Troika and the Fallout rights - where did I read that?

[Revasser]

Hilarious! 13 pages of people raking Bethesda over the coals because they stole the bid from Troika, how they were immoral, heartless bastards and how Freak and some others had all this proof that this was gospel, and yet here comes one of the owners to say, "Nope, we never even made a bid on the game." The rest of this thread should be full of apologies to MSFD and Kathode, but that'd take a real man to do. Instead, we get to watch the painful fawning of the faithful to their fallen master.

I hope Leon does well. I think that if Troika had a few business types to offset the creative geniuses there, the company would still be in business. Lack of polish killed Troika. I hope that we see the "big 3" again soon.

Nah, apologies are meaningless unless they're sincere. Why say "I'm sorry", when I'm not?

For the Beth guys, posting in this thread (or on this forum in general) is like joining the army. Don't do it if you're not prepared to get shot at.

 

[Volourn]

So... who's lacking morals now? Surely isn't Bethesda.

R00fles! :D

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hilarious! 13 pages of people raking Bethesda over the coals because they stole the bid from Troika, how they were immoral, heartless bastards and how Freak and some others had all this proof that this was gospel, and yet here comes one of the owners to say, "Nope, we never even made a bid on the game." The rest of this thread should be full of apologies to MSFD and Kathode, but that'd take a real man to do. Instead, we get to watch the painful fawning of the faithful to their fallen master.

Huh? It was stated that Beth did something not overly ethical and moral by buying the license when Troika was trying to buy it. That's all. What part of what Leon posted proves that wrong? Not to mention, Leon said what he should have said. It was kathode who mentioned the bid war.

...fawning of the faithful to their fallen master.

It's called respect, bitch.

Lack of polish killed Troika

If that was true, neither Obsidian, nor Bethesda, not even Bio would be in business. Lack of publishers' interest in RPGs is what killed Troika.

 

[Ausir]

Lack of Polish definitely killed Troika. They should have had more Polish people. Is Leon Boyarsky of Polish or Russian ancestry?

 

[bryce777]

I couldn't agree more about Troika's need for business types. I believe I've mentioned before that we were looking to recruit a business guy to run that side of things before we circled the drain.

Sadly, barring any miracles, Troika is pretty much dead and buried. We have officially gone out of business from a legal standpoint. Oh, well, seven years isn't a bad run. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go sob quietly in the corner.

leon

www.leonardboyarsky.com <------makes a great gift!

Well, a lot of us are glad of the games you brought us in troika, for what it's worth. I can't count the times I have replayed toee and arcanum. I think if you'd had just a little more money and time, you could have surpassed the original fallout stuff.

 

[Volourn]

No.


"If that was true, neither Obsidian, nor Bethesda, not even Bio would be in business. Lack of publishers' interest in RPGs is what killed Troika."

Obsidian - They've had one game. It's hard to call their gameS buggy when they've only had one.

Betehsda - Their games ar ebuggy but they also sell millions of copies.

BIO - While their games have bugs, they're nowhere ear as buggy and they tend to patch the biug bugs up right away. If Troika could patch their games years after elease without complaining that the 'publisher won't allow them to' then return.

Lack of publishers' interested in RPGs made by Troika is what killed Troika. Other developers don't seem to have a p[roblem getting publishers. Heck, Obsidian likely has a publisher for their 3rd game. Troika had chances with three different publishers. That, to me, says the problem is with Troika not with the publishers.

Bugs were just one of Troika's big problems.

They ran out of chances..

 

[bryce777]

Another headache night?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Obsidian - They've had one game. It's hard to call their gameS buggy when they've only had one.

First, the word was "unpolished", second, I didn't call their games buggy. I said it could have been enough to put them out if their misery. I meant, business.

Betehsda - Their games ar ebuggy but they also sell millions of copies.

Really? Wow! That's awesome. I didn't know that Daggerfall, Battlespire (Yes! That great attempt to fuck with the franchise and capitalize on "everyone loves shooters!" shall never be forgotten), and Redguard sold millions. You learn something new every day!

BIO - While their games have bugs, they're nowhere ear as buggy and they tend to patch the biug bugs up right away. If Troika could patch their games years after elease without complaining that the 'publisher won't allow them to' then return.

It took them 3 weeks to patch up KOTOR which was almost unplayable with the sound on on many machines. NWN had a bug list a mile long. Etc

Lack of publishers' interested in RPGs made by Troika is what killed Troika. Other developers don't seem to have a p[roblem getting publishers. Heck, Obsidian likely has a publisher for their 3rd game. Troika had chances with three different publishers. That, to me, says the problem is with Troika not with the publishers.

How many companies can you name that make games of Troika's caliber?

 

[Haris]

Wont this thread bring even bigger hate towards Bethseda now?

 

[DarkSign]

I couldn't agree more about Troika's need for business types. I believe I've mentioned before that we were looking to recruit a business guy to run that side of things before we circled the drain.

Sadly, barring any miracles, Troika is pretty much dead and buried. We have officially gone out of business from a legal standpoint. Oh, well, seven years isn't a bad run. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go sob quietly in the corner.

leon

www.leonardboyarsky.com <------makes a great gift!

