions of their enemies and hopefully keep them moving, jumping to the side or backwards would not be effective against every attack or type of enemy."

10:49

 

[Damned Registrations]

Toggling targeting fucking sucks. It's a more recent thing.

It's not though. Phantasy Star Online and Monster Hunter had toggled targeting and probably plenty of older titles. It works well for a lot of games where you want that finger free to hit other buttons, like Monster Hunter.

I agree with the OP that run button and sprint mechanics in general have become too prevalent though. Just your standard case of industry all converging on a single way of doing things because something super popular did it at some point.

 

[Ezekiel]

Toggling targeting fucking sucks. It's a more recent thing.

It's not though. Phantasy Star Online and Monster Hunter had toggled targeting and probably plenty of older titles. It works well for a lot of games where you want that finger free to hit other buttons, like Monster Hunter.

I agree with the OP that run button and sprint mechanics in general have become too prevalent though. Just your standard case of industry all converging on a single way of doing things because something super popular did it at some point.

I played PSO until the Ultimate difficulty when I was a kid, but can't remember how it plays. What button is it? At least it's not at the base of a tilting stick.