Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

[FeelTheRads]

Or thoughtful friend.

 

[StaticSpine]

 

[hexer]

This explains a LOT!

You don't go and create a PST spiritual successor with MCA writing just a single companion..
when THIS is how things were the first time around...

https://www.rpgwatch.com/articles/tales-of-torment-part-1-55.html

RPGWatch: How was work divided and who did what (areas/NPCs/dialogue)?

Chris Avellone: I wrote a first draft and character briefs of most of the characters in the game (I’d say 75%).

Colin McComb: I hate to say it again, but Chris did the major work on the game. I would estimate that although he had seven designers on his team, he did about 50% of the work on the project. Keep in mind that he did all this while he was working on Fallout 2 as well. The man is truly prolific.

 

[Chris Avelltwo]

The determining factor in how long it takes someone to complete T:ToN is the speed at which they read. T:ToN doesn't rely on combat for its "gameplay", because there is no gameplay whatsoever.

 

[Iznaliu]

This is one of the great benefit of the Tidal alignment system. It allows us to approach the question, "What does one life matter?" through various philosophical lenses, depending on the emphasis. If, for instance, the life you describe is yours, then it's a primarily existentialist matter. But perhaps you're weighing one life against many, and then it becomes a utilitarian answer. Or maybe you want to approach the question through a dialectical framework, weighing how much a single person can affect. Part of the approach with the Meres was phenomenological, placing the PC into the position of both an observer and an actor. We get into mind-body dualism at the same time. But this is all in service to exploring the central questions of legacy and abandonment, and how each of us struggles to find meaning in our own lives. It's not so much a specific philosophy we adhere to, as it is opening different approaches to address those questions.

This all turned out to be bullshit in the end

The Bloom, a densely packed area (kinda like Kowloon Walled City)

As of we needed more proof that InXile are creative thieves

Torment is pretty unusual, and it's hard to quantify the space in which the game is set. For example, Sagus Cliffs and the Bloom are right next to each other - within a radius of a few miles, probably - but from inside the Bloom, the player will travel to other worlds that might be halfway across the universe. Other parts of the game take place in a labyrinth that exists inside the shared consciousness of all the castoffs.

i.e. it's pretty small.

 

[Chris Avelltwo]

i.e. it's pretty small.

Yeah, tiny rooms are still tiny rooms - even if it is implied that there are vast distances between those rooms. Maybe you're traveling millions of light years but you don't actually see any of that, and the travel is instantaneous, so it doesn't make the playable/interactable game any larger. POE on the other hand was set entirely within the Dyrwood, but there was a lot more to visit and do within that region. Its the difference between flying over a country thousands of feet in the air and only seeing it through a window, versus hiking across that country on foot and experiencing it up close and personal.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

This is like a hatred circle jerk in here.

 

[Lilura]

There was a vid linked somewhere in this thread where InXile showed all the accolades they got from the media. Anyone got the link?

 

[80Maxwell08]

So do we get an email when they ship stuff out or does it just pop up one day? I still haven't gotten a word for any of my 3 pledges.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

You should get an e-mail with your tracking number from a shipping company. I already got my CE box, lets just say it's not really something to write home about.

What do you mean, three pledges?

 

[Robespierre]

So do we get an email when they ship stuff out or does it just pop up one day? I still haven't gotten a word for any of my 3 pledges.

Did you pledge NumaNuma, Wasteland 3 and Bard's Tale IV? If that's so, how much I pity you...

Regarding InXile's refund system, does it work well?

 

[hexer]

There was a vid linked somewhere in this thread where InXile showed all the accolades they got from the media. Anyone got the link?

Here it is!

 

[80Maxwell08]

You should get an e-mail with your tracking number from a shipping company. I already got my CE box, lets just say it's not really something to write home about.

What do you mean, three pledges?

Did you pledge NumaNuma, Wasteland 3 and Bard's Tale IV? If that's so, how much I pity you...

Regarding InXile's refund system, does it work well?

Remember that $635 number I brought up earlier? 95 was the original pledge on kickstarter, 490-495 was getting the signed box through their website and the remainder was getting a box set of the books (I got the books before the signed set).
EDIT: Also, yes I'm a fucking idiot. I'm not going to argue that at all.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Ouch. Anyway, I think in one of the last updates they wrote that the signed boxes will take a little longer to ship.