So you're saying that if I came up with 6-10 mil I couldnt get you back on track?

 

[Revasser]

I couldn't agree more about Troika's need for business types. I believe I've mentioned before that we were looking to recruit a business guy to run that side of things before we circled the drain.

Sadly, barring any miracles, Troika is pretty much dead and buried. We have officially gone out of business from a legal standpoint. Oh, well, seven years isn't a bad run. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go sob quietly in the corner.

leon

www.leonardboyarsky.com <------makes a great gift!

So you're saying that if I came up with 6-10 mil I couldnt get you back on track?

I'll have it if Boyarsky doesn't want it.

 

[DarkSign]

Sure. Produce evidence of a company like Troika

 

[crpgnut]

I think the rumour may have originated in part with me. I know someone who was involved in the process of Troika organising funds for the bid. Frankly, I've forgotten the exact details (and didn't know a lotl by any means) but they got a certain amount (VC or similar, I guess) and were hopeful of being successful. Bethsoft came in at the last minute with a bigger number and Troika just couldn't get to that amount.

Yep. Troika had an arrangement with Interplay, but when Beth offered more, that arrangment was quickly forgotten by a certain Frenchman of questionable ethics. It was also stated that if Troika had the license, a certain publisher would have ok'ed the development contract. Without the license, an unknown PA project wasn't very appealing. The end.

To remind Vault Dweller of his own post. Dhruin mentions it, then you add your 2¢. After this you keep implying that Bethesda has no morals because they stole the license. How? Troika never even made a bid!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Dhruin wrote: "...involved in the process of Troika organising funds for the bid". I added about the arrangement. Nobody said that Troika submitted a bid. Again, it was kathode who mentioned the bid war and the implication that a bid was made.

The amount was known. The publisher didn't want to pay it, but would have paid for the development if Troika had the license. Troika wanted to get the funds independently. Bethesda bought it. The end.

I've never said that Bethesda stole the license, so don't make shit up, but I said that they shouldn't have bought it when Troika was interested and in the picture. 1 mil is not a lot of money in the business world. It doesn't take long to get the funds.

 

[Fintilgin]

The rest of this thread should be full of apologies to MSFD and Kathode, but that'd take a real man to do. Instead, we get to watch the painful fawning of the faithful to their fallen master.

Why? Didn't they disapear around page 4 or something? I can't speak for anyone else, but I went to pains to point out that I like both Bethesda and their games. I did however take issue with a mysterious stranger who appeared out of nowhere to scream at us about how stupid we were and say:

1.) Troika sucked, and it was great they didn't get the game.
2.) Troika had no more claim or right to Fallout then Bethesda, despite the fact that it was founded by several of the people who helped make Fallout in the first place.
3.) Now that Bethesda had the license they had the right to do whatever they wanted and anyone who complained was being a whiny fanboy. Bethesda could, presumably, turn Fallout 3 into "Dance-Dance Fallout: A Post-Apocalytic Barbie-Dreamhouse Sex Simulator" and if fans complained they were being stupid because they couldn't change anything, and Bethesda wasn't going to listen to them anyway, and they could just shut up or make their own goddamn game. And anyway, as long as it was a good Barbie-Dreamhouse Sex Simulator, that was that mattered.

And then the mysterious stanger vanished.

Now, I think those were dumb things to say, and I still think so. I certainly wouldn't appologize for saying so. But why would I appologize to MSFD or Kathode? They didn't say any of those things, did they? Should I also appologize to Wil Wright and Warren Spector? Y'know, just to be thorough?

Then again, you might not have been talking to me at all. In which case I'm just going to go back to playing Gothic II Gold and Civ 4. :D

 

[Revasser]

Sure. Produce evidence of a company like Troika

Ahhh, yeeeeess... I'll be happy to do that. Just deposit the money in my account and I'll... ah... produce all the evidence you could ever need. I won't take the money and run to Switzerland, then use a little of it to have you assassinated, I promise. These aren't the droids you're looking for. You can go about your business. Move along.

 

[Dagon]

Lack of Polish definitely killed Troika. They should have had more Polish people. Is Leon Boyarsky of Polish or Russian ancestry?

Definitely!!
Remeber that Poland is the messiah of the nations
(ach ci nasi wieszcze polscy :D )

I couldn't agree more about Troika's need for business types. I believe I've mentioned before that we were looking to recruit a business guy to run that side of things before we circled the drain.

Sadly, barring any miracles, Troika is pretty much dead and buried. We have officially gone out of business from a legal standpoint. Oh, well, seven years isn't a bad run. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go sob quietly in the corner.

leon

www.leonardboyarsky.com <------makes a great gift!

don't give up man! you have created the best game on the earth ( fallout) and many great games at troika ,that were much better than other companies cRPGs , i'm sure that you will create even better games in the future maybe not in your own company , but they will be great aswell

 

[kathode]

Dhruin wrote: "...involved in the process of Troika organising funds for the bid". I added about the arrangement. Nobody said that Troika submitted a bid. Again, it was kathode who mentioned the bid war and the implication that a bid was made.

