The writing in this game is average

[Bleed the Man]

My original argument wasn't that they had to be very weak (although I would say so if Thaos was to perform a trick like the one at the sanitarium. There's a reason why the girl with an awakened soul don't get possesed, or the other patients that aren't in the cells), but to illustrate that those patients have weak souls and the game let you know this.

The original argument for why he doesn't possess you and other party members is that he can only possess weaklings. But the way it plays out is that he can possess just about anybody except characters with plot shield.

What? If he could posses almost anybody the game wouldn't make it perfectly clear that he can only overcome the will of weak souls. In the game, outside the animancer, he only possess patients from the sanitarium and a hollowborn girl, and it isn't really difficult to asume that Thaos is responsible for putting someone he can manipulate at the duc's hearing, as he has done in all his plans.

He could have done a lot of things to kill the duc and blame animancy, but he always would do that directly. It's pretty important for his plan that animancy gets blamed, and the assassination of the duc is key to this, and is part of Thaos character to do this stuff by himself to ensure it gets done.

The point is that it plays off like a badly written manga where the character avoids doing the obvious (or shits over internal consistency) for the sake of the plot (and in this case an unnecessary detail at that).

Shits over internal consistency? Avoids doing the obvious?

Explain to me what would be the obvious and what consistency problems creates, because I don't see them

 

[Mastermind]

What? If he could posses almost anybody the game wouldn't make it perfectly clear that he can only overcome the will of weak souls. In the game, outside the animancer, he only possess patients from the sanitarium and a hollowborn girl, and it isn't really difficult to asume that Thaos is responsible for putting someone he can manipulate at the duc's hearing, as he has done in all his plans.

This objection has already been answered.

Shits over internal consistency? Avoids doing the obvious

Explain to me what would be the obvious and what consistency problems creates, because I don't see them

Why even respond if you don't pay attention to the conversation?

 

[Rostere]

It's in the earliest dialogues with him. Around that point I just said fuck it and started over with an all adventurer party, they're stronger and don't say stupid shit. I wanna see Eder's backstory though since I'm still unclear on what exactly the deal with Eothas and St Waidewn was. That bit of the story is the only one I thought was genuinely good and a part of that is that they didn't spitball exposition on the subject beyond what everybody already knows (at least from what I've played).

Hehe, but that's really best explained by Durance and the main story...

Don't remember Durance saying names are useless for people like us, since he says a lot of names and is generally one of the best written characters in the game. I was simply amazed when I discovered him.

Actually he does say that. And he also states that he takes the name Durance from a clerical figure who may or may not simply be himself in the past.

 

[Irenaeus]

I don't remember. I'll see it in my next playthrough.

 

[Bleed the Man]

This objection has already been answered.

This is what you said:

"But he could do it with an influential animancer? There was already an in-setting alternative option (dominate the guy) too."

"The original argument was that they had to be very weak (IE: nutjobs, or soulless) for him to possess. And if he could manipulate who gets sent then he could have assured success by just sending a Leaden Key guy to perform the assassination instead and be sure it works. Instead we have the animancers sending what appears to be a weak faggot to argue for their existence."

"The original argument for why he doesn't possess you and other party members is that he can only possess weaklings. But the way it plays out is that he can possess just about anybody except characters with plot shield."

You base your entire argument in that Thaos can possess the animancer at the hearing, so he should be able to possess anybody he wishes, and he doesn't because plot armor, when in game he barely possess anybody that isn't very fucked up, or critical for his plans to succeed. I already told you why what you say isn't possible, but you just ignore it, you don't really answer or try to contradict what I'm saying.

Why even respond if you don't pay attention to the conversation?

You haven't explained why the things you mention (sending a leaden key assassin, dominate the guys) would make more sense or why this stuff break the setting consistency, you just said it does. I need to know why if I'm going to give you an answer to what you've been saying.

 

[Mastermind]

You base your entire argument in that Thaos can possess the animancer at the hearing, so he should be able to possess anybody he wishes, and he doesn't because plot armor, when in game he barely possess anybody that isn't very fucked up, or critical for his plans to succeed. I already told you why what you say isn't possible, but you just ignore it, you don't really answer or try to contradict what I'm saying.

