1eyedking Top 10 things that RPGs don't do anymore

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

Games that chew you out for being a wuss like Gothic.

I loved in Gothic how if you were a little bitch or tried to be a tough guy when you weren't certain NPCs would beat you up and steal your money, but not kill you. Nowadays it feels like you lose any fight it's a game over and you have to reload and go "well I guess I'll just do that one later", but in Gothic instead you'd get pissed off at the bully who stole your lewt and when you came back to fight him after you got stronger you'd get your money back and steal his, making you the new camp bully.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Games that chew you out for being a wuss like Gothic.

I loved in Gothic how if you were a little bitch or tried to be a tough guy when you weren't certain NPCs would beat you up and steal your money, but not kill you. Nowadays it feels like you lose any fight it's a game over and you have to reload and go "well I guess I'll just do that one later", but in Gothic instead you'd get pissed off at the bully who stole your lewt and when you came back to fight him after you got stronger you'd get your money back and steal his, making you the new camp bully.

Kingdom Come does this (for unarmed fights) - not sure if it's just not the first quest or also later in the game, though.

 

[Filthy Sauce]

Don't know if its already been mentioned, but NO FUCKING 30 min TUTORIALS. Remember back in the day when a game was about about discovering stuff yourself.. Or taking the manual to the shitter and camping out there until you legs turn blue from cut off circulation.

There where no scripted tutorials, newbie dungeons, or 'free' items or levels. You just built your character(s) and went out into the open world (or a non gimped dungeon) to only get killed because you suck.

Arena
Daggerfall
Morrowind
Darklands
Wizardry
Might and Magic
Goldbox games
Gothic

Are examples. Bonus points if the game suggests you are fucked. ( your on your own now. Goodby asshole). Even though I don't really care for the game, MM6 has my favorite start up of all RPGs.

 

[Murk]

Taking the manual to the shitter is honestly one of my most missed things, especially in the bad old days of installing from a fucking DVD that took forever anyway.

Pop it in, set it to install, go take a relaxing sit* with the manual and start brainstorming a build

*this is codex, so more like relaxing squat

 

[Wayward Son]

Taking the manual to the shitter is honestly one of my most missed things, especially in the bad old days of installing from a fucking DVD that took forever anyway.

Pop it in, set it to install, go take a relaxing sit* with the manual and start brainstorming a build

*this is codex, so more like relaxing squat

Even some console games had this. I still remember (not an RPG, but hey) falling asleep reading the Jak and Daxter manual. Another memorable case of that for me was on PC, but still not an RPG, Civ IV.
More recently (for me anyway) was Arena. I took the digital manual off of my Anthology disc while my copy from Bethesda.net downloaded and installed.

 

[:Flash:]

Tell, don't show. I like it when the old games have a narrator that tells you what happens, how the atmosphere is, describe NPC behaviour, etc. In new games this is all replaced by graphics and animations, but its not the same.

New gameplay elements in late game / endgame. New games introduce all gameplay elements in the first few hours, and then repeat them over and over again. There used to be games that would introduce new gameplay elements shortly before the end, where few players would ever see them, e.g. Disciples of Steel tacks on a strategy game that lets you command armies.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Logistics, where the players need to manage resources and face additional constraints

• Food
• Water
• Sleep
• Stamina/fatigue
• Encumbrance, with reduced movement at higher weights
  
• Inventory space (as opposed to weight)
• Lighting with dark dungeons
  
• Day/night cycle with realistic darkness
• Need rest to regain health/spells
• Finite amount of consumable items
  
• Limitations on being able to save the game

These aren't quite entirely absent from recent RPGs, but they've been largely pushed aside in favor of making games about managing individual encounters with enemies.

 

[Crispy]

Or taking the manual to the shitter and camping out there until you legs turn blue from cut off circulation.

Ah, memories...

 

[pippin]

Need rest to regain health/spells

It's too similar to savescumming, imo. I get it that you might prefer that to autoregeneration, but I'd go for something more detailed. Abilities/24h would be a nice start. It would also be cool to add more esoteric stuff like situations or abilities tied to the lunar calendar, like the doors in Ultima.

 

[mondblut]

Finishing a game in as little game time as possible is good role playing

Which of the local larpers has bitten you, bro?

 

[octavius]

Finishing a game in as little game time as possible is good role playing

Which of the local larpers has bitten you, bro?

Someone not infected with the OCD virus.

 

[pippin]

I challenge you to finish Morrowind playing it as it was intended, without xploits or anything, but most importantly, without running and bonnyhopping to inflate acrobatics and athletics.

 

[octavius]

I challenge you to finish Morrowind playing it as it was intended, without xploits or anything, but most importantly, without running and bonnyhopping to inflate acrobatics and athletics.

Tsk, tsk! You think I haven't?
Actually I thought I played as intended on my first playthrough, but was rather disgusted to learn that I'd become an invincible demigod at lvl 20 mainly from running, and fighting off cliff racers. So my second character I had to seriously nerf to avoid leveling too quickly.

 

[Wayward Son]

Limitations on being able to save the game

Or games like Wizardry(I-V) that save constantly, so that you can't just reload because your uber tank samurai spell slinger got a surprise crit up the ass from a floor three monster. And if you rage-quit because you lost a party member and it saves your party when in town, you were in for a rude awakening when you next booted the game. (I know I was)

 

[agris]

I challenge you to finish Morrowind playing it as it was intended, without xploits or anything, but most importantly, without running and bonnyhopping to inflate acrobatics and athletics.

to be fair, dagoth ur was really easy.

