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Company News Troika Demise Confirmation

Sol Invictus

Erudite
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Tags: Troika Games

<b>Andrew Meggs</b>, the Lead Programmer of Troika's Vampire: Bloodlines posted some further confirmations on the demise of the company at <a href=http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=183542>this thread on No Mutants Allowed</a>.
<br>
<blockquote>
<br>
Everyone's talking about what the ex-Troika people are going to do. The reality is that for the past several months Troika has been on a skeleton crew. The real layoffs happened in two waves at the start and end of November, and a lot of people have already moved on. I know of ex-Troika people working for all of these companies:
<br>
<br>
Activision
<br>
Day One Studios
<br>
Mythic Entertainment
<br>
Obsidian Entertainment
<br>
Point of View (2)
<br>
Seven Studios (2)
<br>
Sony (2)
<br>
Supervillains (2)
<br>
Swinging Ape
<br>
Tiger Hare (2+)
<br>
Turtle Rock
<br>
Treyarch
<br>
<br>
(And any of you who are reading this and don't see your current employer listed, by all means PM me. Let's not lose touch.)</blockquote>
<br>
It's nice to know that many of them have found more work in the game industry. The reality that Troika's been in trouble since the end of November may come as a surprise to some, however.
<br>
<br>
Update: Because Bloodlines was released on November 16, Saint_Proverbius has commented that Troika might not have been paid for the last milestone (and final build) of the title's development. That would explain Troika's current financial situation, and also the reason why the game was in as bad a shape as it was during release.
 

jiujitsu

Cipher
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Project: Eternity
They were laying people off even before they released Bloodlines?

No wonder the patch took so long..
 

Hory

Erudite
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I'd like to know where exactly the people are working now, especially the bosses :).
 

Jinxed

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Special Encounter
The only developers that I find worth my time after this are Japanese. Konami and Namco and a few others. I've abandoned the console and haven't been playing anything on it for over a year, but it seems that I'll be getting back to it real soon.
 

Avé

Liturgist
Joined
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Messages
468
I am reminded of something I read a while ago

"The eldest goat devours you by the beard"
 

DemonKing

Arcane
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Messages
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Exitium said:
I don't think they were paid for the last milestone.

What evidence is there for this?

If it's true then I will lose all respect for Activision (one of the better publishers, IMHO). I don't know what grounds there would be for withholding funds. More likely, Troika just had no money in the kitty and no project with a publisher likely to fund further projects.
 

Avé

Liturgist
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Messages
468
Major_Blackhart said:
I have one big question cause it's on my mind: What happens now to Cain, ANderson, and Boyarsky?
Troika 2 - Attack of the Clones where Troika become a console only RPG developer, releasing DnD ActionRPG after ActionRPG
 

Taoreich

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Hotlanta
DemonKing said:
Exitium said:
I don't think they were paid for the last milestone.
What evidence is there for this?

Ditto. Is there some internal squabble that you or Saint are privvy to? Or is this just playing connect the dots e.g. Troika is laying off assets->Troika has no money->The last milestone was not paid :QED?
I'm not challenging you necessarily, I'm just saying that there isn't a lot of public info (to my knowledge) that make the last link in that chain a reasonable assumption.
 

Sol Invictus

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What evidence is there for this?

That they were laid off in the same month the game was released is a good indicator of evidence of such assumptions. If they got paid for the final build, then they should have had several months worth of cash from that.

That kind of thing happens a lot when you have a small development house and a huge publisher.
 

Taoreich

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Exitium said:
That they were laid off in the same month the game was released is a good indicator of evidence of such assumptions.

It's a reasonable assumption that Activision willfully withheld payment and as a result Troika responds by closing it's doors? What? Why would they withold the milestone payment? That would seem to be more the pertinent question if we're looking for accountablity (as some understandably are).

Option 1: Ex's statement, "That kind of thing happens a lot when you have a small development house and a huge publisher" gives the impression that Activision is just a corporate moster who sees an opportunity to screw the little guy (though I apologize if that is not the implication you were intending). If this is true- why is Troika quietly closing it's doors? If this occurred in November, wouldn't we see a lawsuit or other action for troika to recoup the contractual fees? Clearly Activision would be default of their contract here, leaving Troika with various remedy options

Option 2: Troika dropped the ball somewhere. (i)Mismanagement of milestone obligations which lead to the revocation of the final payment obligation (ii) Mismanagement of general finances to the point that the payment was made, but Troika had hedged it's bets on some opportunity which did not go through

I'm not trying to crucify Troika, I just think that a general statement that they are dead because they didn't get paid is not supported right now
 

M0rphz0rz

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Messages
95
Since everyone is making assumptions about conjectures based on speculation these days, I might as well jump on the bandwagon:

It's not necessarily Activision's fault. Maybe those people just got laid off because they were no longer needed? VTM: BL must have gone gold at the beginning of November, and they didn't have anything else in the pipeline. No work, no income. That's the harsh realities of the business world, unfortunately.
 
