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Traditional vs. weird settings

Do you prefer traditional or weird settings?


  • Total voters
    134

Faarbaute

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
826
I just really like the tropes that come with traditional fantasy.

Scifi, cyberpunk, or just weird shit in general can have some appeal as well, but they usually deal with themes that I don't find very interesting, or do so in a really retarded way.
 

VonMiskov

Educated
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
267
Christian RPG? Is that even possible? A tbt story driven Christian game where you are trying to get as many as possible to follow Jesus Christ? Funny it hasn’t seem to be done as biblically, Super Bookish, etc as possible. Technically, if not rushed it could be a serial rpg of sorts from even before the Garden to the very end. It’d have to take a few creative liberties though if a party goes through the entire thing. But this would be rushed trash more than likely as feathers would be ruffled etc. and then other religions might want their episodic game as well.
Turbo based idea, but I am thinking if you are going to want to make a Christian/Catholic-appealing video game, you go full Catholic mysticism in the middle ages. So my dream game if I make it ever will be like a classic (maybe open world or open field) action-adventure type game (MAYBE RPG, unsure) where you are a knight learning about and gaining virtues. It actually would be similar to Ultima. You would fight demons and figures from European folklore (chimaera) because it would be in the middle ages. And the game would subtly teach about the Church's view of virtues through fantastic combat, battles, dialogues, and character interactions (NOT in a fruitcake modern-gaming way though). In this game there is no character choice to be an edgy tryhard. You are explicitly learning how to be a paladin basically, because morality is concrete and not relative despite what the communists who have infiltrated this country would have you believe (and the free masons). The game WOULD deal with choice and consequence and moral nuance, but murder hobo-ing is not allowed. It would be an exploration from our limited human gaze of "what is the ideal/best moral way to treat this given scenario?" And explore what it really means to be a knight in title and deed. Very heavily Arthurian as well. Very medieval European aesthetic, proudly. Maidens to rescue or ignore for their salaciousness, etc (or maybe you rescue them any way but then give them the boot for suggesting things unholy). And based on your choices you may invite demonic influences toward you. I have a lot of ideas. But the base thing is teaching Aquinas through actually enjoyable, engaging "normal" video gamery with combat against knights, creatures, demons, exploring sprawling levels, taking on quests...Etc. All in C++. Maybe. But the combat must be action-based so normies play it and learn about virtue without realizing it, so they think twice before hooking up with a clueless woman in college and spread AIDS or kill a baby and then vote Democrat so they don't have to face their own moral failures.
Plot twist would be that the pope is pedo deviant that delight himself in orgies, most christians are hypocrites that pretend to be virtuous but in reality all goes because you can do penance or buy absolution. Only the first three commandmends matter, the rest well we don't talk about the rest.
 

Spike

Learned
Joined
Apr 6, 2023
Messages
1,031
I just really like the tropes that come with traditional fantasy.

