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Two worlds impressions
- Thread starter Trash
- Start date
Trash
Pointing and laughing.
Well, I've played the game for quite some time. The short version is, although it has it's fun parts, I quickly lost interest. The longer version is posted below.
Graphics
+
Good graphics and an engine that runs fluid, while having huge draw distances. It's great fun to stand on some mountain and see rivers, cities and other landmarks from miles away.
-
Animation ranges from decent to dreadfull. Though dreadfull is often the case. The faces on the different npc's are a terror to behold.
Sound
+
Quite a few sound effects are rather good. The background music is a bit generic, but seems fitting.
-
Unlike that godawfull song at the titel screen. it's however so bad, that it becomes fun. The english speech on the other hand is so bad that it becomes embarrasing.
Role playing
+
You can cater to quite a variety of factions, and some quests seem to have implications on the game world. Npc's can be seen going about their daily lives. There seem to be a lot of options for improving and shaping your character. The spell system is quite fun at first and seems rather deep. You collect cards/spells that you can combine with other cards to create the magic you like.
-
But alas, your standing the factions are bland. It's generally just a number that determines whether you get some quests from certain npc's. Most quests are kill and fetch and offer no choices what so ever. Most npc's seem to be happy to just stand around. Many skills on the character sheet seem locked. Maybe it's just me and you needed to find trainers, but I couldn't find any of these this week. The spell system remains interesting, though it really isn't that deep. You collect cards that represent spells and can collect other cards that give them a boost in power, make them last longer or cost less mana. But in the end it's still the old variety of spells to play with.
Exploration
+
The world is huge and filled with all sorts of places and things to see and do.
-
Too bad it just feels boring. Every few metres is a new group of enemies, that stand around for you to come and kill them. There are lots of places, but there is shit all to do there but killing groups of enemies and collecting items. They also didn't really put in a lot of energy on making the world interesting. Hardly any bloodtrails into dark caverns or other points of interest like in the gothic series is to be found. In the end it just feels samey real quick and was a real let-down for me.
Gameplay
+
The game is about action, and it can be quite interesting in this at the best of times. It's quick, deadly and furious with huge groups attacking. There are mounts and mounted combat included. The huge collection of items, weapons and armor is fun. A pack rat will have a field day hoarding treasure. Exploring the pretty world is cool, and there is an urge to get to that next town, quest or dungeon.
-
The instant respawn at death in a nearby shrine kinda takes away the excitement. Often a difficult battle turns into a war of attrition where you attack, do some damage, get killed, respawn and attack again. The mounts seem to float instead of walk and get stuck on the scenery, enemies, little bumps and air. Most of the world excists of woods or other rugged terrain, kinda making it hard to fight with a huge horse. Then when you do, the horse gets stuck again on seemingly nothing.
Bugs
+
Patches seem to appear at quite a good rate.
-
So do new and interesting bugs every time I start the game up. But to be fair, they are thinning out and don't ruin the game for me.
Conclusion
In the end the game just isn't worth the perserverance for me. At it's best its a diablo clone in 3d in a huge world. At it's worst it's a buggy slasher that happens to have some good points. It feels like it had potential, but was incredibly rushed. From the bland gameworld, the boring quests, the bugs to the wildly varying degrees of artwork and animation to me it's just unfinished. Shame really, but some people do really seem to enjoy it. Try before you buy!
Graphics
+
Good graphics and an engine that runs fluid, while having huge draw distances. It's great fun to stand on some mountain and see rivers, cities and other landmarks from miles away.
-
Animation ranges from decent to dreadfull. Though dreadfull is often the case. The faces on the different npc's are a terror to behold.
Sound
+
Quite a few sound effects are rather good. The background music is a bit generic, but seems fitting.
-
Unlike that godawfull song at the titel screen. it's however so bad, that it becomes fun. The english speech on the other hand is so bad that it becomes embarrasing.
Role playing
+
You can cater to quite a variety of factions, and some quests seem to have implications on the game world. Npc's can be seen going about their daily lives. There seem to be a lot of options for improving and shaping your character. The spell system is quite fun at first and seems rather deep. You collect cards/spells that you can combine with other cards to create the magic you like.
-
But alas, your standing the factions are bland. It's generally just a number that determines whether you get some quests from certain npc's. Most quests are kill and fetch and offer no choices what so ever. Most npc's seem to be happy to just stand around. Many skills on the character sheet seem locked. Maybe it's just me and you needed to find trainers, but I couldn't find any of these this week. The spell system remains interesting, though it really isn't that deep. You collect cards that represent spells and can collect other cards that give them a boost in power, make them last longer or cost less mana. But in the end it's still the old variety of spells to play with.
Exploration
+
The world is huge and filled with all sorts of places and things to see and do.
-
Too bad it just feels boring. Every few metres is a new group of enemies, that stand around for you to come and kill them. There are lots of places, but there is shit all to do there but killing groups of enemies and collecting items. They also didn't really put in a lot of energy on making the world interesting. Hardly any bloodtrails into dark caverns or other points of interest like in the gothic series is to be found. In the end it just feels samey real quick and was a real let-down for me.
Gameplay
+
The game is about action, and it can be quite interesting in this at the best of times. It's quick, deadly and furious with huge groups attacking. There are mounts and mounted combat included. The huge collection of items, weapons and armor is fun. A pack rat will have a field day hoarding treasure. Exploring the pretty world is cool, and there is an urge to get to that next town, quest or dungeon.
-
The instant respawn at death in a nearby shrine kinda takes away the excitement. Often a difficult battle turns into a war of attrition where you attack, do some damage, get killed, respawn and attack again. The mounts seem to float instead of walk and get stuck on the scenery, enemies, little bumps and air. Most of the world excists of woods or other rugged terrain, kinda making it hard to fight with a huge horse. Then when you do, the horse gets stuck again on seemingly nothing.
Bugs
+
Patches seem to appear at quite a good rate.
-
So do new and interesting bugs every time I start the game up. But to be fair, they are thinning out and don't ruin the game for me.
