Interview "The story now is 900 pages long": Brian Fargo on Wasteland 2's Progress @ GamesIndustry

[mindx2]

snip

VD, aren't you leaving out the biggest difference... no publisher telling them to make it next-gen popamole with an awesome button. Whatever else you might think (and I think you have legitimate concerns/ questions) that is a big difference.

 

[Brother None]

Now, like everyone else I hope that it will be a great RPG simply because the universe owes us a great RPG and Wasteland 2 is probably the best candidate, but so far - 4 months since the game was funded - hope is still all we got. I mean, it would be nice to get some details, wouldn't it?

Wait, really? C'mon Vince. You've been around in da game long enough to know that expecting solid details 4 months in is unrealistic. Every design doc they have is still fluid and being iterated. If they give us examples of their work-in-progress now, fans and possibly the media will call them out a year from now when these things changed during the design process.

And what are the advantages of talking solid details now? None that I can see. It's not like people are stomping with impatience. They show what they have when they feel comfortable showing it. Are you really saying we should be worried because we haven't had any details yet, now? Sorry man, but that's ridiculous.

Also, I'm not sure what your point is in regards to the way Fargo handles interviews and PR. He was good at marketing a middling action RPG, and now he's being good at marketing a more hardcore RPG. So what? I don't really care about the tone of marketing, why should any of us? He's doing what he does best, and it sounds eerily familiar because this style of marketing is really efficient. But really...so what? Are you saying that marketing being similar indicates something about the game's design? That would be a real stretch.

I know you're just trying to balance out the community tone, but I'm not sure why. What's wrong with just being excited about this game until it actually shows a real reason not to be?

 

[Vault Dweller]

VD, aren't you leaving out the biggest difference... no publisher telling them to make it next-gen popamole with an awesome button. Whatever else you might think (and I think you have legitimate concerns/ questions) that is a big difference.

It is, but I think we all hope that it's gonna be a bit more than "at least it's not a next-gen popamole with an awesome button".

 

[Vault Dweller]

Wait, really? C'mon Vince. You've been around in da game long enough to know that expecting solid details 4 months in is unrealistic. Every design doc they have is still fluid and being iterated. If they give us examples of their work-in-progress now, fans and possibly the media will call them out a year from now when these things changed during the design process.

First, nobody will call them out on anything if they say "work in progress, subject to change without notice". There is a difference between what Bethesda used to do - make shit up to hype their games and they say "oops, it was too awesome and we had to cut it, sorry, guys" and showing some work in progress stuff to bounce some ideas, get feedback, and reassure fans.

Second, last time I checked, they were on a tight schedule. Didn't Brian say that the game will be in pre-production for 6 months and then they'll start putting it together? So, they'll start working on the game full speed in 2 months. They should have plenty to show (not screenshots, obviously, but design stuff, which is something I'm interested in the most). And didn't you say that they worked on it for a few months before the KS? So, it's more than 4 months of pre-production.

And what are the advantages of talking solid details now? None that I can see. It's not like people are stomping with impatience. They show what they have when they feel comfortable showing it. Are you really saying we should be worried because we haven't had any details yet, now? Sorry man, but that's ridiculous.

No, I'm not saying it. I'm saying that right now we know absolutely nothing about the game. Other than the fact that it's gonna be the deepest and the bestest.

As for the advantages of talking details now, well... Are you saying that constructive feedback is a bad thing? When everything is finalized, it's sort of too late to change much, in case some aspects aren't quite as good as they could be.

Also, I'm not sure what your point is in regards to the way Fargo handles interviews and PR. He was good at marketing a middling action RPG, and now he's being good at marketing a more hardcore RPG. So what? I don't really care about the tone of marketing, why should any of us?

Because he didn't deliver what he promised? Didn't deliver what, I assume, he wanted to deliver? If that's not a cause for concern, I don't know what is.

