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Ultima The Ultima Series Discussion Thread

What is your favorite Ultima game?


  • Total voters
    351

Bruma Hobo

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I don't know, maybe every top-down and isometric plot-heavy game that features recruitable companions with distinct personalities? Or every open-ended game with lots of content and a continuous and coherent world to explore? Or maybe every sandbox game that lets the player fuck around, build things and toy with the interactive world (like Minecraft)? And that's ignoring all the quality of life features that only improved since the early days of drag and drop interfaces.
 

Jarpie

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Codex 2012 MCA
There's already patch for Ultima 5, which adds some music into the game:
http://exodus.voyd.net/projects/ultima5/
  • The game plays “Ultima Theme” to the main menu.
  • I added various songs from U5 to the Introduction and Endgame sequences. I tried to choose songs that best fit the sequences.
  • The Character Creation sequence plays the Amiga music.
  • The game plays the Apple II / Commodore 128 arrangement of songs in their appropriate places in the game. I received most of this information from playing parts of these versions on an emulator and from other Dragons on news:rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons.
  • I made sure that Death and the Blackthorn capture sequence were both handled properly: no music should be playing during these sequences.
  • Some people are not aware that you can Exit to DOS using “CTL-E” during the game. Unfortunately, you cannot use it all the time, for example, during combat or dungeon rooms which is a big disadvantage. While I hope to add that capability in a future release, and perhaps even a restore feature, I did add the ability to exit in three key places of the game: the main menu, the last scene of the endgame sequence, and the “bad” ending. (the one if you tell LB “no”)
  • Since the Tandy video driver is no longer in use, I used that as a good place to store the name of the midi driver, MID.DRV. This is included in DATA.OVL, where all the game data is stored, and this is the only update that needs to be made to that file. To conserve zip file size and reduce the amount of original game files that I am including in this package, I’ve decided to write a separate patch, “U5DATA.EXE” which will make this update for you. Please execute this before you begin the game or the MIDI will not work.
  • The MIDI files have been enhanced and suited to the game setting for their appropriate scenes. I have also improved most of the MIDI files such that they loop more smoothly.

Not sure if Ultima 5 really requires more, I've played Ultima 5 with this patch and at least to my ears, the music worked.
 

Grauken

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I don't know, maybe every top-down and isometric plot-heavy game that features recruitable companions with distinct personalities? Or every open-ended game with lots of content and a continuous and coherent world to explore? Or maybe every sandbox game that lets the player fuck around, build things and toy with the interactive world (like Minecraft)? And that's ignoring all the quality of life features that only improved since the early days of drag and drop interfaces.

I did that argument recently in the trigger the codex thread, but I didn't expect someone would seriously argue that

That's the same line of thinking that would seriously argue why would anybody play Dungeon Master, we have Legend of Grimrock, or even better, why play Wizardry 7, we have modern open-world RPGs like Skyrim

It takes lineage and declares every past example as outdated because there are newer games. U6 has a perfectly fine inventory, fine combat, superior dialogue system (I prefer keyword systems), tiled (grid-based) graphics, which I prefer over continuous graphic representations, excellent pixel art

There have been games inspired by U6, but the only games that directly iterated on U6 have been much more inferior (the various indie games with a very similar look)
 
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Tweed

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I was never exactly impressed with U6, but I only played it later, after playing 4 5 and 7 multiple times. 6 was kind of hard to approach for whatever reason. While expanding the world was impressive at the time (no overworld maps) travelling from place to place could get tiresome and combat for me really wasn't that much fun, it became a real mercy when I could cast kill and be done with it. The "racism is bad, they're just like us, also religion is bad and probably causes racism too" plot wasn't exactly engaging for me either, but it may be more a matter of when I played it versus the others. I did enjoy training Sherry to become a deadly sniper though, good thing magic armor is one size fits all.
 

Cael

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I was never exactly impressed with U6, but I only played it later, after playing 4 5 and 7 multiple times. 6 was kind of hard to approach for whatever reason. While expanding the world was impressive at the time (no overworld maps) travelling from place to place could get tiresome and combat for me really wasn't that much fun, it became a real mercy when I could cast kill and be done with it. The "racism is bad, they're just like us, also religion is bad and probably causes racism too" plot wasn't exactly engaging for me either, but it may be more a matter of when I played it versus the others. I did enjoy training Sherry to become a deadly sniper though, good thing magic armor is one size fits all.
Ultima isn't about "racism is bad" or "religion is bad". It is about "don't believe the hype of people trying to deceive you to rule over you". From Ultima 5 onwards, the theme has been about how something that looks Good on the surface is actually a whole lot of BAD when you delve into it a bit more.