Conclusion
In the end the game just isn't worth the perserverance for me. At it's best its a diablo clone in 3d in a huge world. At it's worst it's a buggy slasher that happens to have some good points. It feels like it had potential, but was incredibly rushed. From the bland gameworld, the boring quests, the bugs to the wildly varying degrees of artwork and animation to me it's just unfinished. Shame really, but some people do really seem to enjoy it. Try before you buy!
yipsl
Scholar
JarlFrank said:
The voice acting in Oblivion isn't that bad, but it's repetitious. I'd had hopes that Shivering Isles wasn't repetitious, but until they get the bug fixed, and I get another Oblivion DVD, I won't have my own opinion.
Perhaps they didn't spend enough time for the Shivering Isles giving the actors enough direction? I guess I'll give it a try later this summer when I get another Oblivion DVD. I don't think those Zenimax thralls at Bethsoft will replace the cracked DVD that's less than a year old, not even at a nominal fee.
So I went and got a no CD crack for the first time ever, just so I can continue to play, but I'm sure I'll need the DVD when I finally get Knights of the Nine and Shivering Isles.
cutterjohn said:
I really don't know why they put it above Oblivion. I like Oblivion. I don't love it, it's not an Elder Scrolls CRPG, but it's a step above Dark Messiah of Half Life Too which is marketed as an action RPG. I still rate Bethsoft Elder Scrolls in the following way:
CRPG:
1. Daggerfall
2. Morrowind
3. Arena (only because it's an AD&D clone system)
Action titles:
1. Oblivion
2. Battlespire
Adventure titles:
Redguard
I don't have a cell phone that can do games, so I haven't tried the Travels dungeon crawls, and I don't have a PSP, so no Oblivion rehash for that system. I do have a Gameboy and would love to see something done for that.
I still rate Morrowind above Gothic 2, but heard good things about Gothic. I don't know if Gothic 3 is better than Oblivion. I do know that what I've heard about Two Worlds makes it a buggy mess, and the fact that the single player is so limited makes me think it's not as good an "action RPG" as Oblivion.
By the sounds of this, it seems as waiting for a few more patches, possibly mods(?) and then going for the non-terribly voiced german version of the game seems like a good way to go.
It's not like a game has to be grand to get me interested these days. It just has to be decent. German review scores seem to hover in the high 70s, by the way. They like the sounds, graphics and atmosphere, combat seems to be rather decent, too. The story, while having a weak start, seems to be regarded as rather interesting in a generic-fantasy kind of way. There are complaints about the lack of any real roleplaying opportunitys, though. No problem, a neat little adventure with lots of exploring as well as some stats and swordsfighting is pretty much all we seem to be able to ask from mainstream, anyways.
It's not like a game has to be grand to get me interested these days. It just has to be decent. German review scores seem to hover in the high 70s, by the way. They like the sounds, graphics and atmosphere, combat seems to be rather decent, too. The story, while having a weak start, seems to be regarded as rather interesting in a generic-fantasy kind of way. There are complaints about the lack of any real roleplaying opportunitys, though. No problem, a neat little adventure with lots of exploring as well as some stats and swordsfighting is pretty much all we seem to be able to ask from mainstream, anyways.
yipsl said:
Believe me, the expansion really god badly done voice acting. Most of the voices just sound silly instead of mad. The overall athmosphere is quite good, and the dungeons look a lot better, and it's a lot more creative on the quest and story side, but the voice acting is terrible for the most part. Only Sheogorath sounds quite acceptable to me, but he was voiced by the same guy that voiced Lucien Lachance, and that guy was quite a good voiceactor.
Overall gameplay and athmosphere = Better than the vanilla game
Voice Acting = A lot worse
Really? I also thought that guy was pretty good, but definetely not for Sheogorath. Sheogorath annoyed me to no end, both the writing and voiceacting. I think the manservant (can't remember his name, the summonable walkthrough) was probably the best voice in Shivering Isles.
cutterjohn
Cipher
Are there many RPGs action or otherwise that are worse than Oblivious?Hazelnut said:
Morrowind: Yep, have to agree I rate it higher than G1 & G2 as well, simply because it DOES have teh better grafix, and I've gotten(and still do) a helluvalot more play out of it.
yipsl
Scholar
Hazelnut said:
Here's my brief (before heading out the door for work) views on the style of roleplaying in Oblivion vs. other games. I do like more complicated stat and weapons systems than Oblivion's mainstreamed truncation of The Elder Scrolls, but some of the European CRPGs are quite limited in the character choice area and more linear in the storyline when compared to Oblivion. Their worlds are not immersive as is that of The Elder Scrolls.
Oblivion fails in part because it tries what The Elder Scrolls does well, while answering to the siren call of mainstreaming. The 3D graphics lead to a smaller land area than I'd like to see, but most CRPGs nowadays aren't that much different. I miss the old fashioned Daggerfall atmosphere that was influenced by European folklore but was clearly a unique world with different mores, but it's the Zenimax lawyers that left that out; not the Bethsoft devs. They're just thralls in the company the way it's structured now.
Overall, I can see why Oblivion is rated so low compared to CRPGs of yore, but I can't see why it's rated lower than competing CRPGs today, which fail in so many more ways; or at least fail in different ways. Oblivion is fun if you don't take it for the Holy Grail of Daggerfall. Quite often, I wish Oblivion had Morrowind's conversation system and Morrowind had Oblivion's graphics, while both had Daggerfall's skill and weapons system; not to mention mores that allow for those old fashioned Houses of Dibella.
Regarding European ratings for Two Worlds, keep in mind the 90+ ratings of Oblivion, whereas we'd rate it in the 70's at best. So, I'd guess that a German reviewer of Two Worlds that rated it at, say, 76 just doesn't know CRPGs and that an accurate rating would shave off a good 20 points. So, Two Worlds is bargain bin for me.
Starwars said:
I'd say that Sheogorath should be irritating, when the lore's taken into account. As for the overall voices being silly instead of insane, well, it's hard to get really insane. You need inspired actors like Jack Nicholson for that. Most voice actors are decent at standard voices used in commercials, anime, Disney animation and whatnot, but how many good movie roles with disturbing insanity are out there today?
