THE TOP 100 GAMES OF ALL TIME

[NecroLord]

Daily reminder that Deus ex is overrated crap.

And so is Morrowind.

What an original opinion.
Did you come up with that all by yourself, or after a browsing session on Reddit?

 

[Ryzer]

Daily reminder that Deus ex is overrated crap.

And so is Morrowind.

What an original opinion.
Did you come up with that all by yourself, or after a browsing session on Reddit?

Deus ex is a game I should love considering I love sci-fi but in reality it has nothing to like and I think Roxor summarized fairly well.

The sneaking mechanic is atrociously boring and unappealing, the gameplay is terribad, the tranquilizer darts are a joke and not fun to use at all, the story doesn't click, it's lame, it never gets exciting, ever. The gunplay is a terrible joke, action and RPG elements just doesn't mix well at all.

I share a similar experience to him, I tried multiple times, I thought I was just hallucinating, maybe it gets better after time but it never gets better. The gameplay never improves, sure you obtain better accuracy through experience so the gameplay doesn't remain atrocious but it never gets good either.

Deus Ex.

I tried playing it three times - at release, a few years after that, and some 3 years ago. Nope. It just doesn't do it for me. I always get extra bored after a few levels and never return to it. At first it looked like something that I should love - System Shock 2 meets Thief - but, in practice, I found that it tries to be both of these games and fails to be good at being either. The stealth is shit, the gunplay is shit, the tranq darts are so terrible they make me cry, the level design is 'sort of there' but eh it's much worse than Thief, the character development is bleh. Even the setting/story/whatever are uninteresting as hell to me.

Literally the only thing I remember liking about Desu Ex was that you could have your legs blown off.

All in all, I'm still struggling to find what people like about this game, it does nothing really well. Even the memes are poor, because the voice acting is horrible as if it was a chore for the voice actor to repeat his lines.

 

[Lemming42]

A lot of individual elements and mechanics of Deus Ex are middling but they come together in a way that's hugely exciting. A lot of the game's appeal is just in the way it attempts things that nobody's really done since. At the time it seemed to be a glimpse into the future of action games, now in retrospect it looks like a dream that nobody else ever really built on.

Also:

the story doesn't click

It's meant to be kind of funny. It's just every conspiracy theory happening at once. There isn't a great deal of substance to the story or world, but you just have to let yourself be carried by the superb atmosphere and mood, which is bolstered massively by the soundtrack.

Even the memes are poor, as the voice acting is horrible.

This is the story/setting's appeal - it's a bad 90s cyberpunk B-movie in game form.

 

[Ash]

All in all, I'm still struggling to find what people like about this game, it does nothing really well.

So you hate all RPGs? Because this is all RPGs. Typically imperfect but broad gameplay.

Anyways, Deus Ex does many things well, even before you apply the mod to fix up all the many rough edges. Let's just focus on the gameplay:

Absolute Peak Highlights:

1. The level design is fucking fantastic, one of the finest examples in the industry despite the rough edges e.g the first handful of levels are a bit raw.
2. It offers unrivalled freedom of choice and all gameplay choices have weight or purpose (outside of quite a few balance issues, like the regen aug).
3. Combines multi-genre gameplay well (stealth, shooting, platforming, exploration/navigation, character building and other RPG elements, puzzle elements, resource & inventory management). Many games have tried it since, but often they're lacking the same level of soul/effort and depth.
4. It has its priorities perfectly straight as a game striving for some degree of realism and immersion. All the things that should be gamey, are (some examples: accuracy system, skill system, cloak aug everyone instantly detects you if fire your gun), otherwise everything has details and efforts crammed in to create a sense of organic realism where it doesn't impede on gameplay. Instead, it often enhances it.
5. All the very many little details and nuances which really add up. the Fallout localized health system in an action game. The ability to throw mostly anything in the environment around. All the many hidden secrets the game has. Its method of xp reward instead of given by enemies as is still the standard. The ability to blow up doors with a rocket launcher. The list is huge.

Also of note, but less significant:

1. It has very good NPC reactivity to your gameplay choices, which can also have gameplay results. e.g less or more pay from your boss for your police work in NYC.
2. The weapon upgrade system was peak back in the day. Still great now though you come to learn (if you commit to many playthroughs, digging through code, experimentation) that almost half of them are useless.
3. It offered full non-lethal which while rather banal was unique at the time. It also offered full stealth or combat options (or hybrid style) which was also unique back in the day for an action game.
4. The accuracy system results in unique tactical combat and stealth unlike any other game, and before you obtain 100% accuracy it encourages creative alternate solutions to problems.
5. Augs and depth of aug choices in combination other RPG systems which allowed you to become a superman of your choosing. It's not so impressive now as every game these days is a lite Action RPG hybrid, but back then there was nothing quite like it in the 3D action space. Only the System Shock games came close. There's other examples: Castlevania: SOTN but that's 2D. Ultima Underworld but the RPG systems are kind of shit. Kings Field but the RPG systems are kind of shit. Daggerfall but the RPG systems are kind of shit....

