Traditional vs. weird settings

[RaggleFraggle]

Pulp fiction. You’re describing pulp fiction. And also weird fiction. Yes, it has been hugely overshadowed by Tolkien ripoffs for decades now. But it totally deserves a revival.

We could also do with more Americana fantasy, like Wizard of Oz and space westerns.

 

[Serus]

You should read Clark Ashton Smith if you haven't yet, he's basically weirder REH in his sword & sorcery stories.

Ok, this is a very good recommendation, I intend to.
Some later authors also did that. There are some weird s**t in sword & sorcery themed books of, say, Moorcock, Karl E. Wagner and others. Those authors were less shy of mixing fantasy with sf and weird and didn't just ape Tolkien. In general I like more heroic fantasy and weird than Tolkien's ripoffs.

 

[JarlFrank]

But it totally deserves a revival.

What if I told you it already has one?

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...enture-books-inspired-by-the-classics.147321/

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

...R. E. Howard's Conan stories which sometimes featured space aliens or Lovecraftian horrors, etc.

REH's Conan had "space aliens"? Where? Lovercrafts influences on REH are well known (to nerds :D) but aliens?

Edit: I realized that you meant the other authors. Borroughs certainly has aliens. Very disappointed. I want Howard to be resurrected and write "Conan vs space aliens".
Edit 2: REH's Conan could be considered "traditional fantasy" these days. Just not Tolkienesque fantasy. Isn't that weird either to be honest. The weirdest thing i recall were those "black" giant humanoid beings in some island on the ocean, can't remember the name of the story. Most of his short stories with Conan are fantastic though.
Edit 3: Your point stands, REH is the only one well known by pop culture of today.

"The Tower of the Elephant" was the fourth Conan story written (two of the earlier three went unpublished), and in the next story "The Scarlet Citadel" Robert E. Howard had Conan encounter an eldritch abomination:

“Oh man, listen,” said the strange being. “I am foul and monstrous to you, am I not? Nay, do not answer; I know. But you would seem as strange to me, could I see you. There are many worlds besides this earth, and life takes many shapes. I am neither god nor demon, but flesh and blood like yourself, though the substance differ in part, and the form be cast in different mold.

“I am very old, oh man of the waste countries; long and long ago I came to this planet with others of my world, from the green planet Yag, which circles for ever in the outer fringe of this universe. We swept through space on mighty wings that drove us through the cosmos quicker than light, because we had warred with the kings of Yag and were defeated and outcast. But we could never return, for on earth our wings withered from our shoulders. Here we abode apart from earthly life. We fought the strange and terrible forms of life which then walked the earth, so that we became feared, and were not molested in the dim jungles of the east, where we had our abode.

The weeping grew nearer as he advanced, and lifting his torch he made out a vague shape in the shadows. Stepping closer, he halted in sudden horror at the amorphic bulk which sprawled before him. Its unstable outlines somewhat suggested an octopus, but its malformed tentacles were too short for its size, and its substance was a quaking, jelly-like stuff which made him physically sick to look at. From among this loathsome gelid mass reared up a frog-like head, and he was frozen with nauseated horror to realize that the sound of weeping was coming from those obscene blubbery lips. The noise changed to an abominable high-pitched tittering as the great unstable eyes of the monstrosity rested on him, and it hitched its quaking bulk toward him. He backed away and fled up the tunnel, not trusting his sword. The creature might be composed of terrestrial matter, but it shook his very soul to look upon it, and he doubted the power of man-made weapons to harm it. For a short distance he heard it flopping and floundering after him, screaming with horrible laughter. The unmistakably human note in its mirth almost staggered his reason. It was exactly such laughter as he had heard bubble obscenely from the fat lips of the salacious women of Shadizar, City of Wickedness, when captive girls were stripped naked on the public auction block. By what hellish arts had Tsotha brought this unnatural being into life? Conan felt vaguely that he had looked on blasphemy against the eternal laws of nature.

