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Total War Saga: Troy - now on Steam

Dwarvophile

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
1,449
I enjoy this game, especially the truth behind myths, and the fact that I got it for free, but my first two campaigns with Agamemnon and Hector on Hard dif were too easy. I started another campaign with Achilles and he has some fun campaign map systems but now they seem to be bugged : hot blooded Achilles stays stuck on Indignant and now his disciplinarian talent, which hould give him replenishment while raiding isn't working.

A lot of good work has been put in this game, it's like they rethought what a TW game should be, streamlined but in a good way and improved many aspects, but it seems that it's been left unpolished.
 
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Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,021
Pathfinder: Wrath
Very hard campaign and hard battles works for me for now even with Sarpedon who has one of the easiest starts atm due to Memnon taking care of his most pressing enemy. As for Achilles, that bug was fixed quite a while ago, I think in the first major patch actually. Are you sure you aren't keeping him in settlements? That's what causes him to stay indignant (not a bug).
 

Dwarvophile

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
1,449
Very hard campaign and hard battles works for me for now even with Sarpedon who has the easiest start atm due to Memnon taking care of his most pressing enemy. As for Achilles, that bug was fixed quite a while ago, I think in the first major patch actually. Are you sure you aren't keeping him in settlements? That's what causes him to stay indignant (not a big).

No I'm not, but I found a way toi reset his mood by sending him to confront champions and leaving him in the recruitment pool for a couple of turns before recruiting him again.

It's more the bugged Disciplinarian talent that bothers me because it's the kind of talent that could make gameplay special with this FL. Replenishing while raiding would be awesome for his aggressive playstyle.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,021
Pathfinder: Wrath
You can report both as bugs on the Total War Discord. As far as I know, they still have a few devs fixing bugs and stuff.
 

Sarathiour

Cipher
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
3,264
I enjoy this game, especially the truth behind myths, and the fact that I got it for free, but my first two campaigns with Agamemnon and Hector on Hard dif were too easy. I started another campaign with Achilles and he has some fun campaign map systems but now they seem to be bugged : hot blooded Achilles stays stuck on Indignant and now his disciplinarian talent, which hould give him replenishment while raiding isn't working.

A lot of good work has been put in this game, it's like they rethought what a TW game should be, streamlined but in a good way and improved many aspects, but it seems that it's been left unpolished.

Wait it's still bugged ? I grabbed it for free and only tested Achille a bit last year, and came upon the same shit.

Still not fixed then ?
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,021
Pathfinder: Wrath
Casual reminder that this is still better than WH3 and the joke that is Immortal Empires. It's tragic that it died so early.
 
Self-Ejected

underground nymph

I care not!
Patron
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
1,252
Strap Yourselves In
I find Lacry’s shilling for this byproduct of the Total War franchise amusing. He is like that handsome yet already senile grandpa who never misses a chance to tell his best story of a days long gone that everybody have heard on countless occasions yet feel obliged to fake some sort of an emotional response to each time it’s being told.
:hug:
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,021
Pathfinder: Wrath
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The senile grandpa's story leads to pure gold in this case. Maybe I'm the only one who finds Total Warhammer extremely lacking and that's why nobody is listening to me that this game is actually good. Not only is it good, it's indescribably better than that bloated and incoherent abortion.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,021
Pathfinder: Wrath

Of Shithammer and Rome 2. What is fundamentally different in Troy?
How the fundamentals of WH and Rome 2 are used. You kind of have to be more specific because basically everything is used in a more intelligent and coherent way with the exception of how difficulty settings work.
 

tabacila

Augur
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
326
Casual reminder that this is still better than WH3 and the joke that is Immortal Empires. It's tragic that it died so early.
That may be so, but I'm having a shitload more fun in a broken IE then I could ever have in Troy.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,021
Pathfinder: Wrath
Casual reminder that this is still better than WH3 and the joke that is Immortal Empires. It's tragic that it died so early.
That may be so, but I'm having a shitload more fun in a broken IE then I could ever have in Troy.
That's all well and good, but I'd like to know why. People keep saying Troy is bad or boring, or derivative, or whatever, but nobody explains why they think that is.
 

BlackAdderBG

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
3,081
Location
Little Vienna
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Of Shithammer and Rome 2. What is fundamentally different in Troy?
How the fundamentals of WH and Rome 2 are used. You kind of have to be more specific because basically everything is used in a more intelligent and coherent way with the exception of how difficulty settings work.

