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Editorial TheForce.Net analyzes KOTOR 2 incomplete state

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,023
Tags: Obsidian Entertainment; Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords

<a href=http://www.theforce.net>The Force.Net</a> has posted an <a href=http://www.theforce.net/jedicouncil/editorials/030405.asp>editorial</a> dedicated to pointing out all the missing elements in <a href=http://www.kotor2.com>KOTOR 2: The Unfinished Business</a> and blaming the evil publisher for these crimes against humanity.
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<blockquote>Upon reaching the later events of KOTOR2, it becomes clearly evident that the game has suffered greatly from its short time in development. It's been uttered on forums around the internet but no major site has been willing to admit it or say it...LucasArts rushed this game onto shelves for holiday sales before it was ready to be released. The latter part of the game is clearly missing cut scenes, certain subplots and many elements of the main plot are left unresolved, gaping plot holes emerge that are never explained, supporting characters of the player character's party completely disappear from the game, never to appear again, with NO explanation as to where they are (evidence of these issues can be found by clicking on the hyperlinks that are provided at the bottom of the page). Bugs have ruined entire files, many gamers have reported constant crashes, having to restart the game entirely, quests that cannot be completed due to bugs, and a generally poor frame rate. The final cut scene, what some people have called a "cliff hanger" is lacking in even the slightest bit of resolve to be considered a cliff hanger.
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One of the strongest pieces of evidence to support the accusations of the game's incompletion is a sub-plot involving G0T0 and Bao-Dur's remote droid. A conflict arises between the two in a video sequence that was left in game and yet a resolution is never shown on-screen.</blockquote>
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The G0T0 vs the Remote cutscene and the "Black Hawk Down" followed by "The Hawk is happily flying away" cutscenes clearly show the confused state of mind of the developers by the forced end of the project.
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.bluesnews.com/">Blue's News</A>
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Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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Messages
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Once more with feeling:

Everything good about KOTOR is the developer's doing; but all the bad is the publisher's.

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!
 

Sol Invictus

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The developers certainly didn't force KOTOR2 out the door, Volourn. But it's their fault they didn't complete it in time! It's LucasArts for not giving them enough time. It's their fault for not asking for more time. It's LucasArts for not anticipating their requirement. It's their fault for anticipating LucasArts to be more generous. It's...

r00fles!
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
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"The developers certainly didn't force KOTOR2 out the door, Volourn. But it's their fault they didn't complete it in time! It's LucasArts for not giving them enough time. It's their fault for not asking for more time. It's LucasArts for not anticipating their requirement. It's their fault for anticipating LucasArts to be more generous. It's..."

*yawn* Stop being a fanboy.

When Obsidian first signed on with LA to make KOTOR2; the game was secheudled to be released in NOVEMBER. It eventually got released in December and February respectively. Obsidian had an engine already amde for them. That saves a bundle of time already. Even some of the story elements were pre handled to them. Not to mention the art, and the like. Let's not forget the rules as well. They have just over a year. If they hadn't overstretched themsleves; they would ahve plenty of time to make a solid game with a lot less problems then the current version of KOTOR2.


But, hey, blame everything bad on LA. It's easier when there is a bIg Bad Devil Red Herring to accuse of screwing the Poor, Little Innocent Developer.


R00fles!
 

dagamer667

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
104
Depending on the code, it always takes time for a team to get up to speed on a licensed engine. Something that the Duke Nukem Forever developers are still trying to do for the umpteenth time.

God forbid, Obsidian would try to make the sequel just as great as the original. A game like KOTOR 2 doesn't even need to depend on holiday sales. They could've released it in mid-January and still sold a ton. If LA wants deadlines adherence above all else, they should contract Jarhead Games for KOTOR III. Then we'll get a game with only two controls: Move Forward and Swing Lightsaber. Buy hey, it'll be out by Christmas and won't have any plot holes (or any plot for that matter).
 

littleboy

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Calgery, Canada
they had also stated earler in one of the early interveiws with Obsidian that they had started the design thinking that kotor was a much smaller game than it was and that when they got the opertunity to play it they had to add a bunch more content. by witch time they would have already singed the contract (with the 12 month stipulation), is it their fault for trying to do too much with too little, yup. But how mad would we be if it took 15hrs to do absolutely everying in the game. Is it Lucas's fault for being moneygrubbing fucktards without any idea how to keep a franchise alive? YUP.(see the two most recent movies for further example).
 

deus

Liturgist
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Messages
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Despite all the bitching about KotOR II's ending, I think its ending is better than the original's. In KotOR, I finally get to the Star Forge and fight Malak. I don't know about the Darkside ending, but the Lightside ending was pathetic. The Star Forge is destroyed and then everyone gets medals. Yay! it might as well have cut to the credits after Malak's death. Even with all the holes and unfinished scenes, in KotOR II I at least got find out what happened to my party members and each planet. It just feels worse because of everything that was cut out.
 

