Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Zorba the Hutt]

He must be retardoing SJW and GG posts in a better place now

 

[prodigydancer]

As for TToN - if it's as good as PoE, I'll maybe even forgive inXile for their decision to make it TB.

Joined: Feb 16, 2015
Jaesun

Jaesun was last seen: Apr 5, 2015

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Hobo Elf]

As for TToN - if it's as good as PoE, I'll maybe even forgive inXile for their decision to make it TB.

Since they're still mum about alpha, I just hope they'll release more gameplay footage in the nearby future.

 

[Merlkir]

Hey, a few miliseconds of gameplay! :D (srsly though, finishing PoE, I'm starting to look forward to this one too.)

 

[dragonul09]

If this game ends like the mediocre mess that PoE was, i'm going to lose all hope in Obsidian and Inxile.What pisses me off even more is their constant complaint about those big bad boiz in black suits ,that held back their vast imagination and masterfull skills in creating unique rpgs.And what they gave us?
PoE-The epitome of generic rpgs (They had all the freedom in the world to create something good and you give me Pillars of Baldurs Gate)
Wasteland 2-another unfinished abomination that i couldn't force myself to finish it

I will never replay those two abominations because the replay value is 0 for both of them.

So let's hope this one will not end like these two garbage cans.

 

[Ivan]

edgy


ZIETS

 

[Athelas]

What pisses me off even more is their constant complaint about those big bad boiz in black suits ,that held back their vast imagination and masterfull skills in creating unique rpgs.

As lead designer of Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, you may have gotten away with writing the most un-Star Wars Star Wars story ever, going so far as to depict the Dark Side as perhaps not being a bad choice. How did you convince LucasArts to let you take The Force in a new direction?

They may have been too busy with Episode III, although they did review our work and seemed pleased with it. They only had five or six comments over the course of development, and one of them was our Devaronian’s horns were off, and there was one instance where we’d misspelled Atton’s name in a document or dialogue as “Anton.”

 

[Infinitron]

As far as I can remember, nobody at Obsidian (or even at inXile, to be honest) has ever really complained that publishers didn't allow them to explore a particular narrative theme once a project had already been greenlit. In inXile's case, the complaints about publishers are almost entirely about their meddling with budgets & timetables, and about how they wouldn't fund Wasteland 2 of course.

 

[dragonul09]

As far as I can remember, nobody at Obsidian (or even at inXile, to be honest) has ever really complained that publishers didn't allow them to explore a particular narrative theme once a project had already been greenlit. In inXile's case, the complaints about publishers are almost entirely about their meddling with budgets & timetables, and about how they wouldn't fund Wasteland 2 of course.

Thank god no one was stupid enough to fund Wasteland 2,what horrible experience that game was.

 

[Perkel]

As far as I can remember, nobody at Obsidian (or even at inXile, to be honest) has ever really complained that publishers didn't allow them to explore a particular narrative theme once a project had already been greenlit. In inXile's case, the complaints about publishers are almost entirely about their meddling with budgets & timetables, and about how they wouldn't fund Wasteland 2 of course.

That is false. Just because they didn't had to fuck around with publishers it didn't mean that they could do anything they want.
They are smart people so probably played safe ball on contract hunting.

obsidian: Hey look, we will be doing planescape torment spiritual successor ! GIB US MONEY
Publisher: Fuck you i want some stats and rpg not book to read !

They fiddled with dark side of the force but if they would outright made some sith good character probably suits would step up.

 

[Infinitron]

http://tormentrpg.tumblr.com/post/117690685205/adam-and-kevin-on-various-topics

Adam and Kevin on various topics
Project Lead Kevin Saunders and Design Lead Adam Heine have posted thoughts and replies to various topics on our forums.

Adam on Voice Acting.

I generally feel the same as you guys WRT VO. I like good VO, but when there is either descriptive text interspersed or else a lot of spoken text, I start to wish it weren’t there so I could just read.
For TTON, we have always said we wouldn’t do full VO. We will likely only voice key lines for key characters (the way PST generally did).
Also, we already have conventions in place that voiced nodes should be relatively short and include little or no descriptive text. Alternatively, if only part of the node will be voiced, it will always be the first sentence or two of spoken text (and the node will include no descriptive text until after the voiced portion).

Adam on making a quality game.

