Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[Grampy_Bone]

The Mauler is a mace/flail and an excellent primary weapon.

A Ninja or a Monk is just as effective with critical strikes but also have Stealth to make up for their poor armor, which the Samurai lacks. Samurai's only real advantage is being able to use higher damage swords, like Bloodlust (Berserk attacks!), Fang, or the Ivory blade.

In any case, trust me when I tell you you can go Str + Dex on your samurai and still get a shitzillion swings and critical strikes. No need to sacrifice damage for a crapshoot of instakills.

Bard is still a terrible choice for a meatshield. They're casters. Pretty much anything else would work better, besides the other casters. Even a ranger is better in melee and can wear more armor. When your bard plays songs and knocks themselves out from stamina loss, the enemies will pulverize them. Really bad choice for the front line, unless you don't use instruments, in which case a Bard is an utter waste.

 

[k0syak]

I'd say bard is the most early-mid-game oriented class, later on the gadgeteer and the casters get better.
The set of bard-only armor provides nice stat bonuses, combined with raising VIT first you get a pretty beefy character that can be thrown to the frontline w/o worrying too much about her going down.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

I think its pretty standart for bard to go fighter after he gets all needed song (or even 1st level fighter/ 2nd level bard/late game fighter).

 

[Ashery]

How quickly would Stealth rise in the absence of explicit grinding? Eg, how high would it likely be after the monastery? What level could I expect to be before it hits 80? 100?

 

[PrettyDeadman]

How quickly would Stealth rise in the absence of explicit grinding? Eg, how high would it likely be after the monastery? What level could I expect to be before it hits 80? 100?

Depends on how often character with stealth is attacked and how fast you gain xp. If you play solo I'd say you can expect 80-90 by level 7 or earlier.

The formula is:

combat time needed to raise stealth = combat time needed to raise stealth while grinding * % of attacks targetting character while in combat.

so, if you can raise your stealth to lvl 100 while grinding for ~2 hours real combat time, in a party of six, if are targeted 10% of the times, real combat time to raise stealthj to lvl 100 will be 20 hours.

what level you will be depends on how fast you gain xp per combat hour * combat hours.

 

[TigerKnee]

Samurai should go Str + Dex first.like just about every melee class.

I say it again but you don't need Speed above 55 for anyone other than your Protection Spell Buffers if you have access to a Haste Lvl 7 somewhere in your party. If you plan to cast Superman, going too high might actually be detrimental due to the overflow bug. SPD also does not affect Lightning Strike chance - the formula has been figured out already in the Steam guide.

Critical Strike is a whooping 1% per 10 points BEFORE enemy resistances, which will tank that down to something completely negligible. It's really not a strategy you build around - just a nice bonus that happens once in a blue moon.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I'd say bard is the most early-mid-game oriented class, later on the gadgeteer and the casters get better.
The set of bard-only armor provides nice stat bonuses, combined with raising VIT first you get a pretty beefy character that can be thrown to the frontline w/o worrying too much about her going down.

Disagree with Gadgeteer being better than Bard. Better instruments are available earlier (Dulcimer of Mending), most gadgets focus on damaging spells which aren't very good, Bards get the useful Poet's Lute, Rousing drums, Arresting Aria, Piercing Pipes, and Siren's Wail. Gadgeteers get the Earthquake one but only at the end of the game. No useful buffs or status effects either. The omnigun is also hugely overrated, a 1% chance to cause a random status effect? Useless. Better off giving a bard a bow or Doubleshot crossbow. Actually making double/tripleshot crossbows might be the only good reason to take a gadgeteer.

Bard is still dumb in the front line. No good armor, no stealth, knocking themselves out from stamina loss, no good weapons, no berserk, no backstab, no critical strike, etc. Sure you can multiclass them, but then they're still best off playing music. Putting them in the front line just takes up space. I did the faerie bard/ninja with Cane of Corpus, probably the best possible melee setup you could do with a bard, and it still wasn't worth it at all.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

The other issue is that due to the swarming behavior of enemies in Wizardry 8 and the low utility of close-range weapons, stacking your frontline with melee guys has diminishing returns. Realistically your frontliners won't be able to attack more than 2 or 3 targets per round at the very most. Things die quick, so all your extra attacks and swings are wasted. That's why in my current game I only put one person in the front and either flank and gave them all spears. No more dancing around in a circle to bring the front melee line to bear.

 

[k0syak]

Disagree with Gadgeteer being better than Bard. Better instruments are available earlier (Dulcimer of Mending), most gadgets focus on damaging spells which aren't very good, Bards get the useful Poet's Lute, Rousing drums, Arresting Aria, Piercing Pipes, and Siren's Wail. Gadgeteers get the Earthquake one but only at the end of the game. No useful buffs or status effects either. The omnigun is also hugely overrated, a 1% chance to cause a random status effect? Useless. Better off giving a bard a bow or Doubleshot crossbow. Actually making double/tripleshot crossbows might be the only good reason to take a gadgeteer.