 

[Robespierre]

Remember that $635 number I brought up earlier? 95 was the original pledge on kickstarter, 490-495 was getting the signed box through their website and the remainder was getting a box set of the books (I got the books before the signed set).
EDIT: Also, yes I'm a fucking idiot. I'm not going to argue that at all.

Ouch. Anyway, I think in one of the last updates they wrote that the signed boxes will take a little longer to ship.

TalesfromtheCrypt is right.

Here is the update in question :

https://inxile.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...e-backer-physical-goods-for-Torment-shipping-

 

[Turjan]

I finally finished this yesterday after a few longer breaks due to RL. As I enjoy reading, I found most of the game experience enjoyable, but the game has a few major drawbacks that are hard to gloss over, even if you like it in general. And then there is the ending .

Things I liked:

• The overall world. Yes, most of the description is not tied into the actual story itself, but I don't mind this. All these little quests that are not tied to the main plot help you define the world and your character's place in it somehow.
  
• My favorite areas are the Underbelly (those Foremen have more character than any human being in Sagus Cliffs) and the Bloom.
• The meres. Most (though not all) were quite nice, some of them even had some influence on the world.

Things I found not so great:

• Your party members. Why again did they slog along with you? Okay, with Rhin and Erritis (both had no decision of their own), this was clear. With Matkina, they probably wanted to go the "cruel assassin that was caught by regret" angle, but it seemed somehow half-assed. With Callistege (pure curiosity?), Aligern (answers for the Enless War?) and Tybir (eh, you did some stupid quest for him?) the reasons get even muddier, especially as they generally don't seem to have strong opinions on anything that relates to you. There is no intrinsic mechanism that has you make people dependent on you like in KotOR2, either (altough there is the Tides mechanics, see endings). And the inane banter... the less said about this, the better. Also, Rhin is a lovable character and a terrible plot device at the same time (she is useless for much of the game and you lose her when she gets useful if you don't play an asshole).
  
• Itemization. The available weapons were few and often not really useful, but this may change on another playthrough, if I ever do one. The cyphers saw only rare use. I found only a few bounded items (how were they "bounded" anyway?) useful. You can actually make useless characters in this game (I dropped the ball with Aligern).
• The sound design. Why this siren when a crisis starts, or that loud noise when you enter a conversation screen?

Things I strongly disliked:

• The UI. Oh god, this jumping between screens to look what your character can utilize. The inventory itself is the worst one I have seen in any game in a long time. What an abomination. I'm not a fan of these overly ornate name tags that stack on top of each other and the equally ornate circles at the feet of chars, either.
  
• The ending. I still have to play ME3, but that game certainly came to my mind when I finally stood there in the last scene. This deserves some separate thoughts, because this is what mostly soured the game for me.

Spoiler

The ending had me ask myself for what purpose I actually played this game. First you talk the Changing God out of existence with a few lame words. I kid you not. Then you meet the Sorrow and you have basically six choices:

• One of these endings meant to let the Sorrow win, and we could have just had heartily embraced it before instead of putting all the effort in to get here.
  
• Then there is the ending to leave everything as is... procrastination for the win. If anyone wanted to make a series out of this game, this is the way to go. Though this sounds like a major letdown, it's actually one of the least sucky solutions.
  
• The third ending is basically the First Castoff's solution (why didn't we join her in the first place?): You kill the Sorrow, save all castoffs and... turn all "normal" people insane. Why? ... because of reasons (OK, admittedly you can only kill the Sorrow by abusing the Tides, but still...)! The Sorrow isn't really a saintly guardian, either, given it has destroyed civilizations. You know, all castoffs abuse the Tides (these cute little colors the game generally doesn't care for). And this is where it gets sucky, because the game lets you go out of your way to not abuse the tides. However, this is invalidated here by the Sorrow, because "even if you don't want it, you hurt people". Sigh. The example given is the near saintly castoff in Miel Avest, Aadiriis, who allegedly still hurts people. I wanted to answer "citation needed", but the game didn't let me. I have to take the word of the Sorrow for this. Sure, this stupid ending proves the Sorrow right when you make this choice, but is there any ingame reason to believe her? Tol Maguur? Nobody around my character ever complained about anything similar. Everyone hurts people somettimes in their lives, but that has nothing to do with "abusing the tides". Of course, this ending also means that the First Castoff and her ambitions stay alive, but why would she continue the Endless War with the Changing God gone? Also, the ending slides conveniently forget about all people going insane. This ending is just stupid.
• The last three endings are basically the Changing God's, which is merging all castoffs into one. Well, it's not quite the Changing God's solution, as his endless life cycles come to an end , but that is an extrinsicality that only matters to the Sorrow, not to your character or any of the other castoffs. Two of these solutions make you merge all castoffs into either the Changing God's daughter, which you have no reason to overly care for (at least not over yourself) or Matkina, which is equally pointless (was there a reason to fall for her that much that you would favor her life over your own?). So this means merging every castoff into yourself. Great. So you basically have to betray Matkina and the other castoffs that believed you that you would not choose the Changing God's solution. Also, as it's never really clear whether you are the Changing God or not, there is no real incentive for you to take responsibility for any of the Changing God's deeds, and at least I did see no reason why my character should be morally obliged to be at the receiving end of some punishment. The characters of the different castoffs were too different to actually paint them as different facets of the same individual, so this goes out of the window. Also, the words whith which you convinced the Changing God that he actually is not the Changing God are equally true for you (it's strongly hinted at that you are the CG in the last mere, but the touch of the Sorrow prevented you from remembering, and the indecision over this point prevents you from caring). So why would I care again? If you then choose to merge all castoffs into your own memory, you get the option to leave all the minds flow freely into yourself (and earn a few blue points) instead of suppressing them, but the game even takes this away from you and makes it clear that all the other castoffs are truly gone now. Wonderful.