I don't remember you explaining why sending a leaden key assassin or dominating the guy (especially when there are no hard counters ) is not possible. The former would certainly be preferable to barging into a room full of guards and a well armed party who knows who he is and what he can do then leave his body vulnerable to personally perform an assassination he doesn't really have to personally perform.

You haven't explained why the things you mention (sending a leaden key assassin, dominate the guys) would make more sense or why this stuff break the setting consistency, you just said it does.

No, I explained that there's no consistency in who he can possess except the claim that he can't possess people with weak souls, which seems to have zero actual effect on the game other than making everybody who's convenient to possess have a weak soul and making everyone who's not convenient to possess, like a party member, just so happen to have a strong soul. The setting is warped to fit the plot, rather than make the plot fit the setting (which would be easy to do, but Obshitian wanted their awesum cut scenes of the bad guy kicking the door open and slaughtering a motherfucker right in front of you while you jerk off from a balcony).

 

[Rostere]

Assassinating the duc by using a possessed animancer at a public trial for animancy is pretty much the perfect opportunity for Thaos, so the fact that he does this is not surprising at all.

If you want a lore reason why he could possess the animancer it's possible he's prepared that particular person to be possessed for days or weeks. If this was a top priority for the Leaden Key I'm sure they could slip him some drugs or something.

I don't find that part hard to explain by reasonable headcanon but you are of course completely right in the the PC should be able to inquire about this. It's always bad when odd things happen in a game and the PC is prevented from asking/talking to people about how it all makes sense.

 

[Mastermind]

Another issue with the claim that it was an agent would be that Thaos did this impulsively, since you fucked up his plot. After all the talks were already underway and there's no reason for him to wait unless he had a better plan (which he originally did, as without you things automatically go poorly for animancy). This makes more sense as his "plan" requires him to expose himself to being shot in the head mid-possession, so his stupidity can be partially explained by a mix of expediency and rage.

 

[Rostere]

Another issue with the claim that it was an agent would be that Thaos did this impulsively, since you fucked up his plot. After all the talks were already underway and there's no reason for him to wait unless he had a better plan (which he originally did, as without you things automatically go poorly for animancy). This makes more sense as his "plan" requires him to expose himself to being shot in the head mid-possession, so his stupidity can be partially explained by a mix of expediency and rage.

Is he barging in or is he sneakily walking in at the back of the public though? I don't remember the cutscene too vividly.

Also, only you as a Watcher can see all of the purple glaring soul stuff. So the other people in the audience won't all go "look at the man at the back, releasing his purple soul essence at the animancer"!

 

[Mastermind]

Is he barging in or is he sneakily walking in at the back of the public though? I don't remember the cutscene too vividly.

Also, only you as a Watcher can see all of the purple glaring soul stuff. So the other people in the audience won't all go "look at the man at the back, releasing his purple soul essence at the animancer"!

I remember him forcefully pushing the doors open but I'm not entirely sure if it's an actual memory. The main point though is that you're stuck in a cutscene instead of blowing his head off.

 

[Bleed the Man]

I don't remember you explaining why sending a leaden key assassin or dominating the guy (especially when there are no hard counters ) is not possible. The former would certainly be preferable to barging into a room full of guards and a well armed party who knows who he is and what he can do then leave his body vulnerable to personally perform an assassination he doesn't really have to personally perform.

I said that there are other ways for Thaos to achieve his means, I never claimed it was the only way, I'm just trying to say that it makes sense. Also, nobody but you know who Thaos is. You try to expose the leaden key's plans in that hearing, but nobody outside you and Lady Web knows who Thaos is and what he looks like (your companions haven't seen him, unlike your character)

No, I explained that there's no consistency in who he can possess except the claim that he can't possess people with weak souls, which seems to have zero actual effect on the game other than making everybody who's convenient to possess have a weak soul and making everyone who's not convenient to possess, like a party member, just so happen to have a strong soul. The setting is warped to fit the plot, rather than make the plot fit the setting (which would be easy to do, but Obshitian wanted their awesum cut scenes of the bad guy kicking the door open and slaughtering a motherfucker right in front of you while you jerk off from a balcony).

