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Game News Torment Kickstarter Update #14: Tony Evans On Combat, Vision Doc and HOLY CRAP Another Screenshot?!

Tolknaz

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
:bravo:

I must confess, i wasn't sold on 2d backgrounds after that first image, but fuck it, the second one looks absolutely gorgeous and the polycount it aims for would probably bring even relatively modern machines to their knees when rendered in real time.
 

A user named cat

Guest
I'm pretty sure that is a ramp going up. So the answer to "vertical much?" is yes.
I just now noticed that there is a ramp heading up there too, weird. Still doesn't look right upon first glance.
 

Abraxas

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Codex 2012 Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Wasteland 2
Correct me if I'm wrong, but those screenshots are mostly a parallel projection rendering of 3D models, except for the details that are painted over it and the provisional background taken from the concept art. There can't be any weird perspective issues in the big structures, I think everybody is too much used to perspective projection and see odd angles where there is none.
 

Gondolin

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Purveyor of fine art
oasis789 said:
Chris Avellone@ChrisAvellone 1 Apr
@RealZenfar My friends don't call me by name anymore, they just call me "Stretch Goal."

There are worse things I could do,
Than stretch for a goal or two.
Even though the neighborhood
Thinks I'm trying for godhood.
I suppose this could be true,
But there are worse things I could do.

I could play Arcanum all night,
Loading after every fight...
 

hiver

Guest
Correct me if I'm wrong, but those screenshots are mostly a parallel projection rendering of 3D models, except for the details that are painted over it and the provisional background taken from the concept art. There can't be any weird perspective issues in the big structures, I think everybody is too much used to perspective projection and see odd angles where there is none.
I dont see anything actually painted over.

As for perspective - this is simply a mockup, not the final product.
 

Abraxas

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Codex 2012 Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Wasteland 2
I dont see anything actually painted over.

I was thinking of those cylindrical wooden posts in the circular platform to the left, there's even one that is semitransparent. And also the clothes, those seem painted, the ones to the right even have a plain photoshop texture over them.

Oh, and some of the imperfections in the buildings too.

But yes, I agree, it's a mockup.
 

Kem0sabe

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Well, Dying Earth fiction really is more fantasy than sci-fi anyway. Vance's stuff was chock full of magicians and demons and whatnot, Viriconium has knights and monsters and pseudo-elves and actual dwarves (except that I think they're just like, small people not a separate race, which makes it kind of brilliant). With Wolfe, it's a tougher call, but it's still sword fights and monsters (smilodons! alzabos!) and giants and so forth. So I don't think that's quite it. It's more that the settings are crumbling, rotting. Where things are beautiful, it's because they're slicked with oil. If there are huge statues, they have alien proportions and inhuman visages. Etc. One great example of this, which alas I can't find online, is the description of the Metal-Salt Marsh in "The Lamia and Lord Cromis" in Viriconium Nights. Basically it's this weird fantasy swamp full of huge fantasy opponent insects and fantasy strange trees, but the whole thing is in the context of the swamps being polluted with heavy-metal run-off, such that rather than just feeling like a romp through a low-level dungeon, it's another nail in Earth's coffin. Here's a taste from the inferior Pastel City (the first book in the same series):



Later



(And yes -- that decadent prose is as much a staple of the Dying Earth genre as anything else!)

Anyway, that scene, on some level -- a dwarf leading a knight through a magical marsh full of monsters and environmental hazards -- could just as easily be the Fellowship of the Ring detouring through the Dead Marshes. But the environmental details are unsettling; the idea that magic is grounded in a corruption of our natural world through workaday pollutants, the narcotic atmosphere, etc. I just don't get any of that from the second screenshot, while the first does have some of it.

I suppose "Haters gonna hate" applies to me.

[EDIT: Incidentally, I'm positive that Monte Cook will have read all the same books I've read in this genre, and more; his nerdscore is much higher than mine, he's been around longer, and this is his real job. So I'm sure he knows what he's doing in this respect. I hope the Torment team reads them, too, and doesn't just rely on the way they're digested into the Numenera source material because then you have the whole copy-of-a-copy effect. (Not saying Numenera is a copy; only that it is drawing upon a tradition.) I think they should be faithful to the Numenera setting, but capturing its vibe would probably be helped by knowing where that vibe comes from. Or where I imagine it comes from, anyway.]

Pretty much anything they can come out with in terms of concept for the game world is valid due to the time frame, a billion years is a surreal scale that implies human could have evolved from monkeys many times over.

Personally i think it was a mistake to be so ambitious with the timeline, if they had set it 10.000 years from now, or 5.000, they could have still come up with crazy shit without having to deal with geology and evolution... but hey, maybe they want to deal with those problems, so i'm more curious about the world building above all else.
 