 

[laclongquan]

Startopia style

The tutorials are spanned across several missions and you might want to replay that just to play it.

I challenge you to finish Morrowind playing it as it was intended, without xploits or anything, but most importantly, without running and bonnyhopping to inflate acrobatics and athletics.

to be fair, dagoth ur was really easy.

I dont know, description of imbueing wands and potion making is like an open-leg invitation to come in and take it. It's not something new.

 

[marcuz]

One thing I miss the most though is the ability to excite imagination in the player, and therefore to care for - mostly - the story but also the main and eventual side characters.
Whether it's because of too much detail provided (too much lore or narrative that overcome the sense of the story the player perceives, constraining characterisation), or visual style that's either bland or generic.

Gold box series of games, for instance, was the opposite of that to me, bringing me to care about those small bunches of pixels that represented the characters, and their adventures, in a way that the contemporary followers of the genre really cannot, despite the cumbersome interface and gameplay.

 

[Grumpy Grognard]

* Morality systems with narrative complexity and mechanical depth
* Magic systems that aren't just cyphers for Button Awesome (spell ingrediens, remembering the words for spells)
* Gameplay using astronomy/ day night cycles, mapping with coordinates and quest lore (digging for powerful magic reagents at a certain spot at night when the moons are in a certain phase)
* Deriving gameplay depth & immersion from a system of NPCs with motivations, schedules, activities etc to immerse you in the wo
* Exploration using your brain, in-game items (latitude, longitude)
* Ship travel with ocean depth and wind direction playing a big part
* Being able to circle the globe on an open world map
* Extensive expositionary narrative on a discovery basis (items in the world, books, journals, paintings, etc - that are actually interesting, so skyrim can fuck off)
* Throwing dirty diapers at dragons to trigger them to flee

basically the ultima series pre-EA

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

It's too similar to savescumming, imo. I get it that you might prefer that to autoregeneration, but I'd go for something more detailed. Abilities/24h would be a nice start. It would also be cool to add more esoteric stuff like situations or abilities tied to the lunar calendar, like the doors in Ultima.

It's not similar to save-scumming if there are limitations on resting, such as being able to rest only at certain spots in a dungeon or not being able to rest at all while in a dungeon. Even the chance of encountering random monsters while resting, as in Pool of Radiance or Daggerfall, is something of a limitation.

Or games like Wizardry(I-V) that save constantly, so that you can't just reload because your uber tank samurai spell slinger got a surprise crit up the ass from a floor three monster. And if you rage-quit because you lost a party member and it saves your party when in town, you were in for a rude awakening when you next booted the game. (I know I was)

Right, one way to limit the ability to save the game is to constantly auto-save over a single save file, which is a method still present in a few recent games such as the Souls series and Dragon's Dogma (though the latter also has a separate "checkpoint save").


Another thing that I miss, which has been already mentioned in a few previous posts, is the presence of cool travel options that make sense in the game world. Faery Tale Adventure had a raft, giant turtle, teleportation between circles of stone pillars using consumable magic items, and a giant swan that flew; the Ultima games had ships, magical gates, magic carpets, balloons (without getting into the SF aspects of the first two installments); Morrowind had silt striders, boats, mages guild transporters, and a propylon index quest that enabled teleporters in the ancient Dunmer strongholds.

 

[Rhuantavan]

I'm taking this thread's ideas and putting them on my TO-DO list for my game. Thanks!

 

[laclongquan]

A basic counter for such a saving method like that is alt tab out and copy the save to another location. Nowaday we have save manager mods on nexus if you just state the need.

 

[SirSingAlot]

extensive character creation and development.
i loved rerolling my squad in Wiz7 for hours and pondering about changing professions. also liked raising skills at level up in the old Realms of Arkania (first two).

i also miss some randomness in encounters and items. yes, it made you grind a bit, but at times you had to do it for exp anyways, might as well add some spice to it and reward those that enjoy hunting for smtg special.

and independent NPC squads roaming the world like in Wiz7

 

[resilient sphere]

It's been a while since I've found a really good shop in a modern RPG - they're always too straight to the point with their stock, just potions and class kit stuff and random eq you'd never consider buying. I miss seeing overlapping gear (old D&D games), region-specific miscellania (Morrowind), marginal adventuring gear which might save your life in very specific situations (Arkania, Captive), etc, etc... the typical shop in Xulima or Dragon Age has not been established to make money from anyone but the main character, and that's a shame!

on the subject of trade I loved Ultima Underworld's barter system where you could enact a small trade with just about any friendly NPC, just swap item for item without worrying about coinage if you preferred - that game was too easy for the system to be necessary but the idea is due a come-back in a new game.

 

[felipepepe]

Fallout's shops were really great in that regard... not only they felt "real", but there was always something to aim for... "I want that pistol, that armour, that eletronic lockpick, etc..."

It's a very JRPG-ish kind of progression, moving from town to town to get better stuff, but each town had a "style" of inventory. Shame modern RPGs suck at this.

 

[eXalted]

Fallout's shops were really great in that regard... not only they felt "real", but there was always something to aim for... "I want that pistol, that armour, that eletronic lockpick, etc..."

Remember my first time as a virgin of the wasteland - gosh I needed THAT Gauss Rifle....