Scifi, cyberpunk, or just weird shit in general can have some appeal as well, but they usually deal with themes that I don't find very interesting, or do so in a really retarded way.
Same here. Agreed.
Christian RPG? Is that even possible? A tbt story driven Christian game where you are trying to get as many as possible to follow Jesus Christ? Funny it hasn’t seem to be done as biblically, Super Bookish, etc as possible. Technically, if not rushed it could be a serial rpg of sorts from even before the Garden to the very end. It’d have to take a few creative liberties though if a party goes through the entire thing. But this would be rushed trash more than likely as feathers would be ruffled etc. and then other religions might want their episodic game as well.
Turbo based idea, but I am thinking if you are going to want to make a Christian/Catholic-appealing video game, you go full Catholic mysticism in the middle ages. So my dream game if I make it ever will be like a classic (maybe open world or open field) action-adventure type game (MAYBE RPG, unsure) where you are a knight learning about and gaining virtues. It actually would be similar to Ultima. You would fight demons and figures from European folklore (chimaera) because it would be in the middle ages. And the game would subtly teach about the Church's view of virtues through fantastic combat, battles, dialogues, and character interactions (NOT in a fruitcake modern-gaming way though). In this game there is no character choice to be an edgy tryhard. You are explicitly learning how to be a paladin basically, because morality is concrete and not relative despite what the communists who have infiltrated this country would have you believe (and the free masons). The game WOULD deal with choice and consequence and moral nuance, but murder hobo-ing is not allowed. It would be an exploration from our limited human gaze of "what is the ideal/best moral way to treat this given scenario?" And explore what it really means to be a knight in title and deed. Very heavily Arthurian as well. Very medieval European aesthetic, proudly. Maidens to rescue or ignore for their salaciousness, etc (or maybe you rescue them any way but then give them the boot for suggesting things unholy). And based on your choices you may invite demonic influences toward you. I have a lot of ideas. But the base thing is teaching Aquinas through actually enjoyable, engaging "normal" video gamery with combat against knights, creatures, demons, exploring sprawling levels, taking on quests...Etc. All in C++. Maybe. But the combat must be action-based so normies play it and learn about virtue without realizing it, so they think twice before hooking up with a clueless woman in college and spread AIDS or kill a baby and then vote Democrat so they don't have to face their own moral failures.
Plot twist would be that the pope is pedo deviant that delight himself in orgies, most christians are hypocrites that pretend to be virtuous but in reality all goes because you can do penance or buy absolution. Only the first three commandmends matter, the rest well we don't talk about the rest.
I am consistent. Sorry you had bad experiences or know hypocrites. Although true virtue is difficult. Ow, the edge. The mistakes or failures to live out the Christian life that you have seen does not mean God is not real or that it is not true. Also, ignoring the latter 7 commandments means one is ignoring the first 3 as well.
 

Iucounu

Scholar
Joined
Jul 4, 2023
Messages
1,028
Christian RPG? Is that even possible? A tbt story driven Christian game where you are trying to get as many as possible to follow Jesus Christ? Funny it hasn’t seem to be done as biblically, Super Bookish, etc as possible. Technically, if not rushed it could be a serial rpg of sorts from even before the Garden to the very end. It’d have to take a few creative liberties though if a party goes through the entire thing. But this would be rushed trash more than likely as feathers would be ruffled etc. and then other religions might want their episodic game as well.
Turbo based idea, but I am thinking if you are going to want to make a Christian/Catholic-appealing video game, you go full Catholic mysticism in the middle ages.
Seems a few video games are inspired by Umberto Eco's novel The Name of the Rose: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Name_of_the_Rose#Games (maybe not its theological content though).
 

RaggleFraggle

Ask me about VTM
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
1,476
:necro:

15 years ago I read this book called "Dead Names: The Dark History of the Necronomicon". It was really less about the Necronomicon and more about the modern occult history of America. Particularly the underground occult scene of New York during the 60s, 70s and 80s. I had no idea that such a time and place existed where intelligence agencies, church denominations, UFO cults, drugs and magick collided. Thinking of it, it could serve as a really cool RPG setting.
There have been several attempts to make ttrpgs about exactly that. Conspiracy X, Bureau 13, Dark•Matter, Necroscope, Nephilim… they all died because they couldn’t compete with Call of Cthulhu or World of Darkness. Nephilim in particular was published by Chaosium and had several easter egg references to Call of Cthulhu and Glorantha, but it still got cancelled.

Ttrpgs are not a growth sector, but suffer the worst instance of first mover advantage I have ever seen in any creative market ever. If you managed to colonize a particular space in the 80s or 90s, then no other game will be able to survive in that genre or any adjacent genre ever again. This leads to a very boring, stagnant, homogeneous market place. Much like current Hollywood. It’s atrocious and I despise it.

You want an interesting game about conspiracies, ufos and the occult? Well, then you’ll have to make it yourself and you’ll only ever be successful if you make it a video game.
 
Last edited:

Skinwalker

*meows at 3AM for no reason*
Patron
Village Idiot
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
12,955
Location
Yessex
I want a traditional setting where humanity randomly evolved out of monkeys to spread across the universe via AI-powered one-world government because they discovered hyper-advanced magictech from an extinct race of ancient aliens, and then the pink-haired black lesbian transwoman in a hijab gloriously defeats the white supermacist Trumphitler.