Otaku_Hanzo

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The state of insanity.
Well, I wouldn't worry about it. Vol's just being the stirrer of the pot as usual.

Obsidian did a decent enough job in the time they had, but they just bit off a bit more than they could handle. That's usually the way it is for a first game and something I'm not going to hold over their heads.

Lucasarts, however, has repeatedly fucked over their products lately by not really caring about quality and only caring about sales. "It's an SW product. The name alone will ensure massive sales. Who cares if it's buggy as fuck?" :roll:

I just hope that the idiot responsible for the recent streak of bad marketing decisions is one of the people who lost their job in the recent LA employee turnaround.

In the end, it's both of their faults, as Exit pointed out. But it's mostly LA's. Like it or not, Vol. :D
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
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A. Not all SW games sell.

B. I never said KOTOR2 sucked.. I actually like it ALMOST as much as KOTOR1. I mean were talking about a few percentage points here. LOL

C. I never said LA wasn't afualt. But, so was Obsdiain. Just as much.

As long as people are willing to give ALL the credit for the good stuff to Obsidian and ALL the blame to LA for the bad stuff; I'm gonna point out the retardedness of it.
 

Shagnak

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Volourn said:
C. I never said LA wasn't afualt. But, so was Obsdiain. Just as much.

But isn't that what Exitium was saying here (i.e. attributing blame both ways)? :
The developers certainly didn't force KOTOR2 out the door, Volourn. But it's their fault they didn't complete it in time! It's LucasArts for not giving them enough time. It's their fault for not asking for more time. It's LucasArts for not anticipating their requirement. It's their fault for anticipating LucasArts to be more generous. It's...

So why did you disagree with him?
Or are you illiterate?
Or does someone need to tweak your auto-response codebase? :wink:
 

DemonKing

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Messages
5,889
deus said:
I don't know about the Darkside ending, but the Lightside ending was pathetic. The Star Forge is destroyed and then everyone gets medals. Yay!

Well...that was basically the ending to the original film, so you can't complain it's not in keeping with the films.

It's quite clear that KOTOR2 was always meant to be a rush job to capitilise on the first game - same engine, reused levels from the first game to save on design time ala IWD2 (Dantooine and Korriban), buggy as hell mini-games (I don't bother pod racing at all - it's that bad) and overall it just seems to be missing that final splash of polish that marked the first game...but then again the original was in development for years and I seem to remember that BIO got at least one substantial extension.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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"Ummm... someone needs to work the bugs out in the bot."

LOL Apparantly, I do. :lol:
 

Saint_Proverbius

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Behind you.
deus said:
Despite all the bitching about KotOR II's ending, I think its ending is better than the original's. In KotOR, I finally get to the Star Forge and fight Malak. I don't know about the Darkside ending, but the Lightside ending was pathetic. The Star Forge is destroyed and then everyone gets medals. Yay! it might as well have cut to the credits after Malak's death. Even with all the holes and unfinished scenes, in KotOR II I at least got find out what happened to my party members and each planet. It just feels worse because of everything that was cut out.

The Star Forge was just a dumb idea all around if you ask me. It's a big factory powered by a sun that spits out whole fleets of ships and armies of droids. It's basically a trivial concept, a factory, blown to overly outrageous importance and scope. Oh, and it's evil. Great.

At least the story of KotOR2 was less hokey.
 

AlanC9

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
505
Are we certain the endings were cut for time? I've got a sneaking suspicion that LA cut them for content. Anyone see any dev posts on the subject?
 

deus

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 28, 2004
Messages
143
Considering they cut out the HK-50 factory planet due to time, it seems reasonable. I could understand the Atton torture sequence being cut or modified, but cutting out an additional scene with Kreia and a scene with Visas and/or Handmaiden leans more toward time contraints.
 

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