Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Zed]

Wasteland 2 is the result of a team that doesn't have any idea how to make a RPG trying to play safe, waaaay too safe.

What?
With your hypothesis, wouldn't "trying to play safe" be a good thing?

 

[DeepOcean]

Wasteland 2 is the result of a team that doesn't have any idea how to make a RPG trying to play safe, waaaay too safe.

What?
With your hypothesis, wouldn't "trying to play safe" be a good thing?

By playing too safe I meant low ambition, really low ambition, example: Rpg players like reactivity right? So let's give them really obvious options A, B and C that are totally independent from the character skills and previous character actions and call it reactivity. So you choose options on a shopping list, instead of interesting variations and permutations happening all over the place and involving the character skills and choices, taking you by surprise and making you go...WHOA THAT WAS AWESOME. Shopping list choices while better than none won't excite me any day of the week.That is an example of playing too safe and going to the easier rout. This is just one of the examples. Torment, so far, has a much more "innovative" and interesting design.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm not sure that's a correct description of the reactivity in Wasteland 2. It may even be the opposite of it. You have people wondering why there ISN'T a "shopping list".

I agree that Wasteland 2 was designed in an unambitious way in some respects but the approach it's taken towards reactivity is actually pretty unusual.

 

[tuluse]

W2 isn't a monumental fuckup, it's just mediocre right now.

I also don't think it's lacking in ambition. I think it's more accurate to say it's lacking in direction or focus.

 

[DeepOcean]

W2 isn't a monumental fuckup, it's just mediocre right now.

I also don't think it's lacking in ambition. I think it's more accurate to say it's lacking in direction or focus.

Call it ambition, direction, focus but that it's lacking a "spice" on it, it's lacking.

 

[Infinitron]

I also don't think it's lacking in ambition.

You have a problem with the word "ambition", don't you?

I would say that purposely avoiding a fully open world by using plot gating, not creating large open hubs full of people to talk to, and the absence of deep conversations in favor of keywords that you click on, are all symptoms of reduced ambition.

(Perfectly understandable given the game's limited budget and the lack of foreknowledge that the oldschool RPG market would explode the way it did, of course. Not to mention the lack of foreknowledge that Steam Early Access would exist.)

I just don't understand why people focus on intangible things like "spice" or "focus" when they criticize Wasteland 2's beta. It's like they can't see what's right under their noses.

 

[tuluse]

On the other hand, it's a mostly open world. Features a squad based tactical system which can be used at any time (what's the last Bioware game that let you fight at any time?). Multiple skill based solutions to problems. I'm pretty sure the final game is going to be bigger and have more stuff to do than Fallout 1.

I would agree that it's lacking ambition compared to the other big kickstarter RPGs, but not compared to other games people have been enjoying recently like Blackguards or Shadowrun.

 

[Infinitron]

Fair enough.

 

[hiver]

Stop talking and judging - apologizing a game (beta) you havent even played - retards.

 

[Mad Ducky Entertainment]

Leery as I may be after WL2, TToN has more star power behind it than that. Also, the fact InXile has not only Torment's old team on their side, but also MCG, I am not worried one bit.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

There's just an insane amount of talent there, these guys have a proven track record and everything they have said makes me sure we are in for a spiritual successor to Planescape Torment and Mask of the Betrayer.

Of course it could get to the point that in a year's time they will all suddenly look at each other and say, "Shit, we thumb twiddled all that time?". Too many cooks can spoil the broth.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.adamheine.com/2014/04/ama-on-road.html

AMA on the Road

I am currently in Incheon Airport in Korea, awaiting the end of my 8-hour layover so I can finish another journey to Newport Beach and another week of design meetings, pizza, more design meetings, Greek food, brainstorming meetings (you know, where we brainstorm design), Mexican food, and the beach. Except for the part where I leave my family for 10 days (and, you know, kill 8 hours in an airport), I'm pretty excited about it.

But I do have some questions to answer! So let's get to these.