 

[std::namespace]

vanilla vs futa

 

[AfterVirtue]

But it totally deserves a revival.

But why? I think the problem would be one of quality, anyway. Tolkien had quality writing and themes, like it or not. This would only cause "weird-rippoffs". I don't think that a Leiber ripoff overdose, if it is even possible, would be much better than a Tolkien ripoff. Just like Lovecraft ripoffs overdose, a.k.a. Day of the Tentacle. Hi everyone, by the way.

 

[Spike]

Christian RPG? Is that even possible? A tbt story driven Christian game where you are trying to get as many as possible to follow Jesus Christ? Funny it hasn’t seem to be done as biblically, Super Bookish, etc as possible. Technically, if not rushed it could be a serial rpg of sorts from even before the Garden to the very end. It’d have to take a few creative liberties though if a party goes through the entire thing. But this would be rushed trash more than likely as feathers would be ruffled etc. and then other religions might want their episodic game as well.

Turbo based idea, but I am thinking if you are going to want to make a Christian/Catholic-appealing video game, you go full Catholic mysticism in the middle ages. So my dream game if I make it ever will be like a classic (maybe open world or open field) action-adventure type game (MAYBE RPG, unsure) where you are a knight learning about and gaining virtues. It actually would be similar to Ultima. You would fight demons and figures from European folklore (chimaera) because it would be in the middle ages. And the game would subtly teach about the Church's view of virtues through fantastic combat, battles, dialogues, and character interactions (NOT in a fruitcake modern-gaming way though). In this game there is no character choice to be an edgy tryhard. You are explicitly learning how to be a paladin basically, because morality is concrete and not relative despite what the communists who have infiltrated this country would have you believe (and the free masons). The game WOULD deal with choice and consequence and moral nuance, but murder hobo-ing is not allowed. It would be an exploration from our limited human gaze of "what is the ideal/best moral way to treat this given scenario?" And explore what it really means to be a knight in title and deed. Very heavily Arthurian as well. Very medieval European aesthetic, proudly. Maidens to rescue or ignore for their salaciousness, etc (or maybe you rescue them any way but then give them the boot for suggesting things unholy). And based on your choices you may invite demonic influences toward you. I have a lot of ideas. But the base thing is teaching Aquinas through actually enjoyable, engaging "normal" video gamery with combat against knights, creatures, demons, exploring sprawling levels, taking on quests...Etc. All in C++. Maybe. But the combat must be action-based so normies play it and learn about virtue without realizing it, so they think twice before hooking up with a clueless woman in college and spread AIDS or kill a baby and then vote Democrat so they don't have to face their own moral failures.

Darklands but with strong Christian themes then?

Basically but 3D and big on action-based combat. Though much more to do than just fight. Also mythical creatures and demons you fight.

 

[Serus]

...R. E. Howard's Conan stories which sometimes featured space aliens or Lovecraftian horrors, etc.

REH's Conan had "space aliens"? Where? Lovercrafts influences on REH are well known (to nerds :D) but aliens?

Edit: I realized that you meant the other authors. Borroughs certainly has aliens. Very disappointed. I want Howard to be resurrected and write "Conan vs space aliens".
Edit 2: REH's Conan could be considered "traditional fantasy" these days. Just not Tolkienesque fantasy. Isn't that weird either to be honest. The weirdest thing i recall were those "black" giant humanoid beings in some island on the ocean, can't remember the name of the story. Most of his short stories with Conan are fantastic though.
Edit 3: Your point stands, REH is the only one well known by pop culture of today.

"The Tower of the Elephant" was the fourth Conan story written (two of the earlier three went unpublished), and in the next story "The Scarlet Citadel" Robert E. Howard had Conan encounter an eldritch abomination:

“Oh man, listen,” said the strange being. “I am foul and monstrous to you, am I not? Nay, do not answer; I know. But you would seem as strange to me, could I see you. There are many worlds besides this earth, and life takes many shapes. I am neither god nor demon, but flesh and blood like yourself, though the substance differ in part, and the form be cast in different mold.

