Is dodge rolling a decline mechanic?

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

is Elden Ring actually a good game? Does it require constant keyboard mashing? I realize of course you have to move around using the mouse and keyboard- but is it totally required that you must block and dodge and roll around the screen like a moron the entire combat?

I prefer the combat like in Grim Dawn where there is dodging and blocking but you can get by without it at first and get used to playing and then once you are good at the game you can introduce dodging and blocking if you feel like. I actually refunded The Witcher III because I could not be bothered to do the blocking and dodging and rolling around BS, and it felt like it was defiantly going to be necessary based on the tutorial and first part of the game. I don't mind special attacks and cool downs; I really just don't like all the extra defensive stuff, especially when they are basically required to win certain combat encounters. The rolling around is especially goofy and off-putting. Combat often turns into just rolling around like a clown back and forth, its the opposite of immersive and looks ghey as hell.

 

[Caim]

is Elden Ring actually a good game? Does it require constant keyboard mashing? I realize of course you have to move around using the mouse and keyboard- but is it totally required that you must block and dodge and roll around the screen like a moron the entire combat?

I prefer the combat like in Grim Dawn where there is dodging and blocking but you can get by without it at first and get used to playing and then once you are good at the game you can introduce dodging and blocking if you feel like. I actually refunded The Witcher III because I could not be bothered to do the blocking and dodging and rolling around BS, and it felt like it was defiantly going to be necessary based on the tutorial and first part of the game. I don't mind special attacks and cool downs; I really just don't like all the extra defensive stuff, especially when they are basically required to win certain combat encounters. The rolling around is especially goofy and off-putting. Combat often turns into just rolling around like a clown back and forth, its the opposite of immersive and looks ghey as hell.

If you dislike dodge rolling so much you refunded a game over it I have a strong suspicion that you're not going to like Elden Ring. Sure you can just try and avoid attacks by running away or equipping a big-ass shield and blocking your enemy's attacks (and you can easily retalliate from a block with a single press of a button instead of attacking normally). There's also the issue of how there's bosses who stall their attacks to lure you into doding early to catch you when you're off guard, which requires a better timing of your defenses. There is the option to learn every single attack of every single boss to dance around their attacks, but that requires an amount of time and 'tism that few people have patience for.

Honestly I haven't played Grim Dawn, so if you want a better opinion you might want to ask in the dedicated Elden Ring thread for a comparison.

 

[PulsatingBrain]

blocking and dodging and rolling around BS

I have no idea why you would even consider a game with 3rd person melee combat at all.

Elden Ring is a good game, but you wouldn't like it.

 

[Zombra]

is Elden Ring actually a good game? Does it require constant keyboard mashing? I realize of course you have to move around using the mouse and keyboard- but is it totally required that you must block and dodge and roll around the screen like a moron the entire combat?

I prefer the combat like in Grim Dawn where there is dodging and blocking but you can get by without it at first and get used to playing and then once you are good at the game you can introduce dodging and blocking if you feel like. I actually refunded The Witcher III because I could not be bothered to do the blocking and dodging and rolling around BS, and it felt like it was defiantly going to be necessary based on the tutorial and first part of the game. I don't mind special attacks and cool downs; I really just don't like all the extra defensive stuff, especially when they are basically required to win certain combat encounters. The rolling around is especially goofy and off-putting. Combat often turns into just rolling around like a clown back and forth, its the opposite of immersive and looks ghey as hell.

Fun fact, Ghost of Tsushima allows you to unlock dodge rolling if you want to, but the game is fully playable beginning to end without even opening that section of the skill tree

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

blocking and dodging and rolling around BS

I have no idea why you would even consider a game with 3rd person melee combat at all.

Elden Ring is a good game, but you wouldn't like it.

the game looks pretty cool, but I think you are right. Every so often though I try and buy a third person game just to see if I might change my mind or if it might be slightly different in a way I could enjoy it, but so far the only one I have kept is red dead redemption 2. The only action games I really ever like are 2D or isometric. I have refunded the Witcher 3 and Metro Exodus recently. Elden Rings was 40% off so I was thinking about trying it, but its probably just a waste of time. I have enough games in my backlog anyway.