This is without getting into the amazing soundtrack, awesome story, cool varied setting and globe-trotting adventure. So in summary you're a dumb Russian that can't filter what is incline if it slapped you in the face. Sadly this is one form of retardation of many that seems to afflict the population that walks among us.

Also note that the perception some have of the game is hurt by playstyle: playing strict stealth roles results in an inferior game. Ghost for sure (you miss half the content, lol), non-lethal for sure (severely restricts choices, tools, upgrade paths, rewards given for exploration, fun). Lethal stealth is a lot more fun, and my favorite is combat or a hybrid of the two. Forget ghost or non-lethal it's replay material at best to try something new. This is further compounded by some very dire core stealth gameplay design fumbles (the AI is kind of retarded, yet psychic at the same time, for example). Combat has a shit ton of flaws too but has a lot of cool stuff to distract from them, and the issues aren't quite as integral to the experience.

 

[gabel]

It's not like I haven't tried before. G-Darius, R-Type, Desert Strike, Gradius, Raiden, Einhander, Asteroids, Space Invaders, Ex Machina and others. Zzz

I am just trying what is claimed to be the best of the genre as per a genre vet. See if there is something more to it.

Play CAVE shmups, 1CC just one.
But you're too unsophisticated; pretending to be a gameplay-fag, not appreciating shmups, but enjoying trash like Darkwood.
The fucking lack of self-awareness.

 

[Ash]

Darkwood is gameplayfag you silly bastard. You'd know that if you weren't such a decline fag.

Lol pretending sophistication is required to understand shmups. I'm gonna give Falski's game a go, if I catch autism I'll see you regularly at the arcade with my spiderman t-shirt, star wars watch and cheetos dust all over my face. We can talk about our rerun marathons of Dragonball Z.

 

[gabel]

They're best played with an arcade stick; and you've gotta find your style of shmup.
That takes time and dedication. Don't force yourself if you don't feel like it, but realise you're missing out on one of the purest gameplay-genres.

 

[Ash]

AUTIST TRIGGER WARNING: well, I gave it a try. It has some baseline appeal as expected (music, art, and otherwise is just challenge-focused), but it was also pretty standard very barebones stuff also as expected, and also not much different from the 200 other shmups out there. It's weird the enemies don't flash when you hit them, but no big deal. Also it's cool you can change fire mode to shoot forward, behind, below/above, or a cross trajectory. However, your special attack does not follow this aim/mode configuration, always only shooting forward, which is pretty lame. Soon enough I lost my first continue. Which is normal when starting out and the fact you die in one fricken bullet or collision, and was sent back to the start of the level. FUCK this there is almost no variation to the gameplay. It's too damn basic. You're completely on rails. the entire time. enemies move and attack strictly in pre-determined movement paths. This is FAR too barebones 80s garbage. It's literally whack-a-mole with nice dressing and some powerups. Things pop on the screen and you whack them while avoiding the bullets. I'll stick to G-Darius as the only partially interesting shmup I've ever played. It has all the same shit + branching paths, the best music, capture enemy ships, super beams and beam counters, complex and dynamic enemy routines, partial reduction of repetition (you get a reliable shield and again, branching paths, enemy weapons etc). Still fricken barebones but it has something going for it. I need a little more complexity to invest in and engage the brain than tic tac toe or whack-a-mole.

 

[gabel]

You gave it 90 minutes?

 

[Ash]

absolutely not, torture!

It's not for me, sorry. That level of simplicity will never click, in addition to the awful repetition. I always looked at people who could play dead simple games forever as crazy. Like everyone would endlessly play Tetris back in the day whereas I'd just play one or two games at a time, only once ever going to completion just to prove I could, and then completely done with it. Even then I never found it very engaging. What else is there to enjoy? I grew up from the start with games with many more variables/complexity so I guess it never cut it for me. Not that I can't enjoy or appreciate simple games, but there is a baseline cutoff. G-Darius is the bare minimum I'd say.

 

[gabel]

You're not a gameplayfag then.
These games are a hundred times more complex from a gameplay-perspective than Darkwood.

 

[Ash]

EXPLAIN IT THEN. Neither of you have, just "one CC and you will be a dweeb like one of us!" It's like you're trolling me telling me I have to play it in one credit (to make me go through torture) and then suddenly the gameplay gets 100x more complex, which is laughable. The reality is autism, I'm sorry to inform you.

Darkwood has inventory management and around 100 items to manage, pretty deep interactivity with the environment, more complex AI, hardcore navigation, environmental hazards, random elements for replayability/repetition reduction, RPG lite systems (perks and wep upgrades), throwing/melee/ballistic/trap weapons, night time segments with wave gameplay, puzzle elements, stamina system lighting and vision cone are huge factors to consider at all times, and plenty more. You're absurd.

 

[gabel]

Darkwood has busy-work, shmups have gameplay.
Sorry, I don't feel like explaining, you won't get it anyway.

 

[Ash]

You haven't got shit.