Adam Heine

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Personally i think it was a mistake to be so ambitious with the timeline, if they had set it 10.000 years from now, or 5.000, they could have still come up with crazy shit without having to deal with geology and evolution... but hey, maybe they want to deal with those problems, so i'm more curious about the world building above all else.

How Monte deals with geology and evolution a billion years from now. The short answer is a billion years of sentient intervention.
 

Grunker

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Personally i think it was a mistake to be so ambitious with the timeline, if they had set it 10.000 years from now, or 5.000, they could have still come up with crazy shit without having to deal with geology and evolution... but hey, maybe they want to deal with those problems, so i'm more curious about the world building above all else.

The answer to the "1 billion year" thing is probably the easiest thing to find related to Numenera since Monte has addressed it so many times, yet people constantly keep asking it.
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
Personally i think it was a mistake to be so ambitious with the timeline, if they had set it 10.000 years from now, or 5.000, they could have still come up with crazy shit without having to deal with geology and evolution... but hey, maybe they want to deal with those problems, so i'm more curious about the world building above all else.

The answer to the "1 billion year" thing is probably the easiest thing to find related to Numenera since Monte has addressed it so many times, yet people constantly keep asking it.
Ssy Grunks. have you been following the PnP rules for this setting?
 

Kem0sabe

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How Monte deals with geology and evolution a billion years from now. The short answer is a billion years of sentient intervention.

They could go full out Peter Hamilton and throw terms around without the player understanding anything about it... "quantum thingamajig magic he said", or they could hide the world behind the experiences of a non-technological character without much of the "veil" being pulled, allowing a small peak but not the understanding of the grand forces that govern his/her existence.

I think the second option is the more viable one. Anything our human minds can come up with, including Monte, will always be grounded in our own current concepts of reality, we know how the world will be in terms of geology and cosmology a billion years from now (without sentient intervention), but what kinds of forces can we imagine that would allow life in such an earth? physics being what it is.

I prefer that the player character has a "human" perception of the world, allowing Monte and the other writers to brush over the hard questions and focus on the immediate story telling without having to resort to the mistake that many hard scifi authors make of just throwing complex words at the reader and hoping that they are impressed enough to take them as an explanation.


The answer to the "1 billion year" thing is probably the easiest thing to find related to Numenera since Monte has addressed it so many times, yet people constantly keep asking it.
People are curious, and as there are no gameplay mechanics to talk about, might as well discuss the setting itself, which at this point is very linked to that "billion years" number. Even tho i think it's an enormous timeline to fill, it doesn't stop me from having my interest peaked by it, as a scifi fan.
 

kaizoku

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MRY The thing is that this is a sci fantasy setting. So basically anything goes.
I guess Cook wanted to make planescape without planescape.
I don't like sci fantasy, and I pretty much prefer and love hard sci-fi, but with these guys I'm ok with it. I'm sure they'll make a great game.

I don't know from where you got the idea of a dying earth. Maybe I missed it on the KS.
To me this is a place of survival where new civilisations born and make use of the remains of the previous ones.
 

kaizoku

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Numenera is a science fantasy roleplaying game set in the far distant future. Humanity lives amid the remnants of eight great civilizations that have risen and fallen on Earth. These are the people of the Ninth World. This new world is filled with remnants of all the former worlds: bits of nanotechnology, the dataweb threaded among still-orbiting satellites, bio-engineered creatures, and myriad strange and wondrous devices. These remnants have become known as the numenera.

Player characters explore this world of mystery and danger to find these leftover artifacts of the past, not to dwell upon the old ways, but to help forge their new destinies, utilizing the so-called “magic” of the past to create a promising future.


Not trying to win a cookie here, but from what I've read (which I admit wasn't much) I get the idea that the people of the Ninth World are surviving and thriving, not on the brink of extension like the "dying Earth" subgenre suggests.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Numenera is a science fantasy roleplaying game set in the far distant future. Humanity lives amid the remnants of eight great civilizations that have risen and fallen on Earth. These are the people of the Ninth World. This new world is filled with remnants of all the former worlds: bits of nanotechnology, the dataweb threaded among still-orbiting satellites, bio-engineered creatures, and myriad strange and wondrous devices. These remnants have become known as the numenera.

Player characters explore this world of mystery and danger to find these leftover artifacts of the past, not to dwell upon the old ways, but to help forge their new destinies, utilizing the so-called “magic” of the past to create a promising future.


Not trying to win a cookie here, but from what I've read (which I admit wasn't much) I get the idea that the people of the Ninth World are surviving and thriving, not on the brink of extension like the "dying Earth" subgenre suggests.