Sorry, I'm not really understanding your point here. Having a strong or weak soul can be argued to be plot convinient, but I don't really see how this really diminish the setting. And I already said Thaos barely posses anyone, and those who do, outside the animancer, are very special cases (one of them didn't have a soul, others were people with heavy mental illnesses that in this setting come from the souls, and souls of dead people put into constructs).

Another issue with the claim that it was an agent would be that Thaos did this impulsively, since you fucked up his plot. After all the talks were already underway and there's no reason for him to wait unless he had a better plan (which he originally did, as without you things automatically go poorly for animancy). This makes more sense as his "plan" requires him to expose himself to being shot in the head mid-possession, so his stupidity can be partially explained by a mix of expediency and rage.

Thaos would have gone to the hearing even if you didn't fucked up his plans. Those plans where to make people distrust animancy, and he already succed way before you get to solve those quests. The only thing that change is that you expose the leaden key as responsible for this events during the hearing (something he doesn't really care), but he planned to killed the duc and blame animancy for it even if you hadn't stopped him, because you really didn't (heritage hill was already lost when you intervine, and he had already fucked up the animancer with his attemt to cure a hollowborn)

 

[Irenaeus]

Btw, I just reached this part:

Spoiler

WTF this fucking cunt was working for the dark forces like it was nothing, then she gets bored and leave him like it's nothing again. What a bitch. Oh and by the way, Thaos is a kind of a retard for letting her leave and not kill her, just for her to spend the rest of her life plotting her revenge against. Fucking women >:-(

Gonna play the ending of Act 2 for the first time now (already know everything thanks to spoilers). Hold my hand, codex.

 

[Bleed the Man]

Gonna play the ending of Act 2 for the first time now (already know everything thanks to spoilers). Hold my hand, codex.

Dude, I appreciate the brofists, but if you haven't finished the game I would stay away from this kind of threads, it's a spoilers galore.

 

[Irenaeus]

Gonna play the ending of Act 2 for the first time now (already know everything thanks to spoilers). Hold my hand, codex.

Dude, I appreciate the brofists, but if you haven't finished the game I would stay away from this kind of threads, it's a spoilers galore.

No problem, I'm a big kid. But thanks for the warning anyway

 

[Mastermind]

I said that there are other ways for Thaos to achieve his means, I never claimed it was the only way, I'm just trying to say that it makes sense. Also, nobody but you know who Thaos is. You try to expose the leaden key's plans in that hearing, but nobody outside you and Lady Web knows who Thaos is and what he looks like (your companions haven't seen him, unlike your character)

"Look, there's Thanos!"

Now everybody knows, and even if they don't all trust you your party knows.

Sorry, I'm not really understanding your point here. Having a strong or weak soul can be argued to be plot convinient, but I don't really see how this really diminish the setting. And I already said Thaos barely posses anyone, and those who do, outside the animancer, are very special cases (one of them didn't have a soul, others were people with heavy mental illnesses that in this setting come from the souls, and souls of dead people put into constructs).

It doesn't necessarily diminish the setting, it can diminish the plot instead and neither option is good. Whether he doesn't possess a lot of people is not really material.

Thaos would have gone to the hearing even if you didn't fucked up his plans. Those plans where to make people distrust animancy, and he already succed way before you get to solve those quests. The only thing that change is that you expose the leaden key as responsible for this events during the hearing (something he doesn't really care), but he planned to killed the duc and blame animancy for it even if you hadn't stopped him, because you really didn't (heritage hill was already lost when you intervine, and he had already fucked up the animancer with his attemt to cure a hollowborn)

I do not believe Thanos was planning to kill the Duc until you interfered with the hearing. However, as I said, if it was pre-meditated it makes him look like an even bigger retard so if you wanna go this route...

 

[Bleed the Man]

"Look, there's Thanos!"

Now everybody knows, and even if they don't all trust you your party knows.

I'll give you the point here. Thaos makes himself visible in the room for purely "cinematic" reasons.

It doesn't necessarily diminish the setting, it can diminish the plot instead and neither option is good. Whether he doesn't possess a lot of people is not really material.

