The writing

[black francis]

Hi

First, i'd like to say that it's very nice seeing a project like this is in the works. It's gonna be an indie-hit, i'm sure!

I am a bit curious about the quality of writing though. I realize that your forum posts isn't a very valid way of judging the writing in-game, but i'm somewhat concerned anyway. By the way i'm not saying you write badly, just that it's very straight forward and to the point (wich is good, in a forum) And I just hope that it's a bit more descriptive and "creative", and less dry, if you know what i mean.

Also, i find it cool that your main inspiration for the combat is samurai movies. I take it there will be lots of nifty moves to chose from, am I right? Are there gonna be some sort of stances?

Anyway, it's a very promising game and i'm looking forward to it, more than any other game currently in development in fact. So keep up the good work!

 

[Vault Dweller]

First, i'd like to say that it's very nice seeing a project like this is in the works. It's gonna be an indie-hit, i'm sure!

Well, thanks. Always nice to hear something positive.

I am a bit curious about the quality of writing though.

Hmm, not sure what to tell you, as my opinion would be irrelevant here. Have you seen the dialogue screens (there was a number of them)? What's your opinion? Now is my turn to be curious.

Other than that, I'd like to ask asll those who've seen the dialogue files to comment on them in a blunt manner. Spare no feelings

Also, i find it cool that your main inspiration for the combat is samurai movies. I take it there will be lots of nifty moves to chose from, am I right?

Fast, Regular, Power attacks; Aimed Attack: Eyes, Head, Torso, Arms, Legs; Special Attacks like Whirlwind, Interrupt, Disarm, etc.

Are there gonna be some sort of stances?

Yes. Vs specific weapons, vs multiple opponents, etc. You'd gain bonuses and penalties from each stance.

Anyway, it's a very promising game and i'm looking forward to it, more than any other game currently in development in fact. So keep up the good work!

Thanks. I will post a town model today, so stick around.

 

[black francis]

Yeah I've seen the screenshots. The options and skill-dependant lines are very nice. But what I have trouble seeing is if the different characters have varied personalities. As in different ways of speaking, what words they use and so on. Bloodlines is a wonderful example to use here, I think. The characters feels alive, and not just like gameplay-mechanics. I think it's an important aspect to get right. It's immersive. :wink:

The stances and different attacks sounds great. I just love that kind of stuff.

 

[Spazmo]

Well, in the handful of dialogs I saw, I mainly focused on the crunch, by which I mean how much the dialog reacts to stats, stuff you've done and so on. The fluff--the actual quality of the writing--I didn't pay that much attention to. But still, mostly it just needs a thorough spellcheck (which I imagine it's gotten since) and it'll be tee-riffic dialog, because like I say, it's got bags of crunch.

 

[black francis]

Maybe I'm too sensitive about things like that, but I just think it's important for the writing to "bring me in". Otherwise it just feels kind of empty, no matter how much crunch there is. Kinda like morrowind. (though there's not much crunch there to begin with.)

When I play an RPG I expect to meet characters that I dig or don't care much for, all with different agendas and personality traits reflected in their dialouge. What I don't care for is when everyone's the same, but with different things to say.

I don't know how much work you've put into making the npc's individuals though. Do you have any descriptions of them, or are they just there to give the player options?
Care to give a little info on some important npc?

 

[Jason]

The main NPC is Carol.
She's into Japanese fastfood.

 

[Vault Dweller]

But what I have trouble seeing is if the different characters have varied personalities. As in different ways of speaking, what words they use and so on.

I do believe that NPCs have different personalities, but like I said, my opinion is irrelevant here. I've been working on the game for so long, it's very hard for me to stay objective. Some people have mentioned that personalities are well defined, but you'd have to ask them or wait until the game is released.

I don't know how much work you've put into making the npc's individuals though.

A lot. Whether or not I succeeded remains to be seen though. Anyway, I defined personalities and interest in the PC first, and worked (wrote dialogues) from that.

Care to give a little info on some important npc?

They are alll important (everyone with a name, I mean). As for the info, if you are taking about personalities, I don't think they could be described in a few words. I'll post a few more dialogue shots when I have time. If you meant something else, please specify.

 

[black francis]

It all sounds fine. As long as your putting effort in defining different npc, I'm a happy man.

As for the info, if you are taking about personalities, I don't think they could be described in a few words. I'll post a few more dialogue shots when I have time. If you meant something else, please specify.

Dialouge shots is where its at.

By the way, what's the status on the website?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Somewhere in the works. In other words, the web girl is trying to come up with something I actually like. Everything else is ready ( domain, text, screens, art, etc ). She had a very nice idea (rough mock-up), which is why I gave her a shot, but then she took it into a very wrong direction.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

...but then she took it into a very wrong direction.

She wouldn't sleep with you?

 

[fraunclein]

Good questions, actually.

Even though I'm not the best person to evaluate someones English (because it's far from being my first language), I've also given some doubt to VD's ability to write "colourful" dialogue. Your writing style seems to be very trenchant and straight-to-the-point, but not very "lively" (hell, how very vague, but i couldnt figure out better adjectives).

Even though the dialogue screens so far have been fine enough (Feng & the chums at the tavern - is there more?), I've personally gotten the impression that these guys could as well have been a same person talking - the Vault Dweller in a leather jacket.