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Check out my massive package.
Exitium said:
...and also the reason why the game was in as bad a shape as it was during release.
Fuck that. And fuck you and your flip-flopping pussy bullshit.

HOW MANY TIMES have we heard the "Oh, well, Troika's publisher screwed them" line? That's right. We've heard it every fucking time.

HAS IT EVER OCCURRED TO YOU FUCKWITS THAT TROIKA MAY HAVE JUST SUCKED AS A DEVELOPMENT HOUSE?!
 

Sol Invictus

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Flip-flop? Hardly. New information came to light, and being as I am, I go with the facts.

It's like arguing the earth is flat just because you've argued it for awhile, in the face of contrary evidence. I am not going to do that. Sticking to your guns for the sake of 'not being a flip flopper' is incredibly idiotic.
 

Avé

Liturgist
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Messages
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Time for another flip-flop ex!


Mandrew just posted:

Mandrew said:
Exitium said:
It sounds like Activision didn't pay them for the final build and the last milestone for Bloodlines. That would explain the bugs, the slow patching and the overall unpolished quality of the game.
That's pretty far off the mark. There's a huge amount I could say about what things that went both right and wrong, on both Vampire's development and Troika's business, but if you were me, would you post any of that to this forum at this point?

Now let's wait for Ex to go "looks like I was right" again.
 
Self-Ejected

dojoteef

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Yeah, but why aren't you "sticking to your guns" on the mismanagement issue. You've suddenly jumped on the bandwagon that it must be the publihser's fault. It could very well be a case of mismanagement. It is highly unlikely that Activision would breach the contract. So either Bloodlines required more money than was expected and so they used up their money supply early, or as was mentioned Troika might not have had any prospects so they had to let people go. Then it could be that they couldn't get any publisher interested in their new project idea, so they are now having to liquidate.
 

bryce777

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In my country the system operates YOU
dojoteef said:
Yeah, but why aren't you "sticking to your guns" on the mismanagement issue. You've suddenly jumped on the bandwagon that it must be the publihser's fault. It could very well be a case of mismanagement. It is highly unlikely that Activision would breach the contract. So either Bloodlines required more money than was expected and so they used up their money supply early, or as was mentioned Troika might not have had any prospects so they had to let people go. Then it could be that they couldn't get any publisher interested in their new project idea, so they are now having to liquidate.

Well, this kind of thing is like reading tea leaves.

Of course opinions are going to change with each bit of info.

I would say atari dropped the ball with toee just because they could have funded another desperately needed patcha nd didn't bother, but there is not enough info on the activision story to even really speculate.

A lot of rumors actually are from inside info of people not allowed to talk, so maybe some people know more than the rest of us? WHo knows.

I would like to know.
 

Sol Invictus

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dojoteef said:
Yeah, but why aren't you "sticking to your guns" on the mismanagement issue. You've suddenly jumped on the bandwagon that it must be the publihser's fault. It could very well be a case of mismanagement. It is highly unlikely that Activision would breach the contract. So either Bloodlines required more money than was expected and so they used up their money supply early, or as was mentioned Troika might not have had any prospects so they had to let people go. Then it could be that they couldn't get any publisher interested in their new project idea, so they are now having to liquidate.

Yes, it could definitely be a case of mismanagement, but Activision is pretty well known for their screw ups, too. I never said it wasn't a case of mismanagement, only that Activision's actions probably contributed to the end state of the game.

If Mandrew's right and it was a case of Troika screwing up rather than Activision, then it looks like I was right all along, doesn't it, Ave? :lol: No more free rides for Ave. :lol:
 

Avé

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Messages
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Exitium said:
dojoteef said:
Yeah, but why aren't you "sticking to your guns" on the mismanagement issue. You've suddenly jumped on the bandwagon that it must be the publihser's fault. It could very well be a case of mismanagement. It is highly unlikely that Activision would breach the contract. So either Bloodlines required more money than was expected and so they used up their money supply early, or as was mentioned Troika might not have had any prospects so they had to let people go. Then it could be that they couldn't get any publisher interested in their new project idea, so they are now having to liquidate.

Yes, it could definitely be a case of mismanagement, but Activision is pretty well known for their screw ups, too. I never said it wasn't a case of mismanagement, only that Activision's actions probably contributed to the end state of the game.
ZZZZZZZZZIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!

That's the sound of Ex just flip-flopping.

Exitium said:
If Mandrew's right and it was a case of Troika screwing up rather than Activision, then it looks like I was right all along, doesn't it, Ave?
*gurgle*

That's the sound of Exitium having another delusion, in this case, that Mandrew somehow said it was Troika screwing up that caused this.



ALERT, ALERT, EXITIUM HAS ENTERED DELUSIONAL PHASE, PLEASE CLEAR ALL FORUMS WHILE HE WORKS IT OUT IN A FRENZY OF INCREASINGLY INSANE REPLIES TO FICTIONAL POSTS
 

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