 

[Lyric Suite]

is Elden Ring actually a good game? Does it require constant keyboard mashing? I realize of course you have to move around using the mouse and keyboard- but is it totally required that you must block and dodge and roll around the screen like a moron the entire combat?

I prefer the combat like in Grim Dawn where there is dodging and blocking but you can get by without it at first and get used to playing and then once you are good at the game you can introduce dodging and blocking if you feel like. I actually refunded The Witcher III because I could not be bothered to do the blocking and dodging and rolling around BS, and it felt like it was defiantly going to be necessary based on the tutorial and first part of the game. I don't mind special attacks and cool downs; I really just don't like all the extra defensive stuff, especially when they are basically required to win certain combat encounters. The rolling around is especially goofy and off-putting. Combat often turns into just rolling around like a clown back and forth, its the opposite of immersive and looks ghey as hell.

If you dislike dodge rolling so much you refunded a game over it I have a strong suspicion that you're not going to like Elden Ring. Sure you can just try and avoid attacks by running away or equipping a big-ass shield and blocking your enemy's attacks (and you can easily retalliate from a block with a single press of a button instead of attacking normally). There's also the issue of how there's bosses who stall their attacks to lure you into doding early to catch you when you're off guard, which requires a better timing of your defenses. There is the option to learn every single attack of every single boss to dance around their attacks, but that requires an amount of time and 'tism that few people have patience for.

Honestly I haven't played Grim Dawn, so if you want a better opinion you might want to ask in the dedicated Elden Ring thread for a comparison.

Hatred of dodge rolling is just a meme that was downloaded into the consciousness of normies and now everybody think they hate it even though they have no clue what it is, as his post demonstrates.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

is Elden Ring actually a good game? Does it require constant keyboard mashing? I realize of course you have to move around using the mouse and keyboard- but is it totally required that you must block and dodge and roll around the screen like a moron the entire combat?

I prefer the combat like in Grim Dawn where there is dodging and blocking but you can get by without it at first and get used to playing and then once you are good at the game you can introduce dodging and blocking if you feel like. I actually refunded The Witcher III because I could not be bothered to do the blocking and dodging and rolling around BS, and it felt like it was defiantly going to be necessary based on the tutorial and first part of the game. I don't mind special attacks and cool downs; I really just don't like all the extra defensive stuff, especially when they are basically required to win certain combat encounters. The rolling around is especially goofy and off-putting. Combat often turns into just rolling around like a clown back and forth, its the opposite of immersive and looks ghey as hell.

If you dislike dodge rolling so much you refunded a game over it I have a strong suspicion that you're not going to like Elden Ring. Sure you can just try and avoid attacks by running away or equipping a big-ass shield and blocking your enemy's attacks (and you can easily retalliate from a block with a single press of a button instead of attacking normally). There's also the issue of how there's bosses who stall their attacks to lure you into doding early to catch you when you're off guard, which requires a better timing of your defenses. There is the option to learn every single attack of every single boss to dance around their attacks, but that requires an amount of time and 'tism that few people have patience for.

Honestly I haven't played Grim Dawn, so if you want a better opinion you might want to ask in the dedicated Elden Ring thread for a comparison.

Hatred of dodge rolling is just a meme that was downloaded into the consciousness of normies and now everybody think they hate it even though they have no clue what it is, as his post demonstrates.

Everybody knows what "it is", its not like it is some complicated game mechanism that takes deep understanding. Do you think you are special for understanding the complexities of Mario Brothers jumping on top of the magic mushrooms? Its an action game that children reflexively understand the mechanics and strategy behind with almost no thought. I did not even know there was a 'meme' about dodge rolling, it just looks so obviously out of place in any RPG where muscular knights in full plate armor are swinging enormous hammers and halberds while rolling back and forth over and over again like they are cirque du soleil performers in tights.

Its not that I don't like dodge rolling. I don't like dodging at all-- even just side to side dodging. I don't like being responsible for blocking with my shield either. If you play with mouse and keyboard you already have your hand on the WASD keys and then your other hand on the mouse with a left-click attack and usually some sort of a right click special attack or maybe healing, or special ability. Then you might have cool down attacks on the number keys and toggle run with the shift key. You will also often have a jump key and a crouch, and a block and or parry key, so to then have to fucking dodge side to side with the Q and E keys and then maybe also a roll dodge by holding down the middle mouse button while pressing a movement key in the correct direction while considering if you want maybe block instead or run or use cool downs, its all just fucking too much bullshit and its not fun, it sucks. We are up to like 17-18 keys I just described. That is not fun.