Ultima 5 took a look at what happens when you took the Virtues (a Good thing) too far. Tolerance became intolerance, charity became mandatory, and humility because submission. Does that sound familiar? It should. It is exactly how the sjws of today are twisting the virtues, the most obvious being their intolerance mislabeled as tolerance.

Ultima 6 started off with a bunch of gargoyles trying to sacrifice you. The entire game had you piling on the hate on the gargoyles, with story after story of atrocities and death. It was only when you finally get to the bottom of Hythloth that you are given the other side of the story. The deception by the devs was deliberate. They were trying to steer you in a certain way until the wham moment. And it worked. At least the first time you played it.

The whole point of Ultima 7: The Black Gate is about fucking sjws being deceitful bags of shit. They espoused ideas that on the surface was Good, but even a beggar (literally!) could see how bad they were. But many people were blinded by it and fanatically followed it to the point that they were committing murders because of it. No, I don't mean Elizabeth, Abraham, Batlin and gang. I am talking people like the head dick in Trinsic who was complicit in the murder of Christopher and the head bitch in Minoc who had the gypsies killed. That head idiot in Paws killed Nelson and Lady Tory in Underworld 2 even after the Fellowship was exposed to be corrupt and Evil. That is the kind of hold sjw-ism have on people. And we see it all over the place in real life today.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Ultima is so enduring because it speaks to the human nature. It accurately describes the human condition, which is why it basically predicted today's problems 20+ years ago. Its themes are eternal.
 

Bruma Hobo

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I did that argument recently in the trigger the codex thread, but I didn't expect someone would seriously argue that

That's the same line of thinking that would seriously argue why would anybody play Dungeon Master, we have Legend of Grimrock, or even better, why play Wizardry 7, we have modern open-world RPGs like Skyrim

It takes lineage and declares every past example as outdated because there are newer games. U6 has a perfectly fine inventory, fine combat, superior dialogue system (I prefer keyword systems), tiled (grid-based) graphics, which I prefer over continuous graphic representations, excellent pixel art

There have been games inspired by U6, but the only games that directly iterated on U6 have been much more inferior (the various indie games with a very similar look)
But the industry didn't make thousands of number crunchers (only because of that you can still recommend Wizardry 7 to any grognard), and Dungeon Master is still better designed than Grimrock. If there were thousands of games successfully cloning Ultima IV, Darklands, Arcanum or Planescape: Torment, nobody would give a crap about the originals, other than for historical reasons. That's what happened to Ultima VI, there were thousands of games making the same but better, perhaps not with the exact combination of features, but they are better at scratching the itches Ultima VI used to scratch at the time.

If I wanted to fuck around in an immersive virtual world back in 1990, there weren't many games to choose from, and Ultima VI clearly stood out at the time. Today you have games like Grand Theft Auto, Morrowind, The Witcher 3 and Kingdom Come: Deliverance, and all of them have more detailed and interesting worlds to explore than Britannia.

If I wanted a sandbox experience back then, Ultima VI with some very basic crafting options, its interactive items, and some rudimentary physics, was godsend. Today, nothing of that is really that special compared to dozens of MMOs, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, or even Ultima VII and Underworld.

If I wanted a plot-heavy RPG with many fun characters, there weren't many options at the time. Today it seems like every single RPG needs tons of NPCs and romanceable companions ( :decline: ), and while Ultima VI is still a nicely written and charismatic game, there isn't enough plot or talking companions to be considered a story-driven game by today's standards, and it's obvious that many other titles like Ultima VII, Betrayal at Krondor, Planescape: Torment, Expeditions: Conquistador and Disco Elysium are leagues above Ultima VI in terms of writing anyways.

That's undeniable and the whole reason why Ultima VI is doing poorly in this very poll compared to Ultima IV, V or VII. This game at the time was considered a huge improvement and pretty unique, but today it's just that unremarkable mid-series title.
 