The other posters have their hearts in the right place. Combat isn’t the primary focus of this game and leveling and crafting is very different from what you’ll find in a “typical” RPG.
However, we very much share your concerns about this being a good GAME.
“Combat isn’t our primary focus” is our way of saying “if we had to fail at either dialogue/story/reactivity versus combat, then we will choose to fail at combat.” But we very much want the whole game to be good. Some of our efforts to that end include:
* Focusing on quality combat encounters rather than quantity. There will be no trash mobs in Torment (though that means fewer encounters overall).
Making each combat encounter fun, narratively important, and tactical. This is our Crisis system which I’m sure someone can link you to.
* Giving the player a wide variety of tactical choices in each encounter. Cover is on our radar as one of these choices, but no telling yet if we’ll have time to put it in and make it great. Whether cover’s in or not, the player will have a variety of tactics to choose from. (The Corebook is mostly silent on such matters, but it does touch on them in Chapter 9, particularly the Using Miniatures section. Note that, because this is a CRPG, we are by default “using miniatures” to represent combat ).
* Making progression through the game fun. MReed is absolutely right in his assessment of progression in the tabletop game. In a CRPG, however, level progression becomes more important. I’ve made a disgusting number of calculations and spreadsheets to determine where the character will likely be at different points in the game, what their characters will play like, and what they will be capable of. It’s not exactly flat.
* Crafting is fun and serves the rest of the game. I can’t hunt for the link right now, but I’ve spoken at length on crafting in one of our Kickstarter updates. Short version: it’s not a recipe-based, collection mechanic. I tend to skip crafting in most RPGs as well, so I wanted to design something that was different: fun, simple, and that fits the flavor of Numenera as much as possible. It’ll be a while before we can implement it to see if we succeeded, but everyone seems pretty happy with the design .
Fortunately, it’s not entirely an either/or question with regards to dialogue vs. combat. For a few members of our team, making Crises functional and then great is their main goal. Keep watching. We’ll have things to show you on that front in the months to come.
Torment isn’t about the combat, but it’s still a game. We want to make it the best one we can.

Kevin on character visibility.

Scenes that contain Crises are designed to the needs of the Crisis. It is thus easier for us to avoid combat visibility issues because we know exactly where these combat situations would occur.
We have tentative plans for Tussles, which are more limited than Crises. These are smaller combat encounters that can arise in some situations. These are still few in number and hand-placed, so we should be able to avoid/minimize visibility issues for them as well.
(Our camera angle is very similar, if not exactly the same as, that of Pillars of Eternity.)

Kevin on the Tides (on RPGCodex).

Assorted notes, most of which are in response to various comments in this thread:
1. Right – the Tides focus on actions for two reasons:
a) we can detect player actions, but we can’t detect motivation. We wanted to avoid the frustration that would result from us inevitably miscategorizing a player’s intentions. Especially since the Tides are new and unfamiliar (and deliberately involved), preventing this frustration is a challenge even when it is based upon the actions.
b) a person’s legacy is based upon how they were perceived, which is arguably more based upon their actions (which could include their stated motivations), not their true internal motivations. (To that end, in cases where the player explicitly declares their motivations, it’s treated as an action, albeit a fairly minor one.
2. We are undecided on how transparent Tide changes should be to players. Fortunately, this should be easy to adjust as we develop and play through more content (which is why we haven’t prioritized answering this particular question). A player option is a possibility, but not a certainty yet.
3. In general, we have found the Tides’ complexity and nuances to be challenging to navigate. We recognized and accepted this challenge from the start and haven’t been disappointed. (This is a reason, for example, that some of our earliest work was on the five novellas that explore the nature of each Tide.) We see risk in how well we’ll be able to both clearly communicate to players about the Tides as well as how fully we can realize their potential. It’s been going reasonably well, and I think many players will find it interesting, but there are still weaknesses and I’m not sure yet how close we will get to “amazing.” In any case, the Tides are by no means an afterthought and they receive considerable attention because we strive for “amazing.”
4. This may seem contrary to my “by no means an afterthought” comment above, but most of our reactivity is focused first on the characters and the situations. We rarely structure conversations for the Tides. This was deliberate because we don’t want to warp the content to serve the Tides. And if the Tides can reasonably accomplish what we’re asking of them, then they can be somewhat unobtrusive. (There are some cases where the Tides are more front and center, but more often the part they play is more supportive than driving.)
5. Yes, an action can increase more than one Tide (or none of them). We try to avoid having an action that seems appropriate for more than two Tides, however, though part of this is in iteration. The Tides are not in direct conflict with each other.
6. Yes, it is possible for the PC to be balanced in the Tides such that they have no dominant one. We aren’t approaching this (or any of the Tides, really) as an explicit philosophy or such, but we are accounting for this possibility. (I.e., you shouldn’t expect explicit conversations debating the value of one Tide vs. another - any comparison will be more subtle than that and they aren’t really things to compare. They aren’t exactly an alignment system in the flavor of D&D’s.)