The guy who did LaChance is good. I just can't tolerate a John Waters movie, so I haven't seen his work. I couldn't bear to play through the Dark Brotherhood, but I usually end up killing LaChance when he shows up if I do the Arena or accidentally kill someone (or on purpose, like with the Imperial chick who's an evil torturer of poor harmless Argonians -- she's killable on her walks when her crown disappears). I'm going to finally take out that vamp count if his crown disappears too. Anyone who tolerates the Grey Lady's doings in his castle is not a "good" vampire.
ricolikesrice
Arcane
- Joined
- May 11, 2007
- Messages
- 1,231
....
oblivions world immersive... what ?
talking immersion and atmosphere
Morrowind -----------------------------------------------x
Gothic 3 --------------------------------------x
2 Worlds ---------------x
Oblivion x-
i dont know how you would definite immersion in relation to cRPGs but i d define it as:
1. creating the illusion of a believable world your character moves in, where actions have consequences and it atleast seems like its not centered around you.
2. creating a world that seems "realistic". of course most cRPG are about sci-fi, magic or whatever not-real-world-conditions, but even under such conditions it makes zero sense if for instance a dungeon full of evil creatures is just 10m footwalk from a garisson of guards and neither side gives a fuck.
3. the opposite of TES:Oblivion
oblivions world immersive... what ?
talking immersion and atmosphere
Morrowind -----------------------------------------------x
Gothic 3 --------------------------------------x
2 Worlds ---------------x
Oblivion x-
i dont know how you would definite immersion in relation to cRPGs but i d define it as:
1. creating the illusion of a believable world your character moves in, where actions have consequences and it atleast seems like its not centered around you.
2. creating a world that seems "realistic". of course most cRPG are about sci-fi, magic or whatever not-real-world-conditions, but even under such conditions it makes zero sense if for instance a dungeon full of evil creatures is just 10m footwalk from a garisson of guards and neither side gives a fuck.
3. the opposite of TES:Oblivion
yipsl
Scholar
Re: ....
I only have experience with Gothic 2 in comparison to Morrowind, but I did not see a huge world where the dungeons were significantly further from the cities than they were in Morrowind. With the graphics improvements of Gothic 3, I'd guess the world wasn't much different in size than Oblivion.
I'll grant that Oblivion's Cyrodiil is too crowded, and if they'd had ship travel to another province that loaded another map, they might have managed a larger world. They could also have simply decided on a less cluttered region with fewer abandoned forts. Perhaps with some real forts that showed the Legion cared about what was happening in the Imperial province.
Prove to me that Gothic 3 or Two Worlds is more realistic, except in the linear sense. TES has always been a sandbox action RPG, even back in the days of Daggerfall, and the failure of Oblivion is in leaving behind the consequences of opposing guilds. Otherwise, it's a go wherever, do whatever game in the tradition of The Elder Scrolls.
The other games are much more linear. How does that create a believable world? The suspension of disbelief should not depend on a linear plot. As many people here claim, an RPG is as much about roleplaying as it is about story and a wider range of roleplaying is possible in even the worst of The Elder Scrolls (ie Oblivion) than in the best of the Gothic. Two Worlds seems to be even lamer than Gothic or Oblivion in that regards.
I can play a male Khajiit Juggling Mage in TES. I can play a female Breton Courtesan of Dibella in TES. What the heck can I play in Gothic or Two Worlds? A guy on a generic fantasy mission? Gothic is good for what it is, but it's no TES; not at it's best and not at it's worst.
You know, I can be as critical of Zenimax's lawyer driven decisions to allow a torture mod but prevent linking to allegedly "adult" content as found in Daggerfall as any traditional CRPG gamer, but I won't praise an unplayable without a patch game like Two Worlds just to put Oblivion at the bottom of the list because I loath Bethesda. I'd rather damn them with faint praise when they do something right and let them know that they can do much better if they first convince the lawyers that the money goes with tradition and not just mainstreamer glitz.
Show me something right about Two Worlds? No TES game was so buggy at release that it could be finished in two minutes. No TES game had a world with only male NPCs, with only a male character and with an entire region without any quests, but just mobs of monsters to kill. Two Worlds aims higher than Oblivion in player consequences, but it falls short in not delivering half the hype the game got prior to release. Why is Bethsoft damned for their hype when other company's are still praised for theirs? Hype is what doesn't get into the game after all the promises are made. I'm tired of hype from all companies, especially where CRPGs are concerned.
I will give Gothic 3 a try to see if it's significantly better than Gothic 2. I was waiting for it to come down in price and get patched, just like I'm waiting for Shivering Isles to get fixed before I get the expansion that was not supposed to be. Well, Bethsoft learned that most gamers don't want the downloads one at a time, but want genuine value added content. I think they might do better with the next TES, and I hope that the guys who put out Two Worlds do a significant job of patching their mess and do better the next time around. There is no way I can see this as a good game, let alone a good CRPG. I can at least see Oblivion as a failed CRPG that still manages to be Battlespire 1 1/2 mated to Morrowind 1/2.
ricolikesrice said:
I only have experience with Gothic 2 in comparison to Morrowind, but I did not see a huge world where the dungeons were significantly further from the cities than they were in Morrowind. With the graphics improvements of Gothic 3, I'd guess the world wasn't much different in size than Oblivion.
I'll grant that Oblivion's Cyrodiil is too crowded, and if they'd had ship travel to another province that loaded another map, they might have managed a larger world. They could also have simply decided on a less cluttered region with fewer abandoned forts. Perhaps with some real forts that showed the Legion cared about what was happening in the Imperial province.
Prove to me that Gothic 3 or Two Worlds is more realistic, except in the linear sense. TES has always been a sandbox action RPG, even back in the days of Daggerfall, and the failure of Oblivion is in leaving behind the consequences of opposing guilds. Otherwise, it's a go wherever, do whatever game in the tradition of The Elder Scrolls.