Its like some sort of game to teach typing skills or something, it includes most the keys on the keyboard. That is fucking terrible game design to be mashing nearly all the keys on the keyboard. Maybe there should be some cool tripping moves? Stick out your foot and trip them? I mean there are maybe 3 or 4 unused keys. Perhaps taunting by sticking your tongue out? Every key should be put to use, the more the better I say.

But in reality this type of game design sucks. You may enjoy doing it, but you are wrong and have the incorrect opinion and poor taste. Its terrible game design that does not allow actual enjoyment of the game. Less is often more. Like strip down your fucking game into less but more impactful decisions that allows a balance of stress with the ability to still sometimes enjoy what is happening on the screen. Who cares about the graphics if you are just concentrating on typing all the time? The actual correct and right way to design an action RPG, which is still supposed to be an RPG after all, is to not make it 100% player skill based, but instead make those shitty, mundane blocking and dodging skills non-player skill based and instead based off the ability of the character the person playing the game has taken partial control over.

edit: lol @ all the butthurt gen-Z adderall addicts. I realize most of them can't really relate since they play all their 'old skool rpgs' like dragon age 2 on walmart TV's using controllers while sitting on their smelly fart couches.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I ain't reading any of that shit you know that right?

 

[Lizard]

It's dumb for different reasons, memorize pattern then press button at right time can only take you so far.

Would be nice to have more of a middle ground between braindead monkey press button, and super autism games.
I can only play so much of each before I get burned out. There is a part of my brain left unsatisfied with both, not sure how to explain it. Less procedure and more wit?

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

I ain't reading any of that shit you know that right?

I know that its pretty funny that despite all your constant bleating to the contrary, that you felt your best 'defense' was to admit to being a modern tik-tok brained low IQ, high-time preference NPC.

And then you will say something about not wanting to waste time reading whatever I wrote, but how could you possibly know what I wrote without ever reading it except that you read it and got butthurt? You have 60,000 posts in a forum where people communicate by writing words out to each other, but okay, I will take your word for it; you are a modernized spaz, who despite spending lots and lots of time seemingly typing out words back and forth to people on the internet, that when confronted with too many of these words strung together, freezes up and runs off to tik-tok or reverts to posting real time monosyllabic nonsense back and forth w/ other degens so as to not overwhelm each other w/ the "so many the wordz in the row". Good job, you win, you convinced me, you are in fact a moron.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Me on my way to deal with this situation while being a single guy who behaves in a realistic manner (I will die in 23 seconds)

 

[Lyric Suite]

Last i checked Codexers were also shitting on the combat system of KCD for focusing too much on realism instead of "fun".

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Last i checked Codexers were also shitting on the combat system of KCD for focusing too much on realism instead of "fun".

I thought it was mainly complaining that master strokes ruin it?

 

[Zombra]

Me on my way to deal with this situation while being a single guy who behaves in a realistic manner (I will die in 23 seconds)

I mean yeah, realism should be the last concern in video games compared to good gameplay and being generally entertaining. I just hate how these things have become de rigeur despite looking completely stupid every time. What's next? One game has you shooting bananas out of your forehead, and then people start getting upset that a game gets made but "Where is the shooting bananas out of my forehead button? The devs really fucked up by not including that"

 

[Machocruz]

I don't mind it in 3D games, but rolling is in a lot of sidescrollers now too and I have to wonder why, considering you can perfectly discern depth, proximity, and enemy attack vectors in 2D.

 

[mondblut]

Depends on implementation.

Here's an example of proper kind of dodge rolling:

 

[JarlFrank]

Its not that I don't like dodge rolling. I don't like dodging at all-- even just side to side dodging. I don't like being responsible for blocking with my shield either. If you play with mouse and keyboard you already have your hand on the WASD keys and then your other hand on the mouse with a left-click attack and usually some sort of a right click special attack or maybe healing, or special ability. Then you might have cool down attacks on the number keys and toggle run with the shift key. You will also often have a jump key and a crouch, and a block and or parry key, so to then have to fucking dodge side to side with the Q and E keys and then maybe also a roll dodge by holding down the middle mouse button while pressing a movement key in the correct direction while considering if you want maybe block instead or run or use cool downs, its all just fucking too much bullshit and its not fun, it sucks. We are up to like 17-18 keys I just described. That is not fun.

