Mass Effect 2 also all the way near the top?!
Never trust any top 100 which has either 0 or few entries from huge genres such as SHMUPs, Beat Em Ups and Strategy games. Any journo who can't find 1 game from each big genre for a top 100 hasn't played enough games, and shouldn't be a journo in the first place.
Yeah, I've been playing computer games for right about 40 years, and I've never found a SHMUP or Beat'em'up that I found engaging. They're just very firmly not my cup of tea.Never trust any top 100 which has either 0 or few entries from huge genres such as SHMUPs, Beat Em Ups and Strategy games. Any journo who can't find 1 game from each big genre for a top 100 hasn't played enough games, and shouldn't be a journo in the first place.
Oof. You wouldn't trust my top 100 list then. Maybe 2 entries at best each of SHMUP and Beat em ups. Various forms of strategy games (mainly turn-based tactics) would fare a lot better, 6 or 7 entries maybe. Next to no shmup or beat em ups would probably would still remain true for my top 500 too.
It's fine if a journalist doesn't play every genre, but then he also shouldn't pretend to universally know what's best. And there are always colleagues to discuss games and rankings with.Never trust any top 100 which has either 0 or few entries from huge genres such as SHMUPs, Beat Em Ups and Strategy games. Any journo who can't find 1 game from each big genre for a top 100 hasn't played enough games, and shouldn't be a journo in the first place.
To be fair though Ash, that's a personal list, which is fair enough.Never trust any top 100 which has either 0 or few entries from huge genres such as SHMUPs, Beat Em Ups and Strategy games. Any journo who can't find 1 game from each big genre for a top 100 hasn't played enough games, and shouldn't be a journo in the first place.
Oof. You wouldn't trust my top 100 list then. Maybe 2 entries at best each of SHMUP and Beat em ups. Various forms of strategy games (mainly turn-based tactics) would fare a lot better, 6 or 7 entries maybe. Next to no shmup or beat em ups would probably would still remain true for my top 500 too.
Yeah, I've been playing computer games for right about 40 years, and I've never found a SHMUP or Beat'em'up that I found engaging. They're just very firmly not my cup of tea.Never trust any top 100 which has either 0 or few entries from huge genres such as SHMUPs, Beat Em Ups and Strategy games. Any journo who can't find 1 game from each big genre for a top 100 hasn't played enough games, and shouldn't be a journo in the first place.
Oof. You wouldn't trust my top 100 list then. Maybe 2 entries at best each of SHMUP and Beat em ups. Various forms of strategy games (mainly turn-based tactics) would fare a lot better, 6 or 7 entries maybe. Next to no shmup or beat em ups would probably would still remain true for my top 500 too.
But you're playing them casually, which is why you find them simple.Yeah, I've been playing computer games for right about 40 years, and I've never found a SHMUP or Beat'em'up that I found engaging. They're just very firmly not my cup of tea.Never trust any top 100 which has either 0 or few entries from huge genres such as SHMUPs, Beat Em Ups and Strategy games. Any journo who can't find 1 game from each big genre for a top 100 hasn't played enough games, and shouldn't be a journo in the first place.
Oof. You wouldn't trust my top 100 list then. Maybe 2 entries at best each of SHMUP and Beat em ups. Various forms of strategy games (mainly turn-based tactics) would fare a lot better, 6 or 7 entries maybe. Next to no shmup or beat em ups would probably would still remain true for my top 500 too.
But I do find them engaging, in the right context: multiplayer for beat em ups. Shmups for a very brief time when there isn't better options, say at an arcade or just to try something new. I have appreciation for most forms of pure gaming. I just very strongly believe they shouldn't be anywhere near the top of a list of the absolute greatest games, as the content is simply not there. They're VERY simple games.
Does the game suddenly grow more levels, gameplay mechanics, systems, choices and content when you try for top score? Or even secondary, less important elements (music, story, art etc). No. All that happens is more strategies become relevant, which by the way is absolutely the same as in any other game. e.g you can try pistol start in doom. Or you can try iron man in doom. In doing either, different strategies and tactics come into play. But that's all.But you're playing them casually, which is why you find them simple.
SHMUPS have as much depth as some RPGs if you aim to 1CC or no-death run them, especially at harder levels. People don't appreciate their brilliance because they don't play them in the way which gets the most from them. I guarentee that if you take the time to 1CC games such as Hellfire, DoDonPachi, Eliminate Down etc. you will come back buzzing and feeling accomplished like few other games have ever made you feel.
Don't just try Hellfire, beat Hellfire. Then beat it 1CC, then beat it on Hard, then no death run it, then beat it on Yea Right (tough ask mind). It's depth is in it's evolving challenge, not it's mechanics or choice etc. Like most of the best of these games, the challenge evolves way better than the usual HP bloat you get in a lot of RPGs.Does the game suddenly grow more levels, gameplay mechanics, systems, choices and content when you try for top score? Or even secondary, less important elements (music, story, art etc). No. All that happens is more strategies become relevant, which by the way is absolutely the same as in any other game. e.g you can try pistol start in doom. Or you can try iron man in doom. In doing either, different strategies and tactics come into play. But that's all.But you're playing them casually, which is why you find them simple.
SHMUPS have as much depth as some RPGs if you aim to 1CC or no-death run them, especially at harder levels. People don't appreciate their brilliance because they don't play them in the way which gets the most from them. I guarentee that if you take the time to 1CC games such as Hellfire, DoDonPachi, Eliminate Down etc. you will come back buzzing and feeling accomplished like few other games have ever made you feel.
I have tried to play them hardcore. They lose appeal fast as they're so barebones and also result in a lot of repetition. Please explain your case in great detail, on the slim chance I am wrong.
Since this isn't the first time we've argued on this, I will try your Hellfire. Today. Will report back later.
Ha, I don't see it as being a purist, it's just playing the games how they were designed to be played. Great Deceiver, Nutmeg and a few others on here know the score with SMHUPs. Once they snag you mate they snag hard.Big ask to get me to play a whack-a-mole em' up for more than 30 mins One completion, you've seen most of what is on offer.
For you, and in the pursuit of learning and truth, I will try. I hope I don't catch autism.
Yeah RPGs often have major challenge issues for sure. But almost all other genres usually have a better grasp of challenge than RPGs. I don't see the need to go to shmups for that. Plus challenge is way more interesting when there is more variables than just move and shoot involved.
Honestly, most of those are pretty slow & methodical SHMUPs. Thunderforce 3 is one I'd strongly suggest trying too, very accessible.It's not like I haven't tried before. G-Darius, R-Type, Desert Strike, Gradius, Raiden, Einhander, Asteroids, Space Invaders, Ex Machina and others. Zzz
I am just trying what is claimed to be the best of the genre as per a genre vet. See if there is something more to it.