None of your subversive virtue ethics or novel ideas of chivalry, romance and idealism, plz. Good old-fashioned nihilism, dismemberment and porn is all I will tolerate in any medium. For any ages.
 

9ted6

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Messages
903
I want a traditional setting where humanity randomly evolved out of monkeys to spread across the universe via AI-powered one-world government because they discovered hyper-advanced magictech from an extinct race of ancient aliens, and then the pink-haired black lesbian transwoman in a hijab gloriously defeats the white supermacist Trumphitler.
And everyone clapped.
 

Velut

Novice
Joined
May 30, 2023
Messages
35
I think many of traditional settings nowadays suffer from making all fantasy elements mundane: magic treated like it's nothing, dwarves and elfs are just neighbours on the other side of the road with no real difference from humans culture-vise, e.t.c.. It's no longer a fantasy, it's colored reality. I like how in Arcanum elves have their own way of live, there are only two elven cities and it's really hard to find even halfbreed elves in other palces - they were fantasy, not just humans with pointy ears.
 

NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Sep 6, 2022
Messages
15,383
I think many of traditional settings nowadays suffer from making all fantasy elements mundane: magic treated like it's nothing, dwarves and elfs are just neighbours on the other side of the road with no real difference from humans culture-vise, e.t.c.. It's no longer a fantasy, it's colored reality. I like how in Arcanum elves have their own way of live, there are only two elven cities and it's really hard to find even halfbreed elves in other palces - they were fantasy, not just humans with pointy ears.
Yes.
Keep it Gygax.
Human centered.
Now every fantasy setting has to resemble modern day Canada with gay elf trannies friggin everywhere.
 

Iucounu

Scholar
Joined
Jul 4, 2023
Messages
1,028
I think many of traditional settings nowadays suffer from making all fantasy elements mundane: magic treated like it's nothing, dwarves and elfs are just neighbours on the other side of the road with no real difference from humans culture-vise, e.t.c.. It's no longer a fantasy, it's colored reality. I like how in Arcanum elves have their own way of live, there are only two elven cities and it's really hard to find even halfbreed elves in other palces - they were fantasy, not just humans with pointy ears.
What is the cause of this? Is it that writers are tired of the setting, but management forces them to keep writing about it because it sells?
 

Serus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
6,983
Location
Small but great planet of Potatohole
Christian RPG? Is that even possible? A tbt story driven Christian game where you are trying to get as many as possible to follow Jesus Christ? Funny it hasn’t seem to be done as biblically, Super Bookish, etc as possible. Technically, if not rushed it could be a serial rpg of sorts from even before the Garden to the very end. It’d have to take a few creative liberties though if a party goes through the entire thing. But this would be rushed trash more than likely as feathers would be ruffled etc. and then other religions might want their episodic game as well.
Turbo based idea, but I am thinking if you are going to want to make a Christian/Catholic-appealing video game, you go full Catholic mysticism in the middle ages. So my dream game if I make it ever will be like a classic (maybe open world or open field) action-adventure type game (MAYBE RPG, unsure) where you are a knight learning about and gaining virtues. It actually would be similar to Ultima. You would fight demons and figures from European folklore (chimaera) because it would be in the middle ages. And the game would subtly teach about the Church's view of virtues through fantastic combat, battles, dialogues, and character interactions (NOT in a fruitcake modern-gaming way though). In this game there is no character choice to be an edgy tryhard. You are explicitly learning how to be a paladin basically, because morality is concrete and not relative despite what the communists who have infiltrated this country would have you believe (and the free masons). The game WOULD deal with choice and consequence and moral nuance, but murder hobo-ing is not allowed. It would be an exploration from our limited human gaze of "what is the ideal/best moral way to treat this given scenario?" And explore what it really means to be a knight in title and deed. Very heavily Arthurian as well. Very medieval European aesthetic, proudly. Maidens to rescue or ignore for their salaciousness, etc (or maybe you rescue them any way but then give them the boot for suggesting things unholy). And based on your choices you may invite demonic influences toward you. I have a lot of ideas. But the base thing is teaching Aquinas through actually enjoyable, engaging "normal" video gamery with combat against knights, creatures, demons, exploring sprawling levels, taking on quests...Etc. All in C++. Maybe. But the combat must be action-based so normies play it and learn about virtue without realizing it, so they think twice before hooking up with a clueless woman in college and spread AIDS or kill a baby and then vote Democrat so they don't have to face their own moral failures.
Darklands but with strong Christian themes then?
 