What about armorplate, detect secrets, E4E, heal all, guardian angel, superman, xray? It's all about incorporating the bard/gadgeteer to fit into your party composition. And you are hating too much on the omnigun, 10% KO, 10% blind plus whatever your ammunition of choice gives.

Bard is still dumb in the front line. No good armor, no stealth, knocking themselves out from stamina loss, no good weapons, no berserk, no backstab, no critical strike, etc. Sure you can multiclass them, but then they're still best off playing music. Putting them in the front line just takes up space. I did the faerie bard/ninja with Cane of Corpus, probably the best possible melee setup you could do with a bard, and it still wasn't worth it at all.

Once again, it's all about the party composition IMHO. If you play with 2 melee, bard and 3 casters, she's going to be spamming songs from the front.

The other issue is that due to the swarming behavior of enemies in Wizardry 8 and the low utility of close-range weapons, stacking your frontline with melee guys has diminishing returns. Realistically your frontliners won't be able to attack more than 2 or 3 targets per round at the very most. Things die quick, so all your extra attacks and swings are wasted. That's why in my current game I only put one person in the front and either flank and gave them all spears. No more dancing around in a circle to bring the front melee line to bear.

Completely agree here, also not having to put points into dual-wield leads to faster skill growth.
Almost forgot - multiple Giant's Swords are the shit

 

[Grampy_Bone]

When you talk about random compositions you can find a place for any class, but I think the Bard is better overall not just because it has more useful spells but because it also works in a wider array of parties.

Gadgeteer buff list is still pretty lame. Detect secrets, eye for and eye, guardian angel, and superman are of low usefulness; x-ray and armorplate are handy but they're not going to win fights for you. Armorplate is found in the priest school which almost every party will have covered elsewhere. Compare that to the hugely useful Haste buff from the Psionic school which is otherwise not that useful, meaning people are unlikely to have dedicated Psionics. Plus the Dulcimer of mending is available waaaay earlier than the similar Gadgeteer item, your bard will have heal all often before your priest will.

Whenever I've played with gadgeteers I've found they spend most rounds plinking away with worthless Energy blast or wimpy omnigun shots, and I really feel the loss of a bard without easy haste spells, sleep, freeeze all, insanity, early heal all, etc.

 

[Ashery]

This game can be cruel.

Head up to the Upper Monastery and quickly spot a set of two rabid rats. Listed as level six while I only just got my first two level fives, but it looks easy enough. I decide to cheese things a bit and do a false move action to let the rats come to me and allow my high initiative Samurai get some hits in. But the Bard's first in the line up...

...And his lute backfires. The whole party is now asleep, with my Bard and Valk getting woken up on the next round and losing nearly half their life. Bard's song fails to go off again and the Valk misses her swing. At this point, both are hanging on by a thread and my Samurai took a heavy blow without waking up, so there's really no point in going further as it's already a guaranteed TPK.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Rat bastards

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

backfires

One of the worst enemies in Wiz8 : Yourself.

 

[Ashery]

Largely done with the Monastery save for one aspect: The key to the tomb (ie the locked door at the top of the rising platform that requires a circular key). I've double checked both zones, but despite discovering a few bits of important loot I had missed (Cape, chip) and looting the safe, I've yet to find the key. I've reread the tattered note multiple times, but it gives me no leads.

That said, I also want to avoid any outright walkthroughs, so I'll compromise with the most basic question possible:

Is the key to the tomb in one of the starting two zones (ie Lower/Upper Monastery)?

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

No.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Nope. You find it elsewhere.

 

[Ashery]

Thanks; that's a relief. I would've driven myself crazy if I kept looking for it, especially if I kept trying to eye minor details like the one involved with the safe.

Edit: Just remembered another question I had:

How does Snakespeed skill up via use? Since it improves initiative, I'd guess that because it gets used every round, it'd also has a chance for increasing every round. But at the same time, it feels like Snakespeed would level ridiculously fast if that's the case.

I'm asking because I'm beginning to wonder how to pump my Bishop's stats. I'm currently sitting on 82 Speed, 79 Int, and 55 Piety. If I continue to pump the first two, I'll be at 100 Sp, 97 Int at level 12. The problem, however, is that you can only increase an individual stat three points every level. Ie I'd need an additional 15 levels to max out Pie, and getting to level 27 isn't exactly realistic.

However, if I start pumping, say, Sp+Pie instead of Sp+Int, I'd be able to max out all three by level 21.

 

[TigerKnee]

What would you even do with that much Piety? Iron Will's pretty pointless when you have Magic/Soul Screen up and if you're having MP trouble, just drink a Pot or use a Mana Stone.