The other games are much more linear. How does that create a believable world? The suspension of disbelief should not depend on a linear plot. As many people here claim, an RPG is as much about roleplaying as it is about story and a wider range of roleplaying is possible in even the worst of The Elder Scrolls (ie Oblivion) than in the best of the Gothic. Two Worlds seems to be even lamer than Gothic or Oblivion in that regards.
I can play a male Khajiit Juggling Mage in TES. I can play a female Breton Courtesan of Dibella in TES. What the heck can I play in Gothic or Two Worlds? A guy on a generic fantasy mission? Gothic is good for what it is, but it's no TES; not at it's best and not at it's worst.
You know, I can be as critical of Zenimax's lawyer driven decisions to allow a torture mod but prevent linking to allegedly "adult" content as found in Daggerfall as any traditional CRPG gamer, but I won't praise an unplayable without a patch game like Two Worlds just to put Oblivion at the bottom of the list because I loath Bethesda. I'd rather damn them with faint praise when they do something right and let them know that they can do much better if they first convince the lawyers that the money goes with tradition and not just mainstreamer glitz.
Show me something right about Two Worlds? No TES game was so buggy at release that it could be finished in two minutes. No TES game had a world with only male NPCs, with only a male character and with an entire region without any quests, but just mobs of monsters to kill. Two Worlds aims higher than Oblivion in player consequences, but it falls short in not delivering half the hype the game got prior to release. Why is Bethsoft damned for their hype when other company's are still praised for theirs? Hype is what doesn't get into the game after all the promises are made. I'm tired of hype from all companies, especially where CRPGs are concerned.
I will give Gothic 3 a try to see if it's significantly better than Gothic 2. I was waiting for it to come down in price and get patched, just like I'm waiting for Shivering Isles to get fixed before I get the expansion that was not supposed to be. Well, Bethsoft learned that most gamers don't want the downloads one at a time, but want genuine value added content. I think they might do better with the next TES, and I hope that the guys who put out Two Worlds do a significant job of patching their mess and do better the next time around. There is no way I can see this as a good game, let alone a good CRPG. I can at least see Oblivion as a failed CRPG that still manages to be Battlespire 1 1/2 mated to Morrowind 1/2.
Baphomet
Scholar
"Immersive" is ultimately a subjective term. For my mother, sewing and gardening are immersive activities. For my brother, who has a full frontal lobotomy, we're talking lolcats and drying paint. Oblivion is very immersive for me, but only after ripping bong hits.
Sir_Brennus
Scholar
Re: ....
That would've at least shown that they put some effort in this drek.
Yeah, you can be everything! And that is BAD because you can nearly be anything and everything at the same time. You can do whatever you want BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING. Oblivion is just an excercise in endless tedium.
Are you nuts? In which regard was Oblivion NOT stalwart linear? Is senseless exploring repetetive dungeons with leveled mobs non-linearity now? The main quest nearly as linear as Mage Knight Apocalypse. You can see that by counting the immortal characters. The sheer amount of them shows that you can't finish the game without follwing a linear line of very linear quests.
WTF?????!!!!
What does that mean? What kind of roleplaying? LARPing a character while riding your Tanke, erm sorry your Horse? Please give proof and try to stay at least remotly comprehensible.
Maybe it IS a different kind of game, because the designers WANTED it to be different?
Yeah, whatever. But what does it change in the game? How does your choice have an effect?
I am happy that Gothic is no TES game. So I get individual NPCs, varied quests and a personal involvment and motivation to carry on fighting (remember Gothic 1?). Where is that in Oblivion? I don't fucking care about the dead Emporer and his legacy, because the fucking invasion does not proceed. It stays in limbo forever, if I want it to be so.
Did you ever asked yourself why the designers of Fallout put the time limit for finding the water chip into the game? The feel of urgence is only present if real danger is lingering.
Fact check and reality check. You must be playing a different game. My TW works like a charm. If you want to play a broken game than play World of Chaos. Maybe you confused them... no, mmmh just a thought.
yipsl said:
That would've at least shown that they put some effort in this drek.
yipsl said:
Yeah, you can be everything! And that is BAD because you can nearly be anything and everything at the same time. You can do whatever you want BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING. Oblivion is just an excercise in endless tedium.
yipsl said:
Are you nuts? In which regard was Oblivion NOT stalwart linear? Is senseless exploring repetetive dungeons with leveled mobs non-linearity now? The main quest nearly as linear as Mage Knight Apocalypse. You can see that by counting the immortal characters. The sheer amount of them shows that you can't finish the game without follwing a linear line of very linear quests.
yipsl said:
WTF?????!!!!
yipsl said:
What does that mean? What kind of roleplaying? LARPing a character while riding your Tanke, erm sorry your Horse? Please give proof and try to stay at least remotly comprehensible.
yipsl said:
Maybe it IS a different kind of game, because the designers WANTED it to be different?
yipsl said:
Yeah, whatever. But what does it change in the game? How does your choice have an effect?
yipsl said:
I am happy that Gothic is no TES game. So I get individual NPCs, varied quests and a personal involvment and motivation to carry on fighting (remember Gothic 1?). Where is that in Oblivion? I don't fucking care about the dead Emporer and his legacy, because the fucking invasion does not proceed. It stays in limbo forever, if I want it to be so.
Did you ever asked yourself why the designers of Fallout put the time limit for finding the water chip into the game? The feel of urgence is only present if real danger is lingering.
Idiot said:
Fact check and reality check. You must be playing a different game. My TW works like a charm. If you want to play a broken game than play World of Chaos. Maybe you confused them... no, mmmh just a thought.
yipsl
Scholar
Re: ....
The difference is the way I roleplay them. The Juggling Mage always joins the Thieves Guild and the Mage Guild. He starts out dodgy and becomes a bit more religious as time goes by, usually joining the cult of Zenithar in Daggerfall, or the Temple in Morrowind (because he wants to subvert Morrowind province slavery from within). The Courtesan joins the House of Dibella and one of the political factions on the Iliac Bay (Daggerfall) or the Imperial Cult and the Mage Guild in Morrowind.