“I am very old, oh man of the waste countries; long and long ago I came to this planet with others of my world, from the green planet Yag, which circles for ever in the outer fringe of this universe. We swept through space on mighty wings that drove us through the cosmos quicker than light, because we had warred with the kings of Yag and were defeated and outcast. But we could never return, for on earth our wings withered from our shoulders. Here we abode apart from earthly life. We fought the strange and terrible forms of life which then walked the earth, so that we became feared, and were not molested in the dim jungles of the east, where we had our abode.

The weeping grew nearer as he advanced, and lifting his torch he made out a vague shape in the shadows. Stepping closer, he halted in sudden horror at the amorphic bulk which sprawled before him. Its unstable outlines somewhat suggested an octopus, but its malformed tentacles were too short for its size, and its substance was a quaking, jelly-like stuff which made him physically sick to look at. From among this loathsome gelid mass reared up a frog-like head, and he was frozen with nauseated horror to realize that the sound of weeping was coming from those obscene blubbery lips. The noise changed to an abominable high-pitched tittering as the great unstable eyes of the monstrosity rested on him, and it hitched its quaking bulk toward him. He backed away and fled up the tunnel, not trusting his sword. The creature might be composed of terrestrial matter, but it shook his very soul to look upon it, and he doubted the power of man-made weapons to harm it. For a short distance he heard it flopping and floundering after him, screaming with horrible laughter. The unmistakably human note in its mirth almost staggered his reason. It was exactly such laughter as he had heard bubble obscenely from the fat lips of the salacious women of Shadizar, City of Wickedness, when captive girls were stripped naked on the public auction block. By what hellish arts had Tsotha brought this unnatural being into life? Conan felt vaguely that he had looked on blasphemy against the eternal laws of nature.

The one from "Scarlett Citadel" is another hommage to Lovercraft of curse but it's not alien as in "outer space alien". The one from "The Tower" technically is one. I remembered it wrong which means i'm truly sclerotic because I've read all short stories several times. Neither "alien" however is a typical SF-ey alien. Those are horror or mystical beings. That's what I, half-jokingly, meant by "Conan vs aliens". There are no such things, Howard didn't mix proper, non-horror, non-Lovercraft SF with Conan. For better or worse.

 

[Elthosian]

Weird every time, don’t need to play in the same world countless times. Time is too limited to be spent like that.

 

[AfterVirtue]

Weird every time, don’t need to play in the same world countless times. Time is too limited to be spent like that.

But wouldn't this be "the same world contless times", unless made with Vance-like quality. Weird for weird's sake would just taste like weird flavored slop, on a good day. That's fine, i guess, if that is your taste, just not a matter of quality (banal fantasy vs interesting weird).

But wouldn't this be "the same world countless times", unless made with Vance-like quality? Weird for weird sake would just taste like weird flavored slop, on a good day. That's fine, i guess, if that is to your taste, just it isn't a matter of quality (boring fantasy vs interesting weird.)

Case in point, from another thread

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...g-now-available-on-early-access.139515/page-4

I don't think the author is mentally ill, he just attributes the success of games like Morrowind and Legacy of Kain to the weirdness of the setting. More weird equals more success.

 

[NecroLord]

I would like a setting that combines both Magic and Technology, or Supernatural Elements like demons, evil rituals and sorcerers with high technology, robots, cyborgs, AI. The kind of intimidating cyborgs, an unholy union between flesh and lifeless metal which, while enhancing the physique and capabilities of the cyborg, it also deeply affects his psyche and can lead to mental degradation and insanity.
Stuff like this...

 

[Iucounu]

I would like a setting that combines both Magic and Technology, or Supernatural Elements like demons, evil rituals and sorcerers with high technology, robots, cyborgs, AI. The kind of intimidating cyborgs, an unholy union between flesh and lifeless metal which, while enhancing the physique and capabilities of the cyborg, it also deeply affects his psyche and can lead to mental degradation and insanity.
Stuff like this...