Grauken

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Mar 22, 2013
Messages
13,329
I did that argument recently in the trigger the codex thread, but I didn't expect someone would seriously argue that

That's the same line of thinking that would seriously argue why would anybody play Dungeon Master, we have Legend of Grimrock, or even better, why play Wizardry 7, we have modern open-world RPGs like Skyrim

It takes lineage and declares every past example as outdated because there are newer games. U6 has a perfectly fine inventory, fine combat, superior dialogue system (I prefer keyword systems), tiled (grid-based) graphics, which I prefer over continuous graphic representations, excellent pixel art

There have been games inspired by U6, but the only games that directly iterated on U6 have been much more inferior (the various indie games with a very similar look)
But the industry didn't make thousands of number crunchers (only because of that you can still recommend Wizardry 7 to any grognard), and Dungeon Master is still better designed than Grimrock. If there were thousands of games successfully cloning Ultima IV, Darklands, Arcanum or Planescape: Torment, nobody would give a crap about the originals, other than for historical reasons. That's what happened to Ultima VI, there were thousands of games making the same but better, perhaps not with the exact combination of features, but they are better at scratching the itches Ultima VI used to scratch at the time.

If I wanted to fuck around in an immersive virtual world back in 1990, there weren't many games to choose from, and Ultima VI clearly stood out at the time. Today you have games like Grand Theft Auto, Morrowind, The Witcher 3 and Kingdom Come: Deliverance, and all of them have more detailed and interesting worlds to explore than Britannia.

If I wanted a sandbox experience back then, Ultima VI with some very basic crafting options, its interactive items, and some rudimentary physics, was godsend. Today, nothing of that is really that special compared to dozens of MMOs, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, or even Ultima VII and Underworld.

If I wanted a plot-heavy RPG with many fun characters, there weren't many options at the time. Today it seems like every single RPG needs tons of NPCs and romanceable companions ( :decline: ), and while Ultima VI is still a nicely written and charismatic game, there isn't enough plot or talking companions to be considered a story-driven game by today's standards, and it's obvious that many other titles like Ultima VII, Betrayal at Krondor, Planescape: Torment, Expeditions: Conquistador and Disco Elysium are leagues above Ultima VI in terms of writing anyways.

That's undeniable and the whole reason why Ultima VI is doing poorly in this very poll compared to Ultima IV, V or VII. This game at the time was considered a huge improvement and pretty unique, but today it's just that unremarkable mid-series title.

I think we speak different languages, lets leave it at that
 

Bruma Hobo

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Ultima isn't about "racism is bad" or "religion is bad". It is about "don't believe the hype of people trying to deceive you to rule over you". From Ultima 5 onwards, the theme has been about how something that looks Good on the surface is actually a whole lot of BAD when you delve into it a bit more.

Ultima 5 took a look at what happens when you took the Virtues (a Good thing) too far. Tolerance became intolerance, charity became mandatory, and humility because submission. Does that sound familiar? It should. It is exactly how the sjws of today are twisting the virtues, the most obvious being their intolerance mislabeled as tolerance.

Ultima 6 started off with a bunch of gargoyles trying to sacrifice you. The entire game had you piling on the hate on the gargoyles, with story after story of atrocities and death. It was only when you finally get to the bottom of Hythloth that you are given the other side of the story. The deception by the devs was deliberate. They were trying to steer you in a certain way until the wham moment. And it worked. At least the first time you played it.

You silly sod. The whole message of Ultima IV was "clean your penis, bucko" and "Infinity is behind all good". Garriott perhaps didn't realize it at first, but parroting about God while advocating for self-improvement and responsibility instead of blaming the evil white man was a no-no for a young democrat. So of course he had to go full woke and undermine his own creation.

So Ultima V was about joining Antifa and overthrowing Reagan because the virtues were suddenly evil, while Ultima VI was about the Avatar (Garriott) feeling sorry for being a straight white male blinded by his own privilege. Retrieving the Codex was evil after all, you see? Ultima IV was just wrong because it puts the blame on the underprivileged and not on the real oppressors. So you must become a cuck, wear the Amulet of Submission (I'm not kidding), and advocate for open borders policies and tolerance, because those seemingly evil jihadists are not evil, you see, they're just misunderstood, so they have no blame, it's all your fault. And hey, their backwards satanic religion? It's just as good as yours!
 