There is no reason for a Courtesan of Dibella in Oblivion because Oblivion guts the religious side of TES completely. It only shines in comparison to Two Worlds, which was my point, not in comparison to prior TES. That's why I consider Oblivion to be the successor to Battlespire with a bit of Morrowind roleplaying thrown in.
Anyone who calls the design of Oblivion dreck should also call the current state of Two Worlds dreck. You are playing a beta with Two Worlds, or at least an MMO wannabee that wanted to hook the single player CRPG gamer.
Sure, they crammed too much in Oblivion; and they mainstreamed two much. Yet, Two Worlds is just a bunch of MMO mobs to fight with game destroying bugs that can show up after two minutes of playing. Oblivion's game destroying bug takes 200 hours. Note that I do not consider Oblivion to be a great CRPG. I consider it better than Two Worlds as I have seen it described.
A sandbox CRPG is one type of game within the CRPG genre, and anyone who does not like that style of game should not be playing TES, not even Daggerfall. I control myself and do not become the head of every guild I join and I wish they'd remove that feature from the series, but it does not break the game for me simply because it's there as an option.
Oblivion was very linear in comparison to Morrowind and Daggerfall. It does not seem to be as linear as Two Worlds. I can actually play the game and not do the MQ, and it does not bother me that there are unkillable (until quests are fulfilled) NPCs. That's because I don't judge a game by the number of NPCs I can kill. When I do kill an NPC, I want there to be in game motivation.
For example, I kill the Imperial wife of the ruler in Leyawiin. I do that when she's no longer protected by a "crown" and my in game motivation is that she tortures Argonians for fun. I generally kill her in a stealth way from a distance when she's out for a walk. I also will try to kill the vampire count of Skingrad this time around, if he becomes vulnerable too. So far, I know he's linked to the Mage Guild and the MQ, but I don't know if he's linked to other guild quests.
Otherwise, I do not kill NPCs, not even obnoxious ones. It's just that I hate torture and I hated the fact that the "grey lady" vampire was operating in his castle with the cooperation of the count and the guards. What really gets me riled about Oblivion is that the suits of that company hate mild nudity but love torture and senseless violence because their marketing focus groups tell them that's what gamers want most in a game.
Read the above comments I made to the other poster. If that's LARPing to you, then so be it. At least I have more choices of character type to LARP than you do in Two Worlds, or in the Gothic series, for that matter.
What do you call roleplaying? Micromanaging stats?
There is nothing wrong with difference. The genre of CRPG can benefit from different style of RPGs. They do not all have to be identical. They should attempt to be creative and original, but few games are that nowadays.
I'd prefer more urgency in Oblivion. I think they can have a sandbox and still have the urgency. The world should become destroyed if you do not proceed on the MQ, yet I'd like the idea of not having to do the MQ. A fan mod for Morrowind had the guy in the ship be the hero and you started the game hearing about how he defeated Dagoth Ur.
I'd love to be able to take the amulet of Kings to Jauffrey and say "you take care of it, I'm not the hero type". Then, I could do everything else and watch the world to see if it survives or implodes. Keep in mind that other games make you do the MQ too. Bethesda found a half assed way to offer choice in the MQ, I'd prefer they find a reasonable way next time around.
Also, I don't think the Fighters Guild would be so worried about that other company's competition, or the Mage Guild would be so worried about the lamed down King of Worms if there was a Daedra invasion going on. Yes, Oblivion has design problems, but if you think they smell like dreck, then don't claim that Two Worlds smells like roses.
As for Gothic, I only played Gothic 2 part way through. I'll give Gothic 3 a try and might even look for Gothic. I might even replay Gothic 2, but I hate the combat system even more than I hate the one in Oblivion. I got used to the one in Oblivion, but when I couldn't find the manual for Gothic 2, I couldn't figure the controls out and the game didn't seem to have an in game menu giving the keyboard controls or to remap anything.
Why people love to hate Bethesda's errors in design when ignoring errors in other game's design is beyond me. If Bethsoft had not been bought by Zenimax, we'd just have Daggerfall to fondly remember. That would be fine for most, but I think there are people who must have a game to hate in the genre they love and if it wasn't Morrowind or Oblivion, then I wonder what you'd choose?
I never played Fallout or Fallout 2. I don't like post apocalyptic all that much. I did play Wasteland on the C64.
I am not playing Two Worlds, I'm relying on comments by people who are playing it. I think it has serious design issues, game breaking bugs and large areas empty of anything but mobs to fight, just like many poorly designed MMO's.
If you're playing Two Worlds and liking it, then you are a beta tester who paid for the privelege. I hope they get a game out, with patches and expansions, that makes it worthwhile for the rest of us.
IMHO, Oblivion is a fine successor to Battlespire with a bit of Morrowind thrown in. It's no Daggerfall. Whether it's better than the Gothic series depends on the type of RPG people like. I love TES and don't mind sandbox RPGs. I wish Oblivion were better, but it's not as bad as Two Worlds and it's different from Gothic 2. I preferred Morrowind to Gothic 2 in plot and in player choices. That does not mean that I think the Gothic games are dreck, even if your choice makes you say that Oblivion is dreck.
Kraszu said:
The difference is the way I roleplay them. The Juggling Mage always joins the Thieves Guild and the Mage Guild. He starts out dodgy and becomes a bit more religious as time goes by, usually joining the cult of Zenithar in Daggerfall, or the Temple in Morrowind (because he wants to subvert Morrowind province slavery from within). The Courtesan joins the House of Dibella and one of the political factions on the Iliac Bay (Daggerfall) or the Imperial Cult and the Mage Guild in Morrowind.
There is no reason for a Courtesan of Dibella in Oblivion because Oblivion guts the religious side of TES completely. It only shines in comparison to Two Worlds, which was my point, not in comparison to prior TES. That's why I consider Oblivion to be the successor to Battlespire with a bit of Morrowind roleplaying thrown in.
Sir_Brennus said:
Anyone who calls the design of Oblivion dreck should also call the current state of Two Worlds dreck. You are playing a beta with Two Worlds, or at least an MMO wannabee that wanted to hook the single player CRPG gamer.