Looks like the Pillars of Eternity butthurt brigade is on the roll. And Kevin making people upset again.

 

[prodigydancer]

Looks like the Pillars of Eternity butthurt brigade is on the roll.

At the very least character visibility concerns are justified. Obsidian dropped the ball on this (despited being warned repeatedly during the BB). It is possible, of course, to pause and mouseover selection circles to see who's where but in a large fight it gets rather tedious and at any rate it's a step backwards from the IE.

 

[aleph]

If this game ends like the mediocre mess that PoE was, i'm going to lose all hope in Obsidian and Inxile.What pisses me off even more is their constant complaint about those big bad boiz in black suits ,that held back their vast imagination and masterfull skills in creating unique rpgs.And what they gave us?
PoE-The epitome of generic rpgs (They had all the freedom in the world to create something good and you give me Pillars of Baldurs Gate)
Wasteland 2-another unfinished abomination that i couldn't force myself to finish it

I will never replay those two abominations because the replay value is 0 for both of them.

So let's hope this one will not end like these two garbage cans.

Joined: Dec 19, 2014

 

[dragonul09]

If this game ends like the mediocre mess that PoE was, i'm going to lose all hope in Obsidian and Inxile.What pisses me off even more is their constant complaint about those big bad boiz in black suits ,that held back their vast imagination and masterfull skills in creating unique rpgs.And what they gave us?
PoE-The epitome of generic rpgs (They had all the freedom in the world to create something good and you give me Pillars of Baldurs Gate)
Wasteland 2-another unfinished abomination that i couldn't force myself to finish it

I will never replay those two abominations because the replay value is 0 for both of them.

So let's hope this one will not end like these two garbage cans.

Joined: Dec 19, 2014

Now that you have revealed my join date,i really feel disgusted with myself for dissing such majestic pieces of art.I will never cross that line again ,so please forgive me for telling the truth ,you fucking retard.

 

[VioletShadow]

Where's the smiley men? I could have sworn we had one! :ehue:

 

[aleph]

Now that you have revealed my join date,i really feel disgusted with myself for dissing such majestic pieces of art.I will never cross that line again ,so please forgive me for telling the truth ,you fucking retard.

 

[DeepOcean]

There will be no trash mobs in Torment.

If someone told me two years ago that of all the Infinite Engine games, it maybe a Torment sequel the first one to not have a total crap combat I would laugh at his face... what little I knew...

 

[Seari]

Doesn't mean it wont be shit. I don't think it's possible for it to be worse than in Pillows though, and in TTON combat won't be 90% of the game.

 

[Sensuki]

TToN has the advantage of being turn-based - so it's easier to do properly. Real-time is harder to get right.

 

[Rake]

TToN has the advantage of being turn-based - so it's easier to do properly. Real-time is harder to get right.

To be honest, i'm sure i would have found PoE's combat boring even if it was TB. Shit encounter design,shit magic spells,shit items would be the same even in a TB game.
Only engagment would be improved, but it isn't the worst problem this game has for me

 

[Perkel]

TToN has the advantage of being turn-based - so it's easier to do properly. Real-time is harder to get right.

To be honest, i'm sure i would have found PoE's combat boring even if it was TB. Shit encounter design,shit magic spells,shit items would be the same even in a TB game.
Only engagment would be improved, but it isn't the worst problem this game has for me

All of those problems comes from game being real time.

 

[Sensuki]

TToN has the advantage of being turn-based - so it's easier to do properly. Real-time is harder to get right.

To be honest, i'm sure i would have found PoE's combat boring even if it was TB. Shit encounter design,shit magic spells,shit items would be the same even in a TB game.
Only engagment would be improved, but it isn't the worst problem this game has for me

Sure, it would still be boring - however it would definitely be better turn-based lol.

 

[Infinitron]

Transcript of Colin McComb Rezzed talk: http://colinmccomb.com/?p=235

 

[Infinitron]

I have no idea what this is