So, no matter what you choose in the end, the ending sucks, and pretty much all endings, except the one where you do exactly nothing, invalidate the game itself. There is no insight the game gave you that somehow makes the endings feel less "deus ex machina"-like.

I nevertheless still liked the game, but the endings are really hard to stomach. And someone please fix that horrible UI.

 

[Roguey]

Why this siren when a crisis starts, or that loud noise when you enter a conversation screen?

Given Wasteland 2, this seems to be a Fargo thing.

I remember when Wasteland 2 battles started with an animation of glass getting shot every time. Thankfully the final version was far quicker.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I remember when Wasteland 2 battles started with an animation of glass getting shot every time.

Yeah, Fargo thinks he's directing an Arnold Schwarzenegger action movie every time there's a fight in a game.

 

[Chris Avelltwo]

The impossible has happened! I just noticed the steam score went up from 66% to 67%! Are the tides turning? Perhaps it was the recent patch. Can the game climb back to at least 70% and get out of "mixed"? Just a few more points will make a huge difference in how potential customers will perceive the game when they look at the steam store page. If this doesn't happen before then, it probably will when they come out with the update that restores the cut content.

I don't foresee the game becoming a big success in any circumstance, but maybe... just maybe... InXile can manage to at least break even on it, and then Fargo won't be forced into an early retirement.

 

[Iznaliu]

Fargo won't be forced into an early retirement

Fargo will retire anyway as he dosen't want to be branded as a flip-flopper.

 

[Pirata Alma Negra]

The impossible has happened! I just noticed the steam score went up from 66% to 67%! Are the tides turning? Perhaps it was the recent patch. Can the game climb back to at least 70% and get out of "mixed"? Just a few more points will make a huge difference in how potential customers will perceive the game when they look at the steam store page. If this doesn't happen before then, it probably will when they come out with the update that restores the cut content.

I don't foresee the game becoming a big success in any circumstance, but maybe... just maybe... InXile can manage to at least break even on it, and then Fargo won't be forced into an early retirement.

Won't gonna happen, after the initial positive wave the decline tendency is just downhill. It already put the reviews with KS at mixed too and it will only diluted them more and more.

 

[Cromwell]

The determining factor in how long it takes someone to complete T:ToN is the speed at which they read. T:ToN doesn't rely on combat for its "gameplay", because there is no gameplay whatsoever.

This tweet only speaks to the densness of Fargo.

 

[shlock]

Today I got my boxed copy.

WTF, guys. This box is a loveless piece of shit and I waited for it for four fucking years. The Wasteland boxed copy looks way better. TORMENT IS JUST A FUCKING BLACK BOX. They didn't even put a logo on the side and there are no pictures and texts on the back of it. Now when I put it in the shelf it's just a fucking black box.
Did they run of money because of the consol version? I'm disgusted. What about something like a note or a "thank you for backing us"? Jesus, you just can't do it that way.

 

[Darth Roxor]

TORMENT IS JUST A FUCKING BLACK BOX.

How very meta

 

[FeelTheRads]

W2 lunchbox edition was crap. The regular box was OK.
The CE of Numanuma is... meh. It's fucking YUGE which is a bonus point, but it looks completely unremarkable.