Bruma Hobo

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:hmmm:

While it was obviously a tongue and cheek post, I wasn't trying to troll anyone here. You can't just say with a straight face that these games are not about saying "racism is bad" or "certain silly religion is bad" (because scientology was an easier target than more mainstream religions). This is an obviously left-leaning series, and what you believe are universal themes today, were clearly aimed attacks at very specific targets thirty years ago (and perhaps deservedly so, but I would bet my ass that Garriott today has nothing against modern SJWs, since he wasn't fighting against political correctness in general, he was just against the reaganite moral majority).

And if games like Ultima VI (featuring clear white guilt and a sympathetic race of victims of western ignorance) were released today the whole codex would be boycotting Origin Systems and accusing Garriott of being a huge SJW.
 

Strange Fellow

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I'm confused. If you think the left-wing undercurrent of the Ultimas was "perhaps justified" then you obviously were trolling with that post. Got me good, too.

And if games like Ultima VI (featuring clear white guilt and a sympathetic race of victims of western ignorance) were released today the whole codex would be boycotting Origin Systems and accusing Garriott of being a huge SJW.
Right, because they're idiots.
 

Bruma Hobo

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Messages
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I wasn't trolling, I was just being openly silly. But my point still stands.


And for those in need of quest compasses, here's Ultima IV explained by Nietzsche:

The desire for suffering. - When I think of the desire to do something, how it continually tickles and goads the millions of young Europeans who cannot endure boredom and themselves, I realize that they must have a yearning to suffer something in order to make their suffering a likely reason for action, for deeds. Neediness is needed! Hence the clamour of the politicians; hence the many false, fictitious, exaggerated 'emergencies' of all kinds and the blind readiness to believe in them.
This young world demands that not happiness, but unhappiness should approach or become visible from outside; and its imagination is already busy turning this unhappiness into a monster ahead of time so that afterwards it can fight a monster. Were these distress-addicts to feel within themselves the power to do themselves good from within, to do something for themselves, they would know how to create their very own distress. Their inventions could then become more refined and their satisfactions sound like good music, while they now fill the world with their clamour about distress, and consequently, all too often with the feeling of distress! They do not know what to do with themselves - and so they paint the unhappiness of others on the wall; they always need others! And continually other others! - Pardon me, my friends, I have ventured to paint my happiness on the wall.
This is why the soon-to-be-Avatar starts out as a depressed young man at the very beginning of the game, why he ends up fighting himself at the bottom of the Stygian Abyss, why he returns to Earth right after finding the Codex, why Britannia (and Earth) is at peace (Mondain is dead! Minax is dead! Exodus is dead!), why "we must turn inward" to become an Avatar.

Ultima IV is not necessarily about being a good person, and is certainly not about a specific moral code. It's about finding happiness in self improvement, since trying to improve the world around you (which is the plot of every other RPG ever) is not just futile, it's also dangerous. Ultima IV is not about saving the whole realm, it's about saving the individual, and in fact Britannia is saving you. At the end of the game the Avatar no longer needs to defeat a big evil and save others to be a hero, because he just conquered himself.

Which is all fine and dandy, but it's also a pretty individualistic right-wing message (the whole "wash your penis, bucko"). According to Ultima IV the world is working just fine, and there is no oppression. The poor are poor not because there's a system rigged against them, but because they're not virtuous enough. There is no big evil to be fought because we're all living in peace, and the system is working as intended... Which is obviously not true, at least according to the left.

This explains why Ultima VI was suddenly about oppression. Britannia was blinded by privilege, the surface seemed fine, but the underworld was collapsing (the capitalist system is not working as intended, the poor are dying!). By becoming the Avatar and retrieving the Codex of Ultimate Wisdom, by pretending that everything's just fine in the world, you're just oppressing those poor silent gargoyles. We must share our first-world lands and riches, since it's all our fault! Ultima VI was definitely a woke game, as it was Garriott asking for forgiveness after making such an ignorant game as Ultima IV.

Now downvote me if you must.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Nah, it's something I came up with independently.

The Gargoyles became a stand-in for ethnic minorities only in Ultima VII. That idea was retconned onto Ultima VI, even by Richard Garriott himself, who described it as being about "social tolerance" even though the Gargoyles weren't yet part of Britannian society at that point. Look at when the game was developed (1988-1990) and the Cold War interpretation just makes a lot of sense.
 