And Darkwood is almost pure gameplay. Sure you can liken the inventory management of it (20% of the gameplay) as busy-work. It's certainly not pure skill like shmups but more strategy (which is still a form of skill mind you), but what about the rest? e.g Combat, puzzles, navigation. Furthermore everything must be considered in tandem (where am I going, why, do i have the resources, am I good enough at fighting/have enough health to even survive?) Skill, not busy work.

Anyways, comparisons of Darkwood and shmups are dumb, as they are rather different games, Darkwood being slow-paced, 100x more complex and methodical. I prefer to compare fast real time action games on the whole to shmups. Ninja Gaiden 2004. Doom. Sekiro. Mario 3. Literally anything where you're NOT on rails the entire time, only have one weapon, die in one bullet to extract dem CCs, have no other variables to consider except move and shoot. Explain the appeal in that? The only thing that makes sense at all is the competition of pure skill (which is more a social dweeb-only component than it is gameplay itself), but other arcade genres do that better or in a more interesting way anyway e.g arena beat em ups.

What it could be, is just you guys addicted to the rush of getting so good at it, not dying, being surrounded by bullets intensely dodging and blasting between them. That + dweeb credit or sense of accomplishment afterward. Yet as I said before, you can create those same results or similar in most genres (iron man + highest difficulty etc).

 

[Nutmeg]

It's not like I haven't tried before. G-Darius, R-Type, Desert Strike, Gradius, Raiden, Einhander, Asteroids, Space Invaders, Ex Machina and others. Zzz

I am just trying what is claimed to be the best of the genre as per a genre vet. See if there is something more to it.

I keep telling you to try batrider but you never do for some reason.

 

[Stella Brando]

Stop Asking Me to Play Dark Souls

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Ash 'ave you played Battle Brothers yet, mate?

 

[Ash]

Looks alright. It mentions permadeath of characters but nothing of saving...what's game saving like? I only enjoy tactics games if they have proper iron man or some form of restrictive saving, which almost all of them do. Monocled genre.

It's not like I haven't tried before. G-Darius, R-Type, Desert Strike, Gradius, Raiden, Einhander, Asteroids, Space Invaders, Ex Machina and others. Zzz

I am just trying what is claimed to be the best of the genre as per a genre vet. See if there is something more to it.

I keep telling you to try batrider but you never do for some reason.

Maybe : )

Stop Asking Me to Play Dark Souls

He should really play Dark Souls though, it's a gud game.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

You have to play it. It's one of the great gems of post-decline gaming, and arguably the greatest tactics game ever. As far as saving, you can enable Ironman mode during campaign creation, in which case, you only get one save-game automatically saved and whoever dies, dies.

I know a lot of edgelords here love Jagged Alliance 2, but for my money, Battle Brothers is about 20 times more fun.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

These lists are simply made to generate controversy which translate into clicks. Stella Brando is some weird robotic tranny who likes to post shit content for reasons unknown.

 

[Stella Brando]

Im not robotic.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

These lists are simply made to generate controversy which translate into clicks. Stella Brando is some weird robotic tranny who likes to post shit content for reasons unknown.

When was the last time this was a viable strategy to generate traffic to a site? Some site post a trolly shit Top 100 list. One person from some forum that saw the list post the whole list somewhere else and everyone makes fun of it where they are without ever visiting the site.

If anything it does the total opposite now and keeps people away from the site. You could say it generates word of mouth. It’s got you thinking of whoever again...I can’t remember the last time I thought of RockPaperShotgun. But when the word of mouth is they're fucking idiots with shit taste it doesn’t exact ingratiate one to them and make you want to see what else they have to say about anything.

It probably stopped being a way to generate traffic when sites started getting thin skinned and removed the comment section on pages where people might tell them how fucking stupid they are.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Those lists are the worst. If it was just an entire shit list, everyone would ignore it, but they sprinkle in a few legendary games in there, to lend it some authenticity, and then fill the rest of it with some trash that came out in the last couple of years (ie the only games the journos there played).

 

[911 Jumper]

With the exception of a few entries, the list is very “hipster gamer”.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

It goes beyond just being some hipster gamer list. It’s just totally nonsensical. It’s like some weird combination of hipster picks, things they think they need their or the average gamer might get mad, and random shit they remembered existed. It also feels like a list made by people that only started playing PC games (or maybe just games in general) around 2010. There’s numerous things there that just make you go: Why is this here in lieu of some other title? And not even some other title within the same genre, but within the same series. You’d normally expect a greatest PC games of all-time list to be made up of older games, but everything on that is from 2010 and onwards barring a handful of large well known titles.

I guess they do a Top 100 Greatest PC Games Of All-Time every year. Not following RockPaperShotgun, that was something I wasn’t aware of. Seems pretty funny. Unless they have a substantial staff turnover every year, a new Top PC Games of All-Time list every year seems a little excessive barring some big thing happening like Nintendo officially releasing their whole back category on PC, creating some giant influx of “new” PC games.