Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[polo]

Ah, the codex. Gotta love it.

 

[hiver]

To tell you the truth i dont have much hopes for this game, although some glimmer remains. I still didnt get the bad squirrel dream so... im holding out for now.
Then again, Ratatosk could simply want nothing to do with this game dreams anymore.
- yes, thats all i have -

Seeing how we will start a Torment game as a fucking falling star ... -
Thats not a sign of a Torment game, its a sign of a game thats trying to be "epic" and "awesome" and "cool".

Im not sure at all would delaying the game mean anything substantial anyway, but one would hope it would mean the team is trying to come up with better, deeper quests and C&C then utter mind-numbing cheap schlock "emotional content" W2 had.

 

[Roguey]

AoO is an optional rule in Numenera PnP so let's hope they won't do that to us. If there's something I really dislike about PoE it's the Engagement system.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9462

As to the question about the pacing of the turn-based gameplay, besides just an emphasis on fewer, but more carefully designed encounters, we’re investigating several possibilities to refine the flow to ensure that it doesn’t drag. One such possibility is a class of character abilities we’re calling Defensive Maneuvers. These are off-turn actions that the player can activate, spending Stat Pool points to set up triggered attacks, counters, and other reactions. The simplest of these function like an Attack of Opportunity (or the Overwatch/Ambush actions in XCOM/Wasteland 2).

It's turn-based, so nbd.

 

[hiver]

I dont know, maybe im overreacting (maybe, haha) about that start of the game but it just didnt sound that great... and its easy to overblow stuff when you think it wont matter anyway,to say the least... They probably have more stuff to tell about it, but it was a short version for quick presentation etc, etc.
Im thinking of either skipping or delaying beta, actually. So i avoid all that early stuff and grind this time.

 

[Infinitron]

CMcC DMs a game of Numenera: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-04-12-an-afternoon-with-torment-tides-of-numeneras-dm

 

[Aenra]

The devs have implied that you'll constantly be on the run in this game.

Out of curiosity, how do people feel about that?
Outside of adventure games, am generally against mechanics -overt or otherwise- dictating my pacing. For me one of the core RPG features is doing my thing, when i wish to, up and until i can no more and the price paid mine*.
Taking that away from me turns me real sour. The more i am forced to focus on a specific aspect because 'pressure' the more i tend, naturally i think, to neglect paying attention to peripherals. Meaning that soon enough, i find me in a linear road to meeting 'x' goal with whatever mental prowess i possess focused or adapting to a meta/power playing stance. I know the consequences of delaying, i can estimate what the game will 'reward' me for doing, i think or try and conform to the style/decisions most beneficial, etc.. Which tends to kill the mood for me.
Or, if the game is really well done, piss me off royally because i am passing things by which are of interest to me, but i cannot spend time examining because 'pressure'. As i said.. not a fan

Spoiler

* which is what true C&C is for me, but that's a different story i guess

 

[Infinitron]

I imagine people feel fine about it, since there's no real-time time passage. Time only passes when you rest

(not that there's anything wrong with time limits, git gud, etc)

 

[hiver]

Instead, you'll be a lowly old human idiot, recently re-emerging on the scene and landed in a world that now exists at a medieval level of sophistication.

Shame we will be a fabulous faaalliiiing staaaaar in Tides...

If we get some of that in the final game - not the fingers, but the understanding of how to create the right effect - we're in for a good time. A bad time, obviously, because it's a Torment game, but a good bad time if you get my meaning.

Nope, you dont make any fucking sense at all.
Horrible article.

 

[ArchAngel]

I imagine people feel fine about it, since there's no real-time time passage. Time only passes when you rest

(not that there's anything wrong with time limits, git gud, etc)

Or when you do quests that move time.

 

[Sensuki]

Well, if they want instant AoOs without animations, I guess they could.

AoO is an optional rule in Numenera PnP so let's hope they won't do that to us. If there's something I really dislike about PoE it's the Engagement system.

Yeah fuck AoOs Adam Heine - Banner Saga didn't need them. Moving in melee is cool and tactical without it.

 

[Roguey]

As I pointed out earlier on this page, they're xcom/shadowrun returns/wasteland 2-style aoos in that you have to opt in to them.

 

[hiver]

I see no point, sense or relevance in anyone just claiming AoOs are bad, while only observing a specific, limited and constrained version of their implementation.

 

[Lord Andre]

Overwatch (I think this is the term used these days) is not AoO and is a pretty good mechanic. It would be even better if it were customizable with trigger conditions instead of "shoot first enemy that moves into line of sight.

 

[Sensuki]

Overwatch is a good mechanic.

 

[Athelas]

Overwatch (I think this is the term used these days) is not AoO and is a pretty good mechanic. It would be even better if it were customizable with trigger conditions instead of "shoot first enemy that moves into line of sight.

Overwatch is a specific implementation of attacks of opportunity. They both fulfill similar functions in a turn-based game.

 

[Infinitron]

My "siege tank engagement" idea for PoE is kind of like melee overwatch.

 

[Sensuki]

But for melee (why?) and in a real-time system.

Yeah bros, I'm just gonna park myself here, just walk around me.

Would work in corridors, that's about it.

 

[prodigydancer]

Overwatch can be cheesy if AI cannot deal with it. It could be abused it in SRR and SRD to rolfstomp various otherwise very challenging encounters (most notably - the optional room full of high-level guards right before the final battle in SRD).

 

[ArchAngel]

Overwatch (I think this is the term used these days) is not AoO and is a pretty good mechanic. It would be even better if it were customizable with trigger conditions instead of "shoot first enemy that moves into line of sight.

Overwatch is a specific implementation of attacks of opportunity. They both fulfill similar functions in a turn-based game.

Not true. Overwatch is computer name for "Ready an Action" from PnP and it exists in both D&D and Numenera and works the same. You sacrifice your action on your turn so you can get an action outside of your turn when certain event happens. Attack of Opportunity is an action that happens outside your turn and it is a kind of a free action that you don't need to sacrifice anything for.

 

[Athelas]

I was using 'attacks of opportunity' in a general sense - plenty of turn-based games use the same concept under a different name.

Both attacks of opportunity and overwatch let you exercise control over the battle field by a character when you're not actively controlling that character. Attacks of opportunity also typically require you to sacrifice something (it usually requires positioning and/or certain types of weapons).

 

[Sensuki]

Overwatch uses the characters current action

Attack of Opportunity is a free action

big difference

Overwatch = good, AoO = gay

 

[Athelas]

Uhm, you realize I refuted what you're saying in the post you're replying to? You should come up with a different argument.

By the way, overwatch has one noticeable downside - enemy A.I. likely not being able to set up overwatch as smartly and efficiently as the human player.

 

[hiver]

Sensuki, you are getting more and more retarded every day.

Attack of opportunity is what the name says it is. A fucking attack of opportunity - that your character performs himself when that fucking opportunity arises. Nothing says it must be "free".

Whether it costs something (APS or whatever) or not is a matter of specific implementation.

 

[tuluse]

It's a lot easier to discuss things if attacks of opportunity are separated from overwatch/reaction fire.

 

[sser]

Balance-wise it makes sense for melee AoO's to be free.

An Overwatch attacks anyone who moves and at range.

An Attack of Opportunity only attacks those you're already standing next to at melee range - and only those who move away, an important qualifier. Someone who fights back isn't going to give you an AoO.

(Some games implement free-Overwatch attacks on people shooting, others use move-only for activation. I think XCOM had both, with the former nestled in a perk.)


The intrinsic cost of AoO is the time/AP it took for you to get to the target.

The price you pay for an Overwatch is the price you pay for getting to stay where you are.