 

[Spiky]

Are there any good Wizardry 8 Mods that do graphics enhancements/fixes and add missing items (like Demon Doll) to the game? I would like to try out some finished mod with fixed bugs.

 

[Dungeon Lord]

Best Wizardry 8 mod is the Deathstalker's mod 3.0

My epic fail is playing Wizardry 6 as always:
Hooray! I am going to play Wiz6! I am going to have a Level200 party! They will be demigods!
And now my Level12 party is in the Temple of Ramm. Grinding their tooth somehow they will win the game! But at only Level12?

 

[Reapa]

Thanks; that's a relief. I would've driven myself crazy if I kept looking for it, especially if I kept trying to eye minor details like the one involved with the safe.

Edit: Just remembered another question I had:

How does Snakespeed skill up via use? Since it improves initiative, I'd guess that because it gets used every round, it'd also has a chance for increasing every round. But at the same time, it feels like Snakespeed would level ridiculously fast if that's the case.

I'm asking because I'm beginning to wonder how to pump my Bishop's stats. I'm currently sitting on 82 Speed, 79 Int, and 55 Piety. If I continue to pump the first two, I'll be at 100 Sp, 97 Int at level 12. The problem, however, is that you can only increase an individual stat three points every level. Ie I'd need an additional 15 levels to max out Pie, and getting to level 27 isn't exactly realistic.

However, if I start pumping, say, Sp+Pie instead of Sp+Int, I'd be able to max out all three by level 21.

don't forget the riddle in trynton which gives every char +5 int. i forgot and wasted a few points.

on another note, is this all there is to gadgeteer??? http://www.jeffludwig.com/wizardry8/gadgetlist.php
looks like the crappiest crap ever for a "crafter". i expected at least a bit of mindless resistance boni on armor when combined with random crap. this is just spells. when you think of all the random junk you have to carry around with you from the start of the game to some of the end game areas, there less than no incentive to do it. i'd rather have another valkyre and sell all that junk or drop it as soon as i find it.

 

[octavius]

My epic fail is playing Wizardry 6 as always:
Hooray! I am going to play Wiz6! I am going to have a Level200 party! They will be demigods!
And now my Level12 party is in the Temple of Ramm. Grinding their tooth somehow they will win the game! But at only Level12?

That's the downside to excessive class changing. Your guys may have mad skillz in Ninjutsus and Kirijutsu and , but at only lvl 12 they will be very vulnerable to enemy spells when facing Priests of Ramm and Sylphs.

 

[Reapa]

My epic fail is playing Wizardry 6 as always:
Hooray! I am going to play Wiz6! I am going to have a Level200 party! They will be demigods!
And now my Level12 party is in the Temple of Ramm. Grinding their tooth somehow they will win the game! But at only Level12?

That's the downside to excessive class changing. Your guys may have mad skillz in Ninjutsus and Kirijutsu and , but at only lvl 12 they will be very vulnerable to enemy spells when facing Priests of Ramm and Sylphs.

that's bullshit. some 5 min of grinding and you are at the same level you would have been if you didn't multi class. you're not playing the whole fucking game with every reset, you are grinding enemies that give you several levels worth of xp.

 

[Dungeon Lord]

I cannot invoke the Book of Poetry! It sould increase my intelligence! I am so dumb!

 

[Gnidrologist]

2) Bards are a terrible melee class. No heavy armor OR stealth? Forget it. Ideally a bard should be playing music every round. If you really want a frontline bard, consider multiclassing to Ninja or Rogue after you get 18 Bard levels (Max needed to play all instruments). Its not recommended though.

Dunno (if we talk about wiz8), by mid game my bard is usually second or third (if i have fighter and rogue) best melee attacker. A bit more vulnerable because of lower defenses, but dealing huge damage and being fast/agile too given that only basic stat for music you need to up is INT, which is usually at 100 by level 7 or smth, which means that you can start maxing STR/DEX/SPD asap. With ST it needs very little investment as two rings of traveler (or what were they called) bard gets instant whopping +40 ST. Bard's armor set although not best for juggernaut has very nice stat bonuses too. Give him Fang and he's maxed out on ST very early meaning that it's possible to max out DEX and SPD relatively early making him both strong as ox and fast/many attacks/initiative even earlier than fighter.

I don't bother with much VIT for any of my characters ever but lizard fighters or similar 100% tanks. Nor bards or gadgeteers gain much from maxing it. Instruments/gadgets still take away stamina ridiculously fast making them useless and vulnerable if only using instruments/gadgets so in long fights i only bother to use insanity/haste/healing type of spells here and there, while going melee/guns 2/3ds of rounds. Guzzling stamina potions every second turn is just meh. Also omnigun isn't shit at all. It's only shit in early game and it's main problem is humongous weight of shooting stones. It's damage/status effect output summed with the fact that it's ranged weapon and can deal with elusive targets without spending a round for moving cannot be understated.