And let's not be so hasty filing everything he said under "it's just marketing, man". Some pearls of wisdom:

"Brian Fargo: I think if I had done something that was very traditional and like the old games, there'd be some people that were happy about it, and there'd be some other people that would say, "What were you thinking? That was ten years ago! You need to deliver what players are looking for today." So I think with any sensibility choice that you make, you're going to have people that really like it and people that don't."

"GameSpy: Wizardry 8 was very much a return to the old style of RPGs that we haven't seen in years. Would you be interested in developing a more classical-style, back-to-basics RPG in the future?
Brian Fargo: Yes, but not quite that back-to-basics. In my opinion that was a little too old-school for me."

Sure, Brian's good at marketing, but so is Pete Hines, if you catch my drift.

I know you're just trying to balance out the community tone, but I'm not sure why. What's wrong with just being excited about this game until it actually shows a real reason not to be?

I am excited that WL2 is in development. I hope it will be a good game, but it would be nice to get some ideas of what the game is going to be like.

 

[marooned]

I'm not really concerned about the writting. I'm more insterested in what the gameplay will be like. But there's still a while for that. We'll see.

 

[General Maxson]

Wait, really? C'mon Vince. You've been around in da game long enough to know that expecting solid details 4 months in is unrealistic. Every design doc they have is still fluid and being iterated. If they give us examples of their work-in-progress now, fans and possibly the media will call them out a year from now when these things changed during the design process.

First, nobody will call them out on anything if they say "work in progress, subject to change without notice". There is a difference between what Bethesda used to do - make shit up to hype their games and they say "oops, it was too awesome and we had to cut it, sorry, guys" and showing some work in progress stuff to bounce some ideas, get feedback, and reassure fans.

Second, last time I checked, they were on a tight schedule. Didn't Brian say that the game will be in pre-production for 6 months and then they'll start putting it together? So, they'll start working on the game full speed in 2 months. They should have plenty to show (not screenshots, obviously, but design stuff, which is something I'm interested in the most). And didn't you say that they worked on it for a few months before the KS? So, it's more than 4 months of pre-production.

And what are the advantages of talking solid details now? None that I can see. It's not like people are stomping with impatience. They show what they have when they feel comfortable showing it. Are you really saying we should be worried because we haven't had any details yet, now? Sorry man, but that's ridiculous.

No, I'm not saying it. I'm saying that right now we know absolutely nothing about the game. Other than the fact that it's gonna be the deepest and the bestest.

As for the advantages of talking details now, well... Are you saying that constructive feedback is a bad thing? When everything is finalized, it's sort of too late to change much, in case some aspects aren't quite as good as they could be.

Also, I'm not sure what your point is in regards to the way Fargo handles interviews and PR. He was good at marketing a middling action RPG, and now he's being good at marketing a more hardcore RPG. So what? I don't really care about the tone of marketing, why should any of us?

Because he didn't deliver what he promised? Didn't deliver what, I assume, he wanted to deliver? If that's not a cause for concern, I don't know what is.

And let's not be so hasty filing everything he said under "it's just marketing, man". Some pearls of wisdom:

"Brian Fargo: I think if I had done something that was very traditional and like the old games, there'd be some people that were happy about it, and there'd be some other people that would say, "What were you thinking? That was ten years ago! You need to deliver what players are looking for today." So I think with any sensibility choice that you make, you're going to have people that really like it and people that don't."

"GameSpy: Wizardry 8 was very much a return to the old style of RPGs that we haven't seen in years. Would you be interested in developing a more classical-style, back-to-basics RPG in the future?
Brian Fargo: Yes, but not quite that back-to-basics. In my opinion that was a little too old-school for me."

Sure, Brian's good at marketing, but so is Pete Hines, if you catch my drift.

I know you're just trying to balance out the community tone, but I'm not sure why. What's wrong with just being excited about this game until it actually shows a real reason not to be?

I am excited that WL2 is in development. I hope it will be a good game, but it would be nice to get some ideas of what the game is going to be like.

You did "selectively quote" me, and did not adress all the points I said, but ok. You do say some valid concerns.