Sorry, I didn't really understand what you were trying to say (and only responded to a few separated claims), why you think diminishes the plot?

I do not believe Thanos was planning to kill the Duc until you interfered with the hearing. However, as I said, if it was pre-meditated it makes him look like an even bigger retard so if you wanna go this route...

It's pretty obvious in my book that it was his plan all along. As I said, you really didn't do anything that affected his plans, you just were made aware of them. Don't know why it would make him a bigger retard though

 

[Irenaeus]

Ok, just made it through the end of Act 2. Nothing wrong with it, in direct opposition with was has been said in this very thread.

Thaos wanted to discredit Animancy and he did it. Moving on.

 

[Mastermind]

Sorry, I didn't really understand what you were trying to say (and only responded to a few separated claims), why you think diminishes the plot?

Too many coincidences of convenience, weak soul + politically influential individual.

It's pretty obvious in my book that it was his plan all along. As I said, you really didn't do anything that affected his plans, you just were made aware of them. Don't know why it would make him a bigger retard though

You know his plans then go to the Duc, possibly (can't remember if you have the choice not to) exposing his existence and plans to the public. How does that NOT affect his plan? It's a huge interference. And it would make him a bigger retard because he'd needlessly expose himself. If you force his hand so he has no time to think and loses his cool his reckless exposure becomes more understandable.

 

[Mastermind]

Ok, just made it through the end of Act 2. Nothing wrong with it, in direct opposition with was has been said in this very thread.

Thaos wanted to discredit Animancy and he did it. Moving on.

You see nothing wrong with your character being stuck in a cutscene instead of being allowed to gun the fucker down?

 

[Irenaeus]

You are simply wrong, Mastermind. I just played this part five minutes ago. Nothing implies your character saw Thaos.

 

[Mastermind]

You are simply wrong, Mastermind. I just played this part five minutes ago. Nothing implies your character saw Thaos.

That should have been a perception check, not decided by plot. At best (how do you not notice a guy walking into the room)?

 

[Ninjerk]

Ok, just made it through the end of Act 2. Nothing wrong with it, in direct opposition with was has been said in this very thread.

Thaos wanted to discredit Animancy and he did it. Moving on.

You see nothing wrong with your character being stuck in a cutscene instead of being allowed to gun the fucker down?

How do you guys not see such simple trolling? He's doing this in every thread about PoE.

 

[Mastermind]

Ok, just made it through the end of Act 2. Nothing wrong with it, in direct opposition with was has been said in this very thread.

Thaos wanted to discredit Animancy and he did it. Moving on.

You see nothing wrong with your character being stuck in a cutscene instead of being allowed to gun the fucker down?

How do you guys not see such simple trolling? He's doing this in every thread about PoE.

I give the benefit of the doubt since he's a bro.

 

[Irenaeus]

You are simply wrong, Mastermind. I just played this part five minutes ago. Nothing implies your character saw Thaos.

That should have been a perception check, not decided by plot. At best

Are you Sawyer to decide when to have a perception check? Not everything that happens around you requires/allows perception tests. Are you going to ask for perception/resolve checks in the prologue to interrupt the ritual Thaos is conducting too?

how do you not notice a guy walking into the room?

The PC (a wild orlan ranger called Inissan in my case) was too absorbed hearing the Duc's pronunciation of his decision on the matters of Animancy to notice some guy in crowd.

How do you guys not see such simple trolling? He's doing this in every thread about PoE.

When you disagree, say the other guy is a troll. Nice tactics.

 

[Mastermind]

You are simply wrong, Mastermind. I just played this part five minutes ago. Nothing implies your character saw Thaos.

That should have been a perception check, not decided by plot. At best

Are you Sawyer to decide when to have a perception check? Not everything that happens around you requires/allows perception tests. Are you going to ask for perception/resolve checks in the prologue to interrupt the ritual Thaos is conducting too?

Sure. Being able to interrupt the ritual and get killed would be cool. In this case it's a crucial moment in the game though, if there was one moment the game genuinely needed a perception check, it was that one.

The PC (a wild orlan ranger called Inissan in my case) was too absorbed hearing the Duc's pronunciation of his decision on the matters of Animancy to notice some guy in crowd.

What crowd?