It's not necessarily about being on the brink of an extinction, I think. Just the Earth not being as young and vital as it used to be.
 

kaizoku

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An interesting bit

http://www.montecookgames.com/a-billion-years/
A billion years in the future puts the people of the Ninth World farther from us than we are from the dinosaurs, temporally speaking. By a lot of years. In this time frame, continental drift has brought the continents all back together again, and probably also seen them break apart again (in the Ninth World, this has happened and actually they’ve come back together again, but we don’t know if that’s natural or the product of some past technological workings). The sun’s luminosity should increase about 10 percent, drying up the oceans and making photosynthesis impossible. But in the Ninth World, there are oceans–actually there’s only one–and plants. So again, some kind of major engineering, even megascale engineering, has gone on here.
 

Grunker

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Personally i think it was a mistake to be so ambitious with the timeline, if they had set it 10.000 years from now, or 5.000, they could have still come up with crazy shit without having to deal with geology and evolution... but hey, maybe they want to deal with those problems, so i'm more curious about the world building above all else.

The answer to the "1 billion year" thing is probably the easiest thing to find related to Numenera since Monte has addressed it so many times, yet people constantly keep asking it.
Ssy Grunks. have you been following the PnP rules for this setting?

Nope. To be honest I'm not that interested in new rules system these days :oops:

GURPS and Pathfinder basically suit my needs for the games I'm interested in running at present, so I've been slacking a bit with trying new stuff. I definetely want to run a game in the Numenera-setting, but I'll probably run it with GURPS.
 

hiver

Guest
My only worry at the moment is how much of this advanced tech of old civs will be around.

Some angles to the story seem to indicate a kind of post - post apocalyptic society - the other it looks like full blown high fantasy setting where numenera artifacts pop out left and right and even death makes you into a fucking pinata out of which numenera artifacts and items drop out.
I can think that the devs will design this properly and that it may just seem a bit overblown now, due to the campaign process and all... but i cant read anything actually said about some limits to it all.

There is a small paragraph on Numenera from Monte talking about precisely how limits enable the setting to be really grand and diverse...
- and then you get "ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN _ EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE" and cannot see anything of that "limits" part it in the PR material thats designed to attract people.

Havent found much about some limits to it all in Vision document either...

I guess we will get some info on that after the kickstarter ends and things get more towards production.


_ edit-
Adam Heine

any time youre ready guys, is fine by me...
 

lophiaspis

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They say they will decide between TB and RTWP later. Would it kill them to have both? Like Arcanum except polished.
 

Kem0sabe

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I think it's harder to balance if they implement both systems. For that matter, i would love to see someone at inxile doing a LP of ToEE.
 

Smejki

Larian Studios, ex-Warhorse
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I dont see anything actually painted over.

I was thinking of those cylindrical wooden posts in the circular platform to the left, there's even one that is semitransparent. And also the clothes, those seem painted, the ones to the right even have a plain photoshop texture over them.

Oh, and some of the imperfections in the buildings too.

But yes, I agree, it's a mockup.
It is even impossible to have the rags to the right so big in paralel-iso projection. Paralel-iso means that everything has its fixed dimensions regardless the distance from camera, unlike perspective projection. So yea, this is a fake-y thing.
 

J_C

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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
They say they will decide between TB and RTWP later. Would it kill them to have both? Like Arcanum except polished.
No. It just fucks up the gameplay. Both needs a different approach when it comes to game design. They should decide about it now, and tailor the gameplay for one of them.
 

Brother None

inXile Entertainment
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It's more that the settings are crumbling, rotting.
I don't know if that's quite right. I'm still working my way through (finished Vance's Dying Earth, halfway through the books of the New Sun, Viriconium is next (and yes, I believe everyone on the team has read Vance/Wolfe at least, and I'll recommend Viriconium if it's as good as people say it is)), but Wolfe's earth has plenty of beautiful places, though Vance's seems more depressing. But even Vance has a kind of decadence on his decay, and some of his cities are more well-preserved, even if others are in ruins (I had my problems with Dying Earth but one of its stories from book 1, the one with the colored cloaks and the ancient high-tech city split between two factions, that one worked well for me).

As for Sagus Cliffs, well, a) this is an early screenshot and they will always look "cleaner" than once it's further along and b) Sagus is kinda of layered by the ages, which means parts of it are ruins (and under the sea-level) while parts of it are more recent and more preserved.

Not trying to win a cookie here, but from what I've read (which I admit wasn't much) I get the idea that the people of the Ninth World are surviving and thriving, not on the brink of extension like the "dying Earth" subgenre suggests.
People are doing well in the Steadfast, but "well" is a relative term, they're still living at medieval-level living standards despite the aid of "magical" tools.

Out where we're at with Torment, in the Beyond, humanity is not thriving.

Also unlike most "Dying Earth" genre pieces, like Vance, Wolfe, Dark Sun, in this one the sun is not reduced and dying. That makes a big difference.
 

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