Serus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
6,983
Location
Small but great planet of Potatohole
I think many of traditional settings nowadays suffer from making all fantasy elements mundane: magic treated like it's nothing, dwarves and elfs are just neighbours on the other side of the road with no real difference from humans culture-vise, e.t.c.. It's no longer a fantasy, it's colored reality. I like how in Arcanum elves have their own way of live, there are only two elven cities and it's really hard to find even halfbreed elves in other palces - they were fantasy, not just humans with pointy ears.
Yes.
Keep it Gygax.
Human centered.
Now every fantasy setting has to resemble modern day Canada with gay elf trannies friggin everywhere.
Actually a non/anti-human centered game could be weird in good way. There was one, (a tactical rpg?) You played only orcs, trolls and the like, large party (10?) forgot the name. And another with Dwarfs, that one was mediocre. It could be done better and as an idea for weird setting that is not the worst one. In such game humans should be the legendary creatures who live in weird, magic places called "cities" and "towns".
 

Velut

Novice
Joined
May 30, 2023
Messages
35
I think many of traditional settings nowadays suffer from making all fantasy elements mundane: magic treated like it's nothing, dwarves and elfs are just neighbours on the other side of the road with no real difference from humans culture-vise, e.t.c.. It's no longer a fantasy, it's colored reality. I like how in Arcanum elves have their own way of live, there are only two elven cities and it's really hard to find even halfbreed elves in other palces - they were fantasy, not just humans with pointy ears.
What is the cause of this? Is it that writers are tired of the setting, but management forces them to keep writing about it because it sells?
Even if they are forced to use classic fantasy elements all the time, it's hardly the biggest issue. If they work with established tropes and still can't get the job done, how can they be trusted to do something new? Human with horns or blue skin will be the extend of their imagination.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Gamma World, Tekumel, Metamorphosis Alpha, Perihelion, Oaxaca, Hylics, Kenshi, etc.

You can say that Gamma World and Metamorphosis Alpha are examples of how "weird colonizes the traditional", but I have no idea what the others are.
I'd make the claim that the "weird" is more traditional than the "traditional"!

Most pre-Tolkien fantasy are nowadays considered weird, while post-Tolkien fantasy is what's considered traditional.
The space fantasy of Edgar Rice Borroughs, the weird future Earth of Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique, R. E. Howard's Conan stories which sometimes featured space aliens or Lovecraftian horrors, etc.

In fact, the so-called "Weird Fiction" is much older than high fantasy!
Weird is the REAL traditional!
 

S.torch

Liturgist
Joined
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Messages
1,135
Except for the fact that Tolkien, Lovecraft and Howard lived all in the same time and wrote their works parallel to each other. So your claim that one is more traditional than the other is shady at best.
 

9ted6

Educated
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Messages
903
I think many of traditional settings nowadays suffer from making all fantasy elements mundane: magic treated like it's nothing, dwarves and elfs are just neighbours on the other side of the road with no real difference from humans culture-vise, e.t.c.. It's no longer a fantasy, it's colored reality. I like how in Arcanum elves have their own way of live, there are only two elven cities and it's really hard to find even halfbreed elves in other palces - they were fantasy, not just humans with pointy ears.
Absolutely right. Something I like about Dragon Age Origins is how it managed to feel traditional while still being dark and doing things differently.