Sure, they crammed too much in Oblivion; and they mainstreamed two much. Yet, Two Worlds is just a bunch of MMO mobs to fight with game destroying bugs that can show up after two minutes of playing. Oblivion's game destroying bug takes 200 hours. Note that I do not consider Oblivion to be a great CRPG. I consider it better than Two Worlds as I have seen it described.
Sir_Brennus said:
A sandbox CRPG is one type of game within the CRPG genre, and anyone who does not like that style of game should not be playing TES, not even Daggerfall. I control myself and do not become the head of every guild I join and I wish they'd remove that feature from the series, but it does not break the game for me simply because it's there as an option.
Sir_Brennus said:
Oblivion was very linear in comparison to Morrowind and Daggerfall. It does not seem to be as linear as Two Worlds. I can actually play the game and not do the MQ, and it does not bother me that there are unkillable (until quests are fulfilled) NPCs. That's because I don't judge a game by the number of NPCs I can kill. When I do kill an NPC, I want there to be in game motivation.
For example, I kill the Imperial wife of the ruler in Leyawiin. I do that when she's no longer protected by a "crown" and my in game motivation is that she tortures Argonians for fun. I generally kill her in a stealth way from a distance when she's out for a walk. I also will try to kill the vampire count of Skingrad this time around, if he becomes vulnerable too. So far, I know he's linked to the Mage Guild and the MQ, but I don't know if he's linked to other guild quests.
Otherwise, I do not kill NPCs, not even obnoxious ones. It's just that I hate torture and I hated the fact that the "grey lady" vampire was operating in his castle with the cooperation of the count and the guards. What really gets me riled about Oblivion is that the suits of that company hate mild nudity but love torture and senseless violence because their marketing focus groups tell them that's what gamers want most in a game.
Sir_Brennus said:
Read the above comments I made to the other poster. If that's LARPing to you, then so be it. At least I have more choices of character type to LARP than you do in Two Worlds, or in the Gothic series, for that matter.
What do you call roleplaying? Micromanaging stats?
Sir_Brennus said:
There is nothing wrong with difference. The genre of CRPG can benefit from different style of RPGs. They do not all have to be identical. They should attempt to be creative and original, but few games are that nowadays.
Sir_Brennus said:
I'd prefer more urgency in Oblivion. I think they can have a sandbox and still have the urgency. The world should become destroyed if you do not proceed on the MQ, yet I'd like the idea of not having to do the MQ. A fan mod for Morrowind had the guy in the ship be the hero and you started the game hearing about how he defeated Dagoth Ur.
I'd love to be able to take the amulet of Kings to Jauffrey and say "you take care of it, I'm not the hero type". Then, I could do everything else and watch the world to see if it survives or implodes. Keep in mind that other games make you do the MQ too. Bethesda found a half assed way to offer choice in the MQ, I'd prefer they find a reasonable way next time around.
Also, I don't think the Fighters Guild would be so worried about that other company's competition, or the Mage Guild would be so worried about the lamed down King of Worms if there was a Daedra invasion going on. Yes, Oblivion has design problems, but if you think they smell like dreck, then don't claim that Two Worlds smells like roses.
As for Gothic, I only played Gothic 2 part way through. I'll give Gothic 3 a try and might even look for Gothic. I might even replay Gothic 2, but I hate the combat system even more than I hate the one in Oblivion. I got used to the one in Oblivion, but when I couldn't find the manual for Gothic 2, I couldn't figure the controls out and the game didn't seem to have an in game menu giving the keyboard controls or to remap anything.
Why people love to hate Bethesda's errors in design when ignoring errors in other game's design is beyond me. If Bethsoft had not been bought by Zenimax, we'd just have Daggerfall to fondly remember. That would be fine for most, but I think there are people who must have a game to hate in the genre they love and if it wasn't Morrowind or Oblivion, then I wonder what you'd choose?
Sir_Brennus said:
I never played Fallout or Fallout 2. I don't like post apocalyptic all that much. I did play Wasteland on the C64.
Sir_Brennus said:
I am not playing Two Worlds, I'm relying on comments by people who are playing it. I think it has serious design issues, game breaking bugs and large areas empty of anything but mobs to fight, just like many poorly designed MMO's.
If you're playing Two Worlds and liking it, then you are a beta tester who paid for the privelege. I hope they get a game out, with patches and expansions, that makes it worthwhile for the rest of us.
IMHO, Oblivion is a fine successor to Battlespire with a bit of Morrowind thrown in. It's no Daggerfall. Whether it's better than the Gothic series depends on the type of RPG people like. I love TES and don't mind sandbox RPGs. I wish Oblivion were better, but it's not as bad as Two Worlds and it's different from Gothic 2. I preferred Morrowind to Gothic 2 in plot and in player choices. That does not mean that I think the Gothic games are dreck, even if your choice makes you say that Oblivion is dreck.
ricolikesrice
Arcane
- Joined
- May 11, 2007
- Messages
- 1,231
...
if you like sandbox games why not play MMORPGs ?
the funny thing about oblivion is that its basically the same as every mmorpg, just offline and without the pvp / endgame content.
-want a lot of different races/furries to chose ? play WoW, vanguard, eq, whatever
-want a huge world to explore ? play WoW, vanguard, eq, whatever
-want hundreds/thousands of quests that have no multiple paths ? play WoW, vanguard, eq, whatever
-want lots of combat, leveling and getting gear ? play WoW, vanguard, eq, whatever
-want to gain reputation with different factions ? you should know the drill right now
-etc etc
the only difference is that in MMORPGs you are not alone in your sandbox, but if you dont want to, you are never forced to play with other people.
especially all the new MMORPGs have a focus on beeing able to get to max level without ever beeing forced to group or grind, i.e. you can play them the way you play oblivion and still get max level (although it will take longer then power-grinding )
its what i m doing if i want a sandbox game, i get a MMORPG and play it to max level, then repeat with a totally different class/race untill i seen most of the world.
i dont bother (anymore:p)with sucking up to any guilds to get phat loots and sell my social life, but if you play them just till level cap you would be suprised how much they trash oblivion into the ground and can even be fun (if you like that type of game)
lets talk WoW, because its the most popular one:
getting to lvl 60 took me roughly 16 ingame days ( = 384 hours ) , over half a year i think. maybe 30 of those almost 400 hours were spent in the boring "grind" and only in the last levels (58,59 i think) since then quests to level up with became more rare - all the rest was the same shit you do in oblivion all day: explore, pick up quests, kill stuff.
the differences to oblivion:
-the world is bigger and most importantly: FAR FAR FAR better designed. no zone looks the same, the love to detail makes it so WoWs outdated engine with comic looks still totally rips the soulless next gen generic oblivion landscape into pieces.
