Re: ....
Kraszu said:
yipsl said:
I can play a male Khajiit Juggling Mage in TES. I can play a female Breton Courtesan of Dibella in TES. What the heck can I play in Gothic or Two Worlds? A guy on a generic fantasy mission? Gothic is good for what it is, but it's no TES; not at it's best and not at it's worst.
What is the difference between male Khajiit Juggling Mage and female Breton Courtesan of Dibella? You can as well play mage or Paladyn in Gothic. Story in morrowind was so innovative?
The difference is the way I roleplay them. The Juggling Mage always joins the Thieves Guild and the Mage Guild. He starts out dodgy and becomes a bit more religious as time goes by, usually joining the cult of Zenithar in Daggerfall, or the Temple in Morrowind (because he wants to subvert Morrowind province slavery from within). The Courtesan joins the House of Dibella and one of the political factions on the Iliac Bay (Daggerfall) or the Imperial Cult and the Mage Guild in Morrowind.
There is no reason for a Courtesan of Dibella in Oblivion because Oblivion guts the religious side of TES completely. It only shines in comparison to Two Worlds, which was my point, not in comparison to prior TES. That's why I consider Oblivion to be the successor to Battlespire with a bit of Morrowind roleplaying thrown in.
Sir_Brennus said:
That would've at least shown that they put some effort in this drek.
Anyone who calls the design of Oblivion dreck should also call the current state of Two Worlds dreck. You are playing a beta with Two Worlds, or at least an MMO wannabee that wanted to hook the single player CRPG gamer.
Sure, they crammed too much in Oblivion; and they mainstreamed two much. Yet, Two Worlds is just a bunch of MMO mobs to fight with game destroying bugs that can show up after two minutes of playing. Oblivion's game destroying bug takes 200 hours. Note that I do not consider Oblivion to be a great CRPG. I consider it better than Two Worlds as I have seen it described.
Sir_Brennus said:
Yeah, you can be everything! And that is BAD because you can nearly be anything and everything at the same time. You can do whatever you want BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING. Oblivion is just an excercise in endless tedium.
A sandbox CRPG is one type of game within the CRPG genre, and anyone who does not like that style of game should not be playing TES, not even Daggerfall. I control myself and do not become the head of every guild I join and I wish they'd remove that feature from the series, but it does not break the game for me simply because it's there as an option.
Sir_Brennus said:
Are you nuts? In which regard was Oblivion NOT stalwart linear? Is senseless exploring repetetive dungeons with leveled mobs non-linearity now? The main quest nearly as linear as Mage Knight Apocalypse. You can see that by counting the immortal characters. The sheer amount of them shows that you can't finish the game without follwing a linear line of very linear quests.
Oblivion was very linear in comparison to Morrowind and Daggerfall. It does not seem to be as linear as Two Worlds. I can actually play the game and not do the MQ, and it does not bother me that there are unkillable (until quests are fulfilled) NPCs. That's because I don't judge a game by the number of NPCs I can kill. When I do kill an NPC, I want there to be in game motivation.
For example, I kill the Imperial wife of the ruler in Leyawiin. I do that when she's no longer protected by a "crown" and my in game motivation is that she tortures Argonians for fun. I generally kill her in a stealth way from a distance when she's out for a walk. I also will try to kill the vampire count of Skingrad this time around, if he becomes vulnerable too. So far, I know he's linked to the Mage Guild and the MQ, but I don't know if he's linked to other guild quests.
Otherwise, I do not kill NPCs, not even obnoxious ones. It's just that I hate torture and I hated the fact that the "grey lady" vampire was operating in his castle with the cooperation of the count and the guards. What really gets me riled about Oblivion is that the suits of that company hate mild nudity but love torture and senseless violence because their marketing focus groups tell them that's what gamers want most in a game.
Sir_Brennus said:
What does that mean? What kind of roleplaying? LARPing a character while riding your Tanke, erm sorry your Horse? Please give proof and try to stay at least remotly comprehensible.
Read the above comments I made to the other poster. If that's LARPing to you, then so be it. At least I have more choices of character type to LARP than you do in Two Worlds, or in the Gothic series, for that matter.
What do you call roleplaying? Micromanaging stats?
Sir_Brennus said:
Maybe it IS a different kind of game, because the designers WANTED it to be different?
There is nothing wrong with difference. The genre of CRPG can benefit from different style of RPGs. They do not all have to be identical. They should attempt to be creative and original, but few games are that nowadays.
Sir_Brennus said:
I am happy that Gothic is no TES game. So I get individual NPCs, varied quests and a personal involvment and motivation to carry on fighting (remember Gothic 1?). Where is that in Oblivion? I don't fucking care about the dead Emporer and his legacy, because the fucking invasion does not proceed. It stays in limbo forever, if I want it to be so.
I'd prefer more urgency in Oblivion. I think they can have a sandbox and still have the urgency. The world should become destroyed if you do not proceed on the MQ, yet I'd like the idea of not having to do the MQ. A fan mod for Morrowind had the guy in the ship be the hero and you started the game hearing about how he defeated Dagoth Ur.
I'd love to be able to take the amulet of Kings to Jauffrey and say "you take care of it, I'm not the hero type". Then, I could do everything else and watch the world to see if it survives or implodes. Keep in mind that other games make you do the MQ too. Bethesda found a half assed way to offer choice in the MQ, I'd prefer they find a reasonable way next time around.
Also, I don't think the Fighters Guild would be so worried about that other company's competition, or the Mage Guild would be so worried about the lamed down King of Worms if there was a Daedra invasion going on. Yes, Oblivion has design problems, but if you think they smell like dreck, then don't claim that Two Worlds smells like roses.
As for Gothic, I only played Gothic 2 part way through. I'll give Gothic 3 a try and might even look for Gothic. I might even replay Gothic 2, but I hate the combat system even more than I hate the one in Oblivion. I got used to the one in Oblivion, but when I couldn't find the manual for Gothic 2, I couldn't figure the controls out and the game didn't seem to have an in game menu giving the keyboard controls or to remap anything.
Why people love to hate Bethesda's errors in design when ignoring errors in other game's design is beyond me. If Bethsoft had not been bought by Zenimax, we'd just have Daggerfall to fondly remember. That would be fine for most, but I think there are people who must have a game to hate in the genre they love and if it wasn't Morrowind or Oblivion, then I wonder what you'd choose?
Sir_Brennus said:
Did you ever asked yourself why the designers of Fallout put the time limit for finding the water chip into the game? The feel of urgence is only present if real danger is lingering.
I never played Fallout or Fallout 2. I don't like post apocalyptic all that much. I did play Wasteland on the C64.
Sir_Brennus said:
Fact check and reality check. You must be playing a different game. My TW works like a charm. If you want to play a broken game than play World of Chaos. Maybe you confused them... no, mmmh just a thought.
I am not playing Two Worlds, I'm relying on comments by people who are playing it. I think it has serious design issues, game breaking bugs and large areas empty of anything but mobs to fight, just like many poorly designed MMO's.
If you're playing Two Worlds and liking it, then you are a beta tester who paid for the privelege. I hope they get a game out, with patches and expansions, that makes it worthwhile for the rest of us.
IMHO, Oblivion is a fine successor to Battlespire with a bit of Morrowind thrown in. It's no Daggerfall. Whether it's better than the Gothic series depends on the type of RPG people like. I love TES and don't mind sandbox RPGs. I wish Oblivion were better, but it's not as bad as Two Worlds and it's different from Gothic 2. I preferred Morrowind to Gothic 2 in plot and in player choices. That does not mean that I think the Gothic games are dreck, even if your choice makes you say that Oblivion is dreck.