You still had the dying race of honorable dwarves but they weren't Scottish alcoholics and were instead shrewd merchants with a caste system and backstabbing politics. The elves were an ancient race reduced to slavery and irrelevance because they fought and lost against the setting's Roman Empire. You had mages but magic was rare, dangerous and universally feared. It was dark fantasy but with a traditional tone instead of deconstructionist like Warhammer or Witcher.

It wasn't a totally unique setting but it avoided the DND pitfall of having all the fantasy stuff be completely mundane while still feeling like a traditional fantasy world.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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Gamma World, Tekumel, Metamorphosis Alpha, Perihelion, Oaxaca, Hylics, Kenshi, etc.

You can say that Gamma World and Metamorphosis Alpha are examples of how "weird colonizes the traditional", but I have no idea what the others are.
I'd make the claim that the "weird" is more traditional than the "traditional"!

Most pre-Tolkien fantasy are nowadays considered weird, while post-Tolkien fantasy is what's considered traditional.
The space fantasy of Edgar Rice Borroughs, the weird future Earth of Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique, R. E. Howard's Conan stories which sometimes featured space aliens or Lovecraftian horrors, etc.

In fact, the so-called "Weird Fiction" is much older than high fantasy!
Weird is the REAL traditional!

very interesting
 

Iucounu

Scholar
Joined
Jul 4, 2023
Messages
1,028
Most pre-Tolkien fantasy are nowadays considered weird, while post-Tolkien fantasy is what's considered traditional.
I suppose it also makes older folklore weird in the eyes of today's audience, that may only know it through Disney and The Witcher.

The space fantasy of Edgar Rice Borroughs, the weird future Earth of Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique, R. E. Howard's Conan stories which sometimes featured space aliens or Lovecraftian horrors, etc.
Also the Lyonesse trilogy by Jack Vance, as well as his Dying Earth universe.
 
Last edited:

Serus

Arcane
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Gamma World, Tekumel, Metamorphosis Alpha, Perihelion, Oaxaca, Hylics, Kenshi, etc.

You can say that Gamma World and Metamorphosis Alpha are examples of how "weird colonizes the traditional", but I have no idea what the others are.
I'd make the claim that the "weird" is more traditional than the "traditional"!

Most pre-Tolkien fantasy are nowadays considered weird, while post-Tolkien fantasy is what's considered traditional.
The space fantasy of Edgar Rice Borroughs, the weird future Earth of Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique, R. E. Howard's Conan stories which sometimes featured space aliens or Lovecraftian horrors, etc.

In fact, the so-called "Weird Fiction" is much older than high fantasy!
Weird is the REAL traditional!
REH's Conan had "space aliens"? Where? Lovercrafts influences on REH are well known (to nerds :D) but aliens?

Edit: I realized that you meant the other authors. Borroughs certainly has aliens. Very disappointed. I want Howard to be resurrected and write "Conan vs space aliens".
Edit 2: REH's Conan could be considered "traditional fantasy" these days. Just not Tolkienesque fantasy. Isn't that weird either to be honest. The weirdest thing i recall were those "black" giant humanoid beings in some island on the ocean, can't remember the name of the story. Most of his short stories with Conan are fantastic though.
Edit 3: Your point stands, REH is the only one well known by pop culture of today.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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REH's Conan had "space aliens"? Where? Lovercrafts influences on REH are well known (to nerds :D) but aliens?
ddh2iz7-999bf8a7-8120-4e00-ab92-a736268ca538.jpg
 

Serus

Arcane
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REH's Conan had "space aliens"? Where? Lovercrafts influences on REH are well known (to nerds :D) but aliens?
ddh2iz7-999bf8a7-8120-4e00-ab92-a736268ca538.jpg
This is Lovercraft's influnce or hommage and this creature was more of a magic/extradimensional nature than space alien in REH version IIRC, I might be wrong on that. I hoped for something more space-SF-alieny a la Princess of Mars and unknown to me. I've read "The Tower of Elephant" at agae ~11 and reread a few times since. But I suppose this must do. And this creature is weird, i give you that much. Still those "black" giants were weirder in my book. :-D
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You should read Clark Ashton Smith if you haven't yet, he's basically weirder REH in his sword & sorcery stories.
 

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