Mass Effect.

 

[AfterVirtue]

I would like a setting that combines both Magic and Technology, or Supernatural Elements like demons, evil rituals and sorcerers with high technology, robots, cyborgs, AI. The kind of intimidating cyborgs, an unholy union between flesh and lifeless metal which, while enhancing the physique and capabilities of the cyborg, it also deeply affects his psyche and can lead to mental degradation and insanity.
Stuff like this...

I would like a setting that combines both Magic and Technology, or Supernatural Elements like demons, evil rituals and sorcerers with high technology, robots, cyborgs, AI. The kind of intimidating cyborgs, an unholy union between flesh and lifeless metal which, while enhancing the physique and capabilities of the cyborg, it also deeply affects his psyche and can lead to mental degradation and insanity.
Stuff like this...

Mass Effect.

Nah, Mortal Kombat.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I would like a setting that combines both Magic and Technology, or Supernatural Elements like demons, evil rituals and sorcerers with high technology, robots, cyborgs, AI. The kind of intimidating cyborgs, an unholy union between flesh and lifeless metal which, while enhancing the physique and capabilities of the cyborg, it also deeply affects his psyche and can lead to mental degradation and insanity.
Stuff like this...

EYE Divine Cybermancy?

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I would like a setting that combines both Magic and Technology, or Supernatural Elements like demons, evil rituals and sorcerers with high technology, robots, cyborgs, AI.

Sounds like the typical settings for JRPGs.

 

[ropetight]

I would like a setting that combines both Magic and Technology, or Supernatural Elements like demons, evil rituals and sorcerers with high technology, robots, cyborgs, AI.

Sounds like the typical settings for JRPGs.

Those settings can look good on paper, like second coming of Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, and turn so bad you couldn't believe.
Designers and writers often don't know how to put boundaries and rules in such wide range of magic and tech and you get a dish with all the ingredients that you shouldn't mix togehter.

Pitch for game in a such setting could go something like this:

I have a cunning idea.
Let's remake an all-time favorite RPG in the world where science and magic of eight great civilizations is preserved in artefacts that no one knows what they are anymore.
Since science advanced enough is undistiguishable from magic, you have it all - different gameplay systems, classes, diverse loot, sense of wonder and exploration.
Current, ninth, civilization is a postapocalyptic, Dying Earth.
Let's call it Numenera.

 

[Elthosian]

Weird every time, don’t need to play in the same world countless times. Time is too limited to be spent like that.

But wouldn't this be "the same world contless times", unless made with Vance-like quality. Weird for weird's sake would just taste like weird flavored slop, on a good day. That's fine, i guess, if that is your taste, just not a matter of quality (banal fantasy vs interesting weird).

But wouldn't this be "the same world countless times", unless made with Vance-like quality? Weird for weird sake would just taste like weird flavored slop, on a good day. That's fine, i guess, if that is to your taste, just it isn't a matter of quality (boring fantasy vs interesting weird.)

Case in point, from another thread

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...g-now-available-on-early-access.139515/page-4

I don't think the author is mentally ill, he just attributes the success of games like Morrowind and Legacy of Kain to the weirdness of the setting. More weird equals more success.

If I’m already selective about the stuff I play because I don’t have much free time, it’s a given that I won’t skim on quality. It’s a matter of priority over various criteria. Armored Core 6 for instance is a great game with solid mechanics, but Rain World has a much more novel/weird *and* better built setting on top of having superior mechanics and 5 to 10 times the content. As a result, most of my time recently has been spent on the latter. Of course, after I’m done with RW, I’d rather get back to AC6 than play something like Numenera. Weird trash is still trash.

Anyway, it’s a good gotcha if your interlocutor is an edgy fanatic of weird for the sake of weird with no taste, I guess.