Specifically the Heroes-same as WH, how armies are formed and recruited-same since R2, research- same retarded WH threes, regions- same since R2, buildings- same shit, even the pray mechanic is not so different than in WH (spent resources to get temp buffs) etc. Is there any major mechanic in the game that is not derivative from the Shithammer and Rome2 ? Diplomacy maybe, even that is derivative from Three Kingdoms.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,021
Pathfinder: Wrath

Specifically the Heroes-same as WH, how armies are formed and recruited-same since R2, research- same retarded WH threes, regions- same since R2, buildings- same shit, even the pray mechanic is not so different than in WH (spent resources to get temp buffs) etc. Is there any major mechanic in the game that is not derivative from the Shithammer and Rome2 ? Diplomacy maybe, even that is derivative from Three Kingdoms.
The resources for one. That changes the admittedly dumb provinces into a non-arbitrary feature. Caps for myth units is another very reasonable addition. Outside of those, yeah, it's a contemporary Total War, but the awful stuff has been recontextualized and re-balanced to make at least some sense and be connected to how the game actually plays, as opposed to the random useless and undercooked mechanics of the vast majority of WH's roster.

1. Heroes - yes, they are overpowered and single entities outside of historical mode (they have bodyguards in that). They aren't as overpowered as in WH, though, but if this is what ruins the whole game for you, try historical mode.

2. I don't know what you mean by armies being formed and recruited like in R2. They are recruited much the same way as in Rome 1 and Shogun 2. Unless you mean that they have to be accompanied and recruited by a general? Yeah, that's a thing because the engine is shit. CA forced this in Rome 2 in order to sidestep a bug which could be exploited for infinite movement on the campaign map. This is not related to game design as much as how shit the engine is.

3. The research trees exist but are relevant to how the game actually plays, as opposed to WH's monstrously big but useless ones. If the mere existence of tech trees ruins it for you, I'd say it's a you problem, but it depends on what exactly you don't like about them. However, they could indeed be better, but it's a tough balancing act. Shogun 2 has the most "interesting" tech trees, but the civil side of them paled in comparison to the military one, so everyone went the same route every time.

4. The pray/gods mechanic - the difference in Troy is that they are quite important in order to do well. They are also intimately intertwined with what you do with your building slots. You need to build temples to get high favor with a specific god. They also grant you magic on the battlefield and powerful unique agents. It is done very well actually and it's definitely not a negative.

My point is that it's a contemporary Total War that is done well and makes sense. The battles are the best since Shogun 2 and Rome 1, the unit variety is surprisingly high and there are more relevant campaign mechanics than in any other contemporary TW. Could it have been better? Yes, but bitching about stuff for merely existing without taking into account how they exist and in what context is myopic at best.
 
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tabacila

Augur
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
326
Casual reminder that this is still better than WH3 and the joke that is Immortal Empires. It's tragic that it died so early.
That may be so, but I'm having a shitload more fun in a broken IE then I could ever have in Troy.
That's all well and good, but I'd like to know why. People keep saying Troy is bad or boring, or derivative, or whatever, but nobody explains why they think that is.
Honestly for me it pretty much comes down to the setting.

As I've grown up and older the TW formula seems to have become more and more ... streamlined? The restrictive building slots, the armies limited to generals, the 3D map that basically has restrictive lanes between the settlements.
Warhammer seems to fit perfectly with nuTW imo. It's over the top and stupid and fun and works for me. So much so that I can forgive the shallowness of some of its gameplay.

Troy on the other hand doesn't do it for me. I can acknowledge its improvements, and I really want to see more of that in the future for TW. For example I love the multiple resources things (would have loved to see that in WH). The Amazon recruitment system is pretty much what they did for the WoC update in WH. I really hope the Bulgaria team ends up working on some DLC for WH.

I admit some ill will was born when they announced it as a FREE Epic exclusive. That shit screams shovelware. But in the end the setting and how they approached it, especially with the 3 different (all lackluster) modes, just falls flat for me. Bronze age warfare isn't something that I feel is massively tactically interesting, despite CA's attempts at 'diversity' on Troy's battlefield.

Bottom line is I like WH more because it's so stupidly over the top it actually elevates CA's work.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,155
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I don't even like Warhammer that much because they made the battle mechanics so arcadey. Total War is supposed to be simulationist. The more they reduce the simulationism of the battles, the less I like it.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,021
Pathfinder: Wrath
Troy is the least spreadsheet-y of all the contemporary TWs. It still isn't as simulationist as Rome 1 of course, but it's still more than the rest of this garbage franchise nowadays.
 

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