All these questions are from Surface Rlf:

If the player it to be forewarned about possible failure, or chances for that failure - shouldn't that be dependent on level of his skill for that specific task?
So, a low level, beginner thief would not be able to know how dangerous some trap or lock is with any greater precision (this lock looks challenging, duh), while a master thief would be able to evaluate the dangers with more exact precision, presumably knowing the exact type and maker and specific of the lock or trap.
Or at least be able to deduce the potential risks with more precision?
- instead of some global knowledge available to everyone - of that class?

These are cool ideas, and if we had more resources to devote to implementing and debugging this kind of gameplay, I'd put it in Torment. (I know it doesn't seem all that complicated, but even a small thing like this can increase balancing and debugging time exponentially.) At the moment, pending prototyping and iteration of our exploration gameplay, we're allowing the player to choose how much of the task difficulties they see (actual numbers vs. abstracted numbers (default) vs. none), primarily focusing our resources toward conversations, Crises, and reactivity instead.

Save scumming in usual gameplay may be fine, but what about saving during TB combat?

It's likely this will be possible in Torment (our Crises are planned to be longish, in-depth affairs), so I stand by my statement in this interview. Namely, we are taking care in our design so as not to encourage nor require savescumming, even in TB combat. But for some folks, that's how they want to play, so we're not going to expend tons of resources to prohibit it.


- have you played Age of Decadence?

Sadly, no.

As for [random number generation (a topic dealt with in the same interview)]... isnt that what gives RPG mechanics a very valuable sense of authenticity and believability? Lets look at... Sergei Bubka, at his prime. World recorder and master champion of his sport with no one equal or even close in skill at the time. Did he succeed in every single jump? Furthermore... shouldn't RNG lessen the more skilled a character is and be greater the lower level of skill is? (but never be completely removed?) Seems reasonable and believable to me.

I agree (though as I said in the interview, deterministic can be fun too). Sounds like you'll enjoy Torment's design


Oh, i guess the fact that the player has the option of switching between all those Foci will be excused through narrative - of player being a castoff.

Something like that, yeah

 

[StaticSpine]

Hey, bros!

Does anyone know how the news get to tumbl.torment page? I mean is there a way to connect to the page admin or something?

 

[agris]

Has any Torment dev gone on the record about whether they will telegraph dialogue skill/ability checks via the

"[Intelligence] Those circular bleeding wounds appear to be due to bullets..."
"[Speech 50] You mother was a delightful whore.."

type-tags? I like that we can disable them in PoE, and I hope that the dialogue lines themselves reflect the skills being checked, without the [XYZ #] system.

 

[Infinitron]

Hey, bros!

Does anyone know how the news get to tumbl.torment page? I mean is there a way to connect to the page admin or something?

Brother None updates it.

 

[StaticSpine]

Hey, bros!

Does anyone know how the news get to tumbl.torment page? I mean is there a way to connect to the page admin or something?

Brother None updates it.

Thanks man!

 

[Infinitron]

Hey, bros!

Does anyone know how the news get to tumbl.torment page? I mean is there a way to connect to the page admin or something?

Brother None updates it.

Thanks man!

http://tormentrpg.tumblr.com/post/82860314292/torment-tides-of-numenera-russian-wiki

Torment: Tides of Numenera Russian Wiki
Some of our Russian fans have recently launched a Russian wiki on wikia for Torment: Tides of Numenera. We encourage all our Russian fans to join in and help ‘em grow!

 

[StaticSpine]

http://tormentrpg.tumblr.com/post/82860314292/torment-tides-of-numenera-russian-wiki

Yup, I wrote a pm to BroNone and I've seen the post on tumblr.