I know, pretty shallow criticism based on a small amount of material and not entirely relevant on how good the game itself actually is.

As for a curious question: Have you done much/any descriptive text in conjuction with the NPC interaction? (e.g "You see the loremaster. Even though his graying beard and swollen shoulders speak of old age, the way he vigilantly follows your every motion tells of blahblah.")

 

[Vault Dweller]

...but then she took it into a very wrong direction.

She wouldn't sleep with you?

 

[Vault Dweller]

... I've also given some doubt to VD's ability to write "colourful" dialogue.

I think I'm ok with dialogues and presenting different personalities in conversations. That's colorful enough for me. To be honest, I don't think you should expect anything more.

Even though the dialogue screens so far have been fine enough (Feng & the chums at the tavern - is there more?)

Yes, there are more. I'll post all the links in this thread shortly.

As for a curious question: Have you done much/any descriptive text in conjuction with the NPC interaction?

No. That is not my strongest area, and I'm aware of my limitations. English is my third language, unfortunately.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Links:

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6763
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7403
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9616
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9793

 

[Drain]

They are alll important (everyone with a name, I mean).

Does this mean that there are a lot of nameless generic NPCs along with named(important) ones? Sorry, if this question have already been asked.

 

[Section8]

From ym limited sampling, I thought the personalities came across pretty well. The conversations seemed fairly natural*, which I think is pretty important when it comes to characterisation.

Oh, and Black Francis, welcome. Top choice of name.

* (as opposed to the very forced nature of personalities in game like NWN - "Oh noes, i r a paladan nd i dout mysef, hope i dont' fall lolz >.<")

 

[Vault Dweller]

@ Drain:

Yes, at this point there are generic nameless NPCs, i.e. a commoner, a merchant, a guard, a noble, a tavern patron, etc. While there are many "named" NPCs, a town would feel empty without more people.

 

[Vault Dweller]

From ym limited sampling, I thought the personalities came across pretty well. The conversations seemed fairly natural*, which I think is pretty important when it comes to characterisation.

Much obliged.

 

[fraunclein]

Thanks, apparently there was a couple I had missed.

I think I'm ok with dialogues and presenting different personalities in conversations. That's colorful enough for me. To be honest, I don't think you should expect anything more.

As it should be.
I guess I'll take back my earlier statement. The conversations seem natural enough - especially the PC's lines. Afterall, it's quite pointless from me to try to "imagine how the NPC's should sound" just according to a few lines.
I must admit that I've very little experience on RPG's with well written dialogue anyway. Just recently discovered Planescape : Torment - which I'm currently enjoying (thanks to the codex), so that might have given quite a shake to my standards. Yet to play the Fallouts & Troika games.

From one of the earlier threads:

That's in the journal. Each NPC has a page or two, where the description, your impressions of him/her, your dealings, etc is recorded. The info is based on your choices, obviously, and your stats. If you are smart enough to figure out that an NPC is full of shit that would be recorded; if your Per is high enough to notice something about his manner, that would be recorded. Etc.

This sounds really sweet, mind posting some screens?

 

[FrancoTAU]

No. That is not my strongest area, and I'm aware of my limitations. English is my third language, unfortunately.

English is your third language? Jesus, i feel like a dummy as your English is as good as mine and English is my only language I just kind of assumed you were a fellow typical American. Where are you from?

Anywho, the dialogue screens i've seen look good. My only reservation is that someone without a writing backround might have trouble pulling off a good plot. Than again, someone like Jeff Vogel has had some really cool plots with rather mediocre dialogue.

 

[Atrokkus]

Where are you from?

He lives in Canada, but only gods know his dark origin...

Anyways, I think that descriptive sentences in dialogs would have been a great addition to the direct speech. Mimic, gestures, and other subtle movements/appearances should be accounted for. Journal can compensate for the lack of it, but only partially. See, mimics and gestures is not something constant, it's only relevant at the given moment.
But, I guess, that's not a major gripe, especially if the character's speech will turn out as well-written as we predict.

 

[Vault Dweller]

This sounds really sweet, mind posting some screens?

Eventually. I'll post several different journal screens when I have time to pay attention to comments and tweak the journal system. Right now I'm still busy tweaking the AP system.

Where are you from?

Europe. I used to be a seaman, sailed around the world for a few years. That's where I picked languages. I'm fluent in 4.

My only reservation is that someone without a writing backround might have trouble pulling off a good plot.

Disagree. Plot falls under the domain of imagination. Writing is what brings it to life. I doubt I would be able to write a good book, but if you are ok with my dialogues, you'd be ok with the plot. Anyway, the plot is bitching, even if I do say so myself.

 

[black francis]

Oh, and Black Francis, welcome. Top choice of name.

Why, thank you very much. Somebody's gotta pick the fatso.

Anyway, the plot is bitching, even if I do say so myself.

That's nice to hear. Coming from a jaded gamer like you, I hereby expect Alot.

 

[Atrokkus]

Europe. I used to be a seaman, sailed around the world for a few years. That's where I picked languages. I'm fluent in 4.

OMFG, VD. You never cease to amaze me.

 

[black francis]

The main NPC is Carol.
She's into Japanese fastfood.