I was just going off Dhurin's comments. I have no information that they were even involved. My entire point was that I find that version of the story difficult to believe given the small amount that we paid for the license. I haven't read about the last 12 pages of this thread or so, though.

 

[Vault Dweller]

My entire point was that I find that version of the story difficult to believe given the small amount that we paid for the license.

Well, small for a company like Bethesda, large for a company that has trouble paying its employees and needs publishers to stay alive.

I haven't read about the last 12 pages of this thread or so, though.

You didn't miss much.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Dhruin wrote: "...involved in the process of Troika organising funds for the bid". I added about the arrangement. Nobody said that Troika submitted a bid. Again, it was kathode who mentioned the bid war and the implication that a bid was made.

I haven't read about the last 12 pages of this thread or so, though.

In summation, Troika rulez!!! Bethesda droolz!!! It was entertaining time filler at work though.

 

[Briosafreak]

Hilarious! 13 pages of people raking Bethesda over the coals because they stole the bid from Troika, how they were immoral, heartless bastards and how Freak and some others had all this proof that this was gospel, and yet here comes one of the owners to say, "Nope, we never even made a bid on the game." The rest of this thread should be full of apologies to MSFD and Kathode, but that'd take a real man to do. Instead, we get to watch the painful fawning of the faithful to their fallen master.

I hope Leon does well. I think that if Troika had a few business types to offset the creative geniuses there, the company would still be in business. Lack of polish killed Troika. I hope that we see the "big 3" again soon.

Are you stupid or what? He said the publisher made the offer and conducted the contacts with Interplay, and that they were watching to see what happened, that they didn´t do the bidding themselves, but the publisher. That explains why Beth didn´t knew about Troika beeing in the process, wich is nice to know.

I asked kathode to clarify what he meant earlier, he seemed to do it without reading the 12 pages, so that's cool too. You´re the one not cool here.

 

[Volourn]

"How many companies can you name that make games of Troika's caliber?"

Lots. I can even name more that make games the games of Troika's calibre, and don't screw up their relationship with publishers.


"It took them 3 weeks to patch up KOTOR which was almost unplayable with the sound on on many machines. NWN had a bug list a mile long. Etc"

1. How many is many? 100 out of the 1 mil purchasers who bought in within the first month? Let's keep number sin perspective espicizally when you have no idea what the numbers are. Very likely the percentage of people who had problems with KOTOR was far less than it was with BL.

2. A) NWN was/is a much more complex game than either TOEE or BL. (lol, that should make people cry)

B) NWN's bugs are mostly bugs that don't make MASS PERCENTAGES OF PEOPLE sufferingc rashes. Again, like KOTOR, having 100 people ouf of a million people having major problems is not the same as 100 people out of a thousand. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

C) BIO actually has had no problems patching the game, nor do theyw hine that The Big Bad Evil Publisher tm won't let them. What's hialrious both NWN and TOEE had the SAME publisher.

Then again, a TOEE patch was worthless because by the time it was ever released all but a handful of people stopped playing TOEE anyways.

Hahahahahahahahahah!!

 

[Dhruin]

If anyone deserves an apology from me, I'm happy to do it. I never said Bethsoft did anything wrong and I'm sure Kathode doesn't mind me trying to clarify, so there's no issue there.

Did I misrepresent Troika? I don't know. Again, I knew about the Bethsoft license a long time before it was public, so my source was correct there. I also clarified the timeline - I had originally assumed Troika had placed a bid before Bethsoft but on re-reading the emails, realised that wasn't necessarily the case and said so.

So, if Troika never tried to organise, or have organised on their behalf, some form of financing with a view to obtaining the Fallout license just a little before Bethsoft actually got it - I apologise. I don't think Leon rules this out, though.

 

[Fintilgin]

I was just going off Dhurin's comments. I have no information that they were even involved. My entire point was that I find that version of the story difficult to believe given the small amount that we paid for the license. I haven't read about the last 12 pages of this thread or so, though.

I was wondering how much a license like Fallout would go for, way back when Interplay started falling apart. ~1 million or so does seem a bit low, especially if you think how much money Bethesda could make off it. If Fallout 3 sells about the same as Morrowind, (I think that was around 4mil copies Xbox&PC? Not sure what number I heard.) and it will probably sell more, then that's a LOT of money, depending on how much Bethesda actually sees from each box sold. Sounds like it was Interplay's dire situation that made the price so low, and under other situations it would have been much higher.

It makes me wonder how much other cool old licences would go for...
Arcanum...
Star Control...
Darklands...
Master of Orion... (Well, after MOO3, probably about seventy-five cents.)

You probably can't/won't answer this Kathode, but does Bethesda own all non-MMORPG rights to Fallout and the IP? Or do those remain with Interplay, while Bethesda just has the right to publish a Fallout 3 (and maybe 4 & 5)? I'm particularly curious about the rights to the first two games, does Bethesda own the rights to Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 as well? Those would make a cool bonus DVD in the Fallout 3 special edition, or neat 'PR' free release, ala Elder Scrolls: Arena.

 

[kingcomrade]

I'd be glad to pick up a second copy of fallout. I spent yesterday burning copies of my Fallout CD in case it broke.