I played Elden Ring and all three Dark Souls games with mouse & keyboard and your ideas of what it's like is completely wrong.

There is one roll key, and it rolls you into the direction you hold the movement keys into.
Usually the roll key is space (which would be jump in most games - Dark Souls has no dedicated jump key, you jump by sprinting and then hitting the roll key to jump out of the sprint, Elden Ring introduced a jump key which is F by default IIRC).
So if you want to dodge roll to the right, you hold D and hit space. Easy.
The games also have blocking/parrying with shields and weapons. Blocking is set to the right mouse button by default, which is pretty standard for a block button in action RPGs and action games in general.

I don't know where your impression comes from that you'd have to hit directional roll buttons for every direction. I don't know anything about controllers (never owned one in my life, never will) but they don't have that many buttons, I don't think games designed for controllers could even work with so many unique input buttons. Hold down the direction you want to move into, then roll, is how every single game with dodge roll mechanics does it.

 

[Ash]

One of these threads once more? OK here we go again.

One of my biggest pet peeves of """gamers""" is those that complain about game design on the basis of realism. Especially in games without a significant focus on realism in their core design. Still, I will agree that I find it odd that some devs choose rolling when a simple dash/lunge-step type maneuver does the trick too, but rolling perhaps does look cooler and at the end of the day who really cares? Only those with ass-backwards priorities. I think perhaps Souls devs choose rolling over a dash because it is a longer animation you have to commit to generally, and therefore be more wary of rolling over edges and such, more so than you would with a brief dodge dash/step.

I don't know where your impression comes from that you'd have to hit directional roll buttons for every direction. I don't know anything about controllers (never owned one in my life, never will) but they don't have that many buttons, I don't think games designed for controllers could even work with so many unique input buttons. Hold down the direction you want to move into, then roll, is how every single game with dodge roll mechanics does it.

The main difference here is controllers allow dodging in 360 degrees/360 different directions (or whatever the precision of analog sticks is - close to). Keyboard is only 8 directions, though in a lot of games you can compensate direction origin with the mouse/adjusting angle with the camera as awkward as that is. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Both forms of control input is valid just as it is with literally almost any game.

 

[Just Locus]

I actually refunded The Witcher III because I could not be bothered to do the blocking and dodging and rolling around BS, and it felt like it was defiantly going to be necessary based on the tutorial and first part of the game.

Combat in TW3 is actually kind of impressive in how mindless it is. I did almost every piece of side content, even those that involved monsters 13 levels above me with complete ease, because dodging is super OP.

There's a perk in the combat tree that allows you to dodge without taking any damage and I was genuinely confused why anyone would waste a perk point on it because dodging in any direction (even towards the attack) will result in little to no damage and all the enemies attack slower than molasses. Hence, it's not a matter of timing either.

I wish I was being reductive but that's genuinely what the combat boils down to—Slash, Slash, Dodge, Slash, Slash, Repeat. Ad nauseam.

 

[Ezekiel]

I'm sick of dodge. Streets of Rage and many other old games didn't need it. You find your spacing. Wanna see that kind of micro-stepping in an action-adventure game. Dodge nowadays just makes combat more glue, more about attacks seeking you mid-swing. Why you see all these examples of protags being out of the space of attack, but then warping back in because the player didn't press the stupid button. A whole button that could be used for something else. No imagination from indie and studios alike, all wanting to make Dark Souls. Makes it less about movement too, since the dodge is so powerful. Can stay still more, which is boring.

 

[Bulo]

Fights that are more about positioning (e.g. Nameless King in DS3) are more fun and memorable (imhotbqhwyf) than endurance fights centred around perfect dodge-rolling (e.g. final boss of SotE). Parrying is even better. Sekiro is still the goat

 

[Necrensha]

At first I loved rolling out of danger, after 10+ years of every single goddamn game insisting that it's the only valid way of stepping out of danger I'm sick to death of it.