Shinji

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Lord British was such a great guy
In 1994, Richard Garriott opened up his own home to create a role-playing spook house. It required over a hundred people to construct and run, $100k of his own money, and was free to the general public.


Also, not sure if old but
This was the day we learned that our project Ultima Online 2 was canceled as well as our company, Origin Systems.
 
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Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
For Ultima IX's 20th anniversary, new docs released: https://ultimacodex.com/2019/11/new-gallery-bill-randolphs-ultima-9-post-mortem-report/

New Gallery: Bill Randolph’s Ultima 9 Post-Mortem Report
BY WTF DRAGON · NOVEMBER 23, 2019

U9_Post-Mortem01_cropped-720x340.jpg


To mark the 20th anniversary of the release of Ultima 9 — the last numbered, single-player entry in the Ultima series; it launched on November 23rd, 1999 — the Ultima Codex is pleased to share this technically detailed, impassioned, and engagingly-written post-mortem report which offers a fair-minded and multi-faceted look at the development of the game.

Bill Randolph — for those of you unfamiliar with him — worked on the networking and multiplayer systems for Command & Conquer at Westwood Studios before moving over to Origin Systems in the late 1990s, whereat he took on the role of lead programmer for the Ultima 9 project. He spoke at length about his time at Origin — and both the joys and tribulations of working on Ultima 9 — in an interview with WtF Dragon (also available as a podcast episode). And if you are familiar with that interview, the contents of the report — which Bill prepared after the game had shipped and the project had been wrapped up — will be familiar to you.

The report is broken into four sections.

The first section is an extensive history lesson, which discusses the genesis of the Ultima 9 engine (as a fork of the Ultima 8 engine), the intrusion of Ultima Online’s resource needs into Ultima 9’s initial development team, and the way in which then-project lead Mike McShaffry resurrected the game from cancellation by adding support for Glide 3D acceleration to the engine (a change which didn’t restart heavy development of the game, but allowed Origin to keep a couple of programmers tasked to work on it). The transition of the project to Ed del Castillo’s leadership is also discussed, including his defense of the project from the demand that it incorporate a multiplayer element. We learn that almost the entire design team quit at one point due to conflicts with del Castillo and Richard Garriott, the onboarding of new team members, and the work that was done to improve, refactor and upgrade the game’s engine to make it run better, and to add support for the emergent Direct3D rendering technology. All in all, it’s an intense technical deep dive that highlights many challenges with Ultima 9’s engine and art, as well as shedding light on some of the internal politics at Origin and EA that flared up during its development.

The second section builds upon the first, highlighting significant problems that cropped up during Ultima 9’s development cycle. The issues that Bill highlights in particular are the time constraints that the development teams operated under, an incoherent or entirely lacking production vision, a reactive development model that was always playing “catch up” to problems, ineffective communication between the production and design teams, a lack of proper benchmarking and performance testing, an arduous and problematic “integration phase”, and various other problems that cropped up with architecture and technology.

The third section strikes a more positive note, however; in it, the good Mr. Randolph focuses on the victories that were achieved during Ultima 9’s development. Notably, he highlights the dedication of the development team, and emphasizes that the project was very much a labour of love for all involved; he leaves no room to argue that Ultima 9 was developed by people ignorant of Ultima or uninterested in the series. He also highlights — distinct from the production vision mentioned above — the very consistent creative vision that animated the project from start to finish; it is in this section that Bill cheekily (and correctly) notes that while that creative vision wouldn’t be likely to gel with every expectation of Ultima fans, there is nothing which would have. Other notable victories in Ultima 9’s development that are given some focus are the effective management of crunch times, the high quality of the tools used to create the game, and a number of software architectural positives.

Finally, the closing section of the report offers up a few of Bill’s notes on lessons learned, as well as some vows he makes to himself to be mindful of as he moves forward in his career. In particular, he both urges — and, to himself, promises — that one should never work under a “Sword of Damocles”-type threatpoint, that one should re-write (code, stories, and whatever else may be in need of it) both early and often, the urgency of being true to the product, and that dedication is more important than anything.

It’s a fascinating — and painstakingly fair — analysis, overall, and it is written in an engaging and personable style. Give it a read!

http://gallery.ultimacodex.com/ultima-9-post-mortem-report/
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
Will read it tomorrow, but I'm fully aware of the date and significance of it, even though I didn't get the game myself until later.
 

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