-the whole leveling & stats system is by miles better. you really look forward to get certain levels as you get new abilities that open up new tactics where oblivion is the same old shit from lvl 1 to whatever is the max.
-you also get far more different items not only in stats but looks.
-the combat is more entertaining as well since you have plenty of special abilities and plenty of NPCs that have unique combat styles. more or less every fight in oblivion is the same, hurt enemy, get hurt, kill. a tough enemy in oblivion just means you have to take X health/mana potions during the fight.
a tough enemy in wow means you have to use some tactics and your abilities to the best.
WoW s combat is harldy nuclear science, but compared to oblivions it sure looks like it.
-you get plenty of factions to work for, and when you gain reputation with them it has more meaning then in oblivion. new crafting recipes, new items, etc. sure, it only pays off from a "loot" perspective but thats still more then in oblivion.
-there s tons of quests which are just as bad as oblivions. some even worse since they are simple kill x quests. in neither game you have multiple paths etc.... however funnily enough some quests in WoW CAN be completed differently. i remember with my rogue at late levels i was doing elite quests which are normally designed for a group, but the rogue could pull em off with stealth and clever use of tactics/items. no cheating involved.
blah blah, before i sound too much like a WoW faggot which i already might do right now...... i m merely saying sandbox games can have their own charm, just like hack n slashs. and if you hate WoWs comic style, replace everything i said with vanguard or EQ2 or one of the dozen other games. maybe not all match up to wow, but they certainly almost all beat oblivion.
so there s 5+ sandbox games that own oblivion in every department, theres even more hack n slash games that own oblivion in every department...... why couldnt they do like they fucking promised and deliver a good cRPG instead ? or at least blend sandbox with cRPG elements ?
instead they made an offline MMORPG for people to dumb to realize they re doing basically the same things as in a MMORPG, just a lot worse presented.
but how that does connect to TW ?
i dunno, i guess it somehow explains how TW s makers decided to rush an MP part in.
-2 years ago: hey lets make an oblivion killer game, lets copy everything but do it better
-half a year ago: guys, i just realized that oblivion is nothing different than a shitty MMORPG but just offline. quickly get a multiplayer mode working !
my experiences with TW so far been that it could have become a great action rpg, but it didnt manage to. but its not really shit either as an action RPG - its mediocre and somewhat enjoyable.
i dont like the flak it gets however, since this game DOES manage one thing oblivion didnt: beeing at least partly entertaining in one aspect (hack n slash).
oblivion was neither a mediocre hack n slash, nor a mediocre "sandbox", nor even remotely a cRPG.... it was shit at everything but having a nice graphics engine (that wasnt well used however seeing the lackluster world)
i just wish every game labeled RPG would actually be a real RPG these days.....
not that i dislike a well done hack n slash or sandbox game.... but there s already plenty out of those in the MMORPG sector, and you have to admit: in terms of sandbox and hack n slash MMORPGs totally rape their offline competition.
if you like sandbox games why not play MMORPGs ?
the funny thing about oblivion is that its basically the same as every mmorpg, just offline and without the pvp / endgame content.
-want a lot of different races/furries to chose ? play WoW, vanguard, eq, whatever
-want a huge world to explore ? play WoW, vanguard, eq, whatever
-want hundreds/thousands of quests that have no multiple paths ? play WoW, vanguard, eq, whatever
-want lots of combat, leveling and getting gear ? play WoW, vanguard, eq, whatever
-want to gain reputation with different factions ? you should know the drill right now
-etc etc
the only difference is that in MMORPGs you are not alone in your sandbox, but if you dont want to, you are never forced to play with other people.
especially all the new MMORPGs have a focus on beeing able to get to max level without ever beeing forced to group or grind, i.e. you can play them the way you play oblivion and still get max level (although it will take longer then power-grinding )
its what i m doing if i want a sandbox game, i get a MMORPG and play it to max level, then repeat with a totally different class/race untill i seen most of the world.
i dont bother (anymore:p)with sucking up to any guilds to get phat loots and sell my social life, but if you play them just till level cap you would be suprised how much they trash oblivion into the ground and can even be fun (if you like that type of game)
lets talk WoW, because its the most popular one:
getting to lvl 60 took me roughly 16 ingame days ( = 384 hours ) , over half a year i think. maybe 30 of those almost 400 hours were spent in the boring "grind" and only in the last levels (58,59 i think) since then quests to level up with became more rare - all the rest was the same shit you do in oblivion all day: explore, pick up quests, kill stuff.
the differences to oblivion:
-the world is bigger and most importantly: FAR FAR FAR better designed. no zone looks the same, the love to detail makes it so WoWs outdated engine with comic looks still totally rips the soulless next gen generic oblivion landscape into pieces.
-the whole leveling & stats system is by miles better. you really look forward to get certain levels as you get new abilities that open up new tactics where oblivion is the same old shit from lvl 1 to whatever is the max.
-you also get far more different items not only in stats but looks.
-the combat is more entertaining as well since you have plenty of special abilities and plenty of NPCs that have unique combat styles. more or less every fight in oblivion is the same, hurt enemy, get hurt, kill. a tough enemy in oblivion just means you have to take X health/mana potions during the fight.
a tough enemy in wow means you have to use some tactics and your abilities to the best.