I say, why not send those concerns as interview questions to Fargo, but Codex like, without bullshit. :D

I mean, the man IS their PR. Codex gave them 10 000 $ AND publicity. And as far as I can see every day interviews are give out by Fargo to various less prestigious (no joke here) magazines. So why not Codex questions about those concerns? Because "there is no truth in gaming industry"?

I mean questions like why GTA and Sim City as an example?

Or, why the rescue the kid as an example quest? Why not an example concept of a single quest with C&C?

Or why not more fan interaction about design decisions, but only irrelevant ones?

etc.

 

[GordonHalfman]

The fact that the marketing spin and lies is being targeted at old school rpg fans again is itself a small victory.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You did "selectively quote" me, and did not adress all the points I said...

What did I miss?

I say, why not send those concerns as interview questions to Fargo, but Codex like, without bullshit. :D

I mean, the man IS their PR. Codex gave them 10 000 $ AND publicity. And as far as I can see every day interviews are give out by Fargo to various less prestigious (no joke here) magazines. So why not Codex questions about those concerns? Because "there is no truth in gaming industry"?

It's pointless (like asking him about the 18 months schedule was).

Instead, the Codex should ask straight-forward questions like "What can you tell us about the character system? The combat system? Grid? Cover? AP? Damage types? Quest design with specific examples showing the direction? Dialogue design? Multiple quest solutions? Etc."

Not sure if Fargo is ready to have such a conversation yet, but until he does there is no point in asking him questions which will result in generic, "vision document" type answers.

 

[Infinitron]

"GameSpy: Wizardry 8 was very much a return to the old style of RPGs that we haven't seen in years. Would you be interested in developing a more classical-style, back-to-basics RPG in the future?
Brian Fargo: Yes, but not quite that back-to-basics. In my opinion that was a little too old-school for me."

I am not sure if you really should be complaining about this. The game that is your namesake is also, let's face it, less "old-school" than Wizardry 8.

Heck, arguably even the original Wasteland is less old-school than Wizardry 8.

 

[General Maxson]

You did "selectively quote" me, and did not adress all the points I said...

What did I miss?

I say, why not send those concerns as interview questions to Fargo, but Codex like, without bullshit. :D

I mean, the man IS their PR. Codex gave them 10 000 $ AND publicity. And as far as I can see every day interviews are give out by Fargo to various less prestigious (no joke here) magazines. So why not Codex questions about those concerns? Because "there is no truth in gaming industry"?

It's pointless (like asking him about the 18 months schedule was).

Instead, the Codex should ask straight-forward questions like "What can you tell us about the character system? The combat system? Grid? Cover? AP? Damage types? Quest design with specific examples showing the direction? Dialogue design? Multiple quest solutions? Etc."

Not sure if Fargo is ready to have such a conversation yet, but until he does there is no point in asking him questions which will result in generic, "vision document" type answers.

Well like the thing that he maybe referred to GTA as an example of the open world type style... But it's not important.

It's pointless because he won't answer such questions? Or because he will give ambiguous answer...

I agree that we should ask him such questions like you suggested, but if he will not answer until he is ready, than that is pointless also... Because it could be too late to change or at least rage about...

On the other hand such questions that concern some things he said he might be willing to answer, for example why not include fans more (because he always proudly mentions fan involvement, maybe he means they read forums and take good ideas without really directly communicating with fans)? I get it, it's his game, and he wants to make it his way, and I agree they should mostly stick to their vision, but what input did the fans have so far? Color filter, which will be optional anyway... I mean Codex is pretty active with news, which are often insignificant IMHO, but this could be the next "half-mainstream" messiah of crpg and I think we should bug them more with questions before it's too late!

 

[Johannes]

To me it's pretty clear why he said GTA and SimCity. That you can do a lot of things, that it's a freeform process not strictly guided by just a storyline. That's what I gather from it at least.