Отправлено из моего iPod touch используя Tapatalk

 

[Infinitron]

https://twitter.com/SaundersKevin/status/455362320785371137

@ColinMcComb shows me this sketch from his and @adamheine Saturday discussions about a #torment story segment pic.twitter.com/SkrwHBEsSi

https://twitter.com/SaundersKevin/status/455745223528706049

@ColinMcComb hides behind another of art masterpieces, @Nathan_R_Long cowering nearby. #torment area design review pic.twitter.com/fo83umI5Et

https://twitter.com/SaundersKevin/status/456111214825725953

@ColinMcComb discusses story and areas with some of our artists pic.twitter.com/gyHaJV4HwP

 

[StaticSpine]

I read through the game ideas in the official community and remember the questions from steam to VD (http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/age-of-decadence-march-update.90977/#post-3220582)

Non-standard fantasy races
One of my pet peeves in RPGs is the cut-and-dry human/elf/dwarf thing. I'd love to see some representation for other, less common races. Planescape already has a leg up on traditional high fantasy due to plane-touched races being more accessible and the like. But I would flip my lid if there were feytouched, gnolls, and lizardmen, for example. While it'd be cool to see npcs of non-standard races, I'd love to see one or two companions that stood out a bit, too. Those are always some of the most memorable and are frequently my favorite in RPGs.

A wandering child witch.
A child witch that wonders the streets searching for her smaller sister.Her smaller sister has the apearance of an old witch(actually 9 years old but she looks 90) that have used a demonic ritual and asked the demon to become as wise as her older sister(The wandering child witch is actually 90 years old)

Music Style Option
First of all i love music with rythmic and melodies and hate monotonous ambient music. But there are people who don't like listen drums in the music, so i propose an option to select style of the music.

New idea Planescape Torment
More about the impact of its actions and election of the character on the game world is Very important! and I wish the world had changed Enough apparently .. and even Visually! it visually - in consequence of changes "orientation"(or "karma"..) character.. Slowly.. and changed the world - 1. the attitude of others towards you! 2. relationships between people in General - that is what the environment sees the character around himself! Greater or lesser number of bandits and crimes etc. "injustice" of the evil, good and other things..... 3. The changing nature itself, and (that is..) of the map of the world - polee cloudy, grim or cheerful, fun atmosphere... and then the more gradations - even better!! And it is important to move gradually - for example, the character is doing poorly and watching myself first nesanaca as it appears in a different world(but still..) but the world is not so! and the further you go, the worse - And this is not all! So as long as the character is not yet broke a portal between the worlds physically! But through it once to move to a different world is not so simple!! Portals can implement randomly so that existed probabilistic the opportunity to get the player to deserve the world(which should be a Lot! - well or even 9.) the more he moves away from the "point of rest", that is, the "karma" which corresponds to the reality in which he is at the given moment, the more likely he unknown(or known, under certain conditions,..) to itself(the more diverse and more options the better..) get into the portal corresponding to his present condition!!Well would implement a similar system of worlds, with Planescape Torment in terms of difference and diversity of the worlds..

Since LGBTQ is implemented, please include Sexuality during Character Creation
The great thing about some modern AAA CRPGs is the willingness to include romance/flirt options with same-sex characters.

The bad thing (for me), is having to fend off their slightly-too-forward advances when I'm role-playing a straight character. Especially bad when rejecting them will cause a huge loss of Loyalty Points sub rosa.

I don't mind if my gay/bi companions say something like, "If you were gay, I'd be all over you." but I'll be damned if they went, "I'm gay and I'm gonna be all over you, whether you like or not." or something similar to that effect.

Perhaps we can specify our sexual orientation during character creation that would turn off all Dialogue Flags for such homosexual interactions with the option to chance it during certain events/dialogues (e.g. earlier example "If you were gay, I'd be all over you." followed by a choice to flip the Sexual Orientation switch and have the option to say "I'm not averse from experimenting, actually.") available?

returning charcters
a number of the companions from the original game were (ageless?) immortal. id love to see the return of those companions, and if they ARE ageless and are bound to the nameless one, then theres a higher than random chance they MIGHT be present surely?

making it available for mobile devices
I don't understand why you don't plan on making the game for either the Kindle FX or the iPad. While I have both a laptop and a desktop computer I never play games on them anymore. I spend almost a 'll my free time using my Kindle or the iPad because they are so mobile. More and more people don't have time to sit at a computer or cArrying around a laptop which is cumbersom. In today's world you see most persons accessing more mobile devices so they can play games while waiting for appointments, on breaks, and other times when they are wAiting for something or someone or are just bored where they are but can't leave. Why don't you take a survey of your customers and see how much they use their mobile devices ices instead of computers? I hope you will change your mind and make "Torment" available for mobile devices.
Thanks,
cmmerritt

No healing or Saving during combat
If you really want to make combat a dangerous and appropriately difficult and demanding choice, if you want to make it really have an impact and be a risk a player would not take on lightly,... you need to do disable healing or saving during it.