But yeah proper details about the gameplay - combat, noncombat, how do those two mix together, is the world "alive" or just reactin to your actions, the alleged ranger base management, - would be expected at this point. Seeing how he constantly talks about the interaction with the backers/players, there's some discord between how he walks and talks.

 

[General Maxson]

To me it's pretty clear why he said GTA and SimCity. That you can do a lot of things, that it's a freeform process not strictly guided by just a storyline. That's what I gather from it at least.


But yeah proper details about the gameplay - combat, noncombat, how do those two mix together, is the world "alive" or just reactin to your actions, the alleged ranger base management, - would be expected at this point. Seeing how he constantly talks about the interaction with the backers/players, there's some discord between how he walks and talks.

It would be interesting to me, will they perhaps "expand" except the base thing, the vehicle thing (which seems to be the case). Like will there be a few vehicles to ride and will you be able to use them in combat with their powerful mounted guns? Will you be able to upgrade and or tweak them (like you could car in Fallout 2)? Imagine riding and parking a hovertank in your ranger base... :D

 

[Vault Dweller]

I am not sure if you really should be complaining about this. The game that is your namesake is also, let's face it, less "old-school" than Wizardry 8.

Heck, arguably even the original Wasteland is less old-school than Wizardry 8.

Can we not bring up my game every time I say something? Or look at my posts as "my game is old-school and awesome and Fargo's isn't"? Thank you in advance.

As for the quote in question, first, I'm not complaining about anything. I'm merely surprised that Fargo thought that Wiz 8 was too old-school for him. I'm wondering what it means for WL2 (without expecting it to be like Wiz 8, of course). And yes, I'm well aware that AoD is not an old school game, not that it has anything to do with the topic.

 

[Infinitron]

Can we not bring up my game every time I say something? Or look at my posts as "my game is old-school and awesome and Fargo's isn't"? Thank you in advance.

I was talking about Fallout, not AoD. Your namesake, Mr. Vault Dweller?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well like the thing that he maybe referred to GTA as an example of the open world type style... But it's not important.

Does anyone want the same open world style for WL2? It was a giant sandbox with primitive quests and activities. If not for driving wildly while listening to music and being chased by cops, the game would be utter shit.

Besides, aren't there any RPG sandbox games that can be cited as inspirations and invoke the right kind of images?

It's pointless because he won't answer such questions? Or because he will give ambiguous answer...

Because he will give predictable, ambiguous answers.

I agree that we should ask him such questions like you suggested, but if he will not answer until he is ready, than that is pointless also... Because it could be too late to change or at least rage about...

Yep. My main concern revolves around what he said shortly after the KS campaign was over. Something like "we aren't going to get into too many details, that's what the beta test is for."

On the other hand such questions that concern some things he said he might be willing to answer, for example why not include fans more (because he always proudly mentions fan involvement, maybe he means they read forums and take good ideas without really directly communicating with fans)? I get it, it's his game, and he wants to make it his way, and I agree they should mostly stick to their vision, but what input did the fans have so far? Color filter, which will be optional anyway...

Precisely.

I mean Codex is pretty active with news, which are often insignificant IMHO, but this could be the next "half-mainstream" messiah of crpg and I think we should bug them more with questions before it's too late!

They should certainly ask if he's ready to talk details.

 

[Infinitron]

Besides, aren't there any RPG sandbox games that can be cited as inspirations and invoke the right kind of images?

...possibly not.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Can we not bring up my game every time I say something? Or look at my posts as "my game is old-school and awesome and Fargo's isn't"? Thank you in advance.

I was talking about Fallout, not AoD. Your namesake, Mr. Vault Dweller?

Oops. It was a reaction to other people bringing up AoD and DS. My apologies.

 

[Commissar Draco]

VD go back to making the AoD... I really do want to play it before ITZ.

 

[Computer Gamer Refugee]

VD go back to making the AoD... I really do want to play it before ITZ.

This seriously....

Comeon, I want to buy it for christmas for everyone I know.. (wife, friend, 6 year old neice, grandmother, etc).