 

[Roguey]

Has any Torment dev gone on the record about whether they will telegraph dialogue skill/ability checks via the

"[Intelligence] Those circular bleeding wounds appear to be due to bullets..."
"[Speech 50] You mother was a delightful whore.."

type-tags? I like that we can disable them in PoE, and I hope that the dialogue lines themselves reflect the skills being checked, without the [XYZ #] system.

As I recall, you won't know there's a check to pass until after you've selected it, where you're told you either passed or failed. If you fail, you can spend stat points to make up the difference.

 

[Infinitron]

Has any Torment dev gone on the record about whether they will telegraph dialogue skill/ability checks via the

"[Intelligence] Those circular bleeding wounds appear to be due to bullets..."
"[Speech 50] You mother was a delightful whore.."

type-tags? I like that we can disable them in PoE, and I hope that the dialogue lines themselves reflect the skills being checked, without the [XYZ #] system.

As I recall, you won't know there's a check to pass until after you've selected it, where you're told you either passed or failed. If you fail, you can spend stat points to make up the difference.

I'm not sure it's like that: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera/posts/547455

I hinted at die rolls above, which brings me to something else I want to share with you. Active skills—that is, skills you choose to use and have the option to apply Effort to—will be done with die rolls. In dialogue, these skills will usually be things like Persuasion, Deception, and Intimidation, although other skills might find uses in dialogue as well. In some cases, if you fail a task, Effort can also be spent to gain a second chance.

But we have a whole category of Lore skills that represent your knowledge. These skills will enable certain response options in dialogue, giving you choices that a player without the skill wouldn't have. When this happens, there won't be a die roll, because the skill is being used without requiring effort on your part. The unlocked response options are just there.

You won't know a special response has been unlocked until after you choose it. I'll explain why in a second. Take this example:
NPC: "Here's the device Colin gave me, though I haven't opened it yet. I want my wife to have that honor." He shows you a capsule made of synthsteel. Shadows seem to slide off it, making it appear brighter than everything else in the room. It bears strange, jagged markings.

1. "Where did he find it?"
2. "Do you know what these markings are?"
3. "I think these markings mean 'Death'."
4. "Do you mind if I keep it for a bit to examine it?"
5. Open it.

Response #3 would only be available if you're trained in Lore: Linguistics. But that skill would only be mentioned after you choose it. The reason for this is because many RPG players—ourselves included—have been trained that specially marked or specially unlocked responses are always going to be the best ones. And so we choose them without thinking.

Of course, you'll eventually be able to figure out which responses are available due to your skills, like when your linguistically inclined character is always deciphering texts, but you'll have to read and think about the responses to do so. More importantly, the Lore-based responses won't always be the best options, just different ones.

If you select Response #3, for example, you might find that admitting your knowledge to this NPC means you don't have the capsule for later:
3. "I think these markings mean 'Death'."

NPC: [Lore: Linguistics] "What?!" He glares at the inscription, as though anger alone will enable him to read it. Then he tucks the capsule back in its bag. "That bastard. I'll get Colin back for this, believe me!"

As you can see, it's only the "Lore" skills (which are "non-active") that he says are unmarked. I assume that an "active" skill would be marked since you're given the option to apply effort to it.

 

[agris]

Thanks Infinitron, I forgot about that update. What you quoted sounds pretty reasonable. Much better than how FO3 and FNV handled it.

 

[veryalien]

Effort in Numenera is spent -before- the roll. It's a way of spending finite points you have between rest periods to increase your chances at things you are not particularly good at.

 

[Mad Ducky Entertainment]

This^
And I really like the rest system in the tabletop, where you get like max two instaheals per day (one from taking a one action rest, and another from healing), and the three other rest periods require increasing blocks of time to achieve the same effect. I hope they leave that rest mechanic the way it is.