WoW s combat is harldy nuclear science, but compared to oblivions it sure looks like it.
-you get plenty of factions to work for, and when you gain reputation with them it has more meaning then in oblivion. new crafting recipes, new items, etc. sure, it only pays off from a "loot" perspective but thats still more then in oblivion.
-there s tons of quests which are just as bad as oblivions. some even worse since they are simple kill x quests. in neither game you have multiple paths etc.... however funnily enough some quests in WoW CAN be completed differently. i remember with my rogue at late levels i was doing elite quests which are normally designed for a group, but the rogue could pull em off with stealth and clever use of tactics/items. no cheating involved.
blah blah, before i sound too much like a WoW faggot which i already might do right now...... i m merely saying sandbox games can have their own charm, just like hack n slashs. and if you hate WoWs comic style, replace everything i said with vanguard or EQ2 or one of the dozen other games. maybe not all match up to wow, but they certainly almost all beat oblivion.
so there s 5+ sandbox games that own oblivion in every department, theres even more hack n slash games that own oblivion in every department...... why couldnt they do like they fucking promised and deliver a good cRPG instead ? or at least blend sandbox with cRPG elements ?
instead they made an offline MMORPG for people to dumb to realize they re doing basically the same things as in a MMORPG, just a lot worse presented.
but how that does connect to TW ?
i dunno, i guess it somehow explains how TW s makers decided to rush an MP part in.
-2 years ago: hey lets make an oblivion killer game, lets copy everything but do it better
-half a year ago: guys, i just realized that oblivion is nothing different than a shitty MMORPG but just offline. quickly get a multiplayer mode working !
my experiences with TW so far been that it could have become a great action rpg, but it didnt manage to. but its not really shit either as an action RPG - its mediocre and somewhat enjoyable.
i dont like the flak it gets however, since this game DOES manage one thing oblivion didnt: beeing at least partly entertaining in one aspect (hack n slash).
oblivion was neither a mediocre hack n slash, nor a mediocre "sandbox", nor even remotely a cRPG.... it was shit at everything but having a nice graphics engine (that wasnt well used however seeing the lackluster world)
i just wish every game labeled RPG would actually be a real RPG these days.....
not that i dislike a well done hack n slash or sandbox game.... but there s already plenty out of those in the MMORPG sector, and you have to admit: in terms of sandbox and hack n slash MMORPGs totally rape their offline competition.
franc kaos
Liturgist
Re: ....
At one point in the game I transformed into one of them giant dodoes and freely roamed the map, being ignored by orcs but chased by wolves (it's how I got into the besieged castle far too many levels below what I needed to be). I also followed a path into a dragons lair thru an Orc encampment which was pretty awesome.
I changed into a beast just below the shadow thing and cleared out a huge forest area before coming across a shadow beast who ripped me a new one. I think I had one hit point left before making it to safety, changing back to human, glugging a healing potion and saving the game (both options are barred to you in animal form).
I was plugging away at an Orc from a high vantagepoint, safe in the knowledge he couldn't get to me, and the fucker finally found a way up and smacked me to oblivion (after a long sword fight when I thought I might best him, but adrenaline took over and instead of fighting properly I panicked & began madly clicking the mouse).
All in all, I think Gothic2 has given me some of the most intense gaming moments since system shock and Daggerfall where you're literally crapping your pants trying to get through
Immersion, to me, is when you forget you are doing something and become, at an instinctual level, a part of that something - whether it be knitting, driving or playing a game.
Actually, the swordfighting in Gothic2 (once you get used to it), is absolutely brilliant, you really can hold your own against an enemy several levels above you (maybe not beat, but at least wear down some, then run away). When I started the game I too hated the system, fought against it, but slowly learned how to use it. Truly worth trying again...yipsl said:
At one point in the game I transformed into one of them giant dodoes and freely roamed the map, being ignored by orcs but chased by wolves (it's how I got into the besieged castle far too many levels below what I needed to be). I also followed a path into a dragons lair thru an Orc encampment which was pretty awesome.
I changed into a beast just below the shadow thing and cleared out a huge forest area before coming across a shadow beast who ripped me a new one. I think I had one hit point left before making it to safety, changing back to human, glugging a healing potion and saving the game (both options are barred to you in animal form).
I was plugging away at an Orc from a high vantagepoint, safe in the knowledge he couldn't get to me, and the fucker finally found a way up and smacked me to oblivion (after a long sword fight when I thought I might best him, but adrenaline took over and instead of fighting properly I panicked & began madly clicking the mouse).
All in all, I think Gothic2 has given me some of the most intense gaming moments since system shock and Daggerfall where you're literally crapping your pants trying to get through
Immersion, to me, is when you forget you are doing something and become, at an instinctual level, a part of that something - whether it be knitting, driving or playing a game.
about that Oblivion being offline MMO. It's not so far from the truth. Just look at most sandbox game like Sims series. THAT is the ultra sandbox game with your own motivation and some semblance of consequences. I just wish there's a 'kill this sim' option where my character can just pick up a kitchen knife and stab a sleeping guest, but otherwise it's working as advertised.
But Oblivion? Consequences mean shit. The world doesn't react to you in rational manner. How can you be the arena grand champion within 15 minutes of leaving the tutorial? Even Sims 2 doesn't allow you get CEO in less than 2 days.
The emperor is dead, daedra portals are opening everywhere. Yet they never attacked.
You lost your job. The mail box is full of bills. If you can't pay up in 24 hours, the repo man will come and take your furniture away. You can sell your car and pay off the bills for now or try to find another job.
See the difference in a working sandbox?
I wanted to be a courtesan in Cyrodiil. I can't do much except getting a good discount. I have to 'pretend' that I somehow charmed that fella with some retarded sliding minigame. That is just terrible. I can't make people fight for me either. And in the end I still have to fight through every single encounter in the main campaign. No diplomacy is used.
I wanted to be rich courtesan in Simsville, I dress the girl in a nice dress, cook the fella nice pork chops for dinner. Invite him for overnight sex, then marry him. After that I give him a swimming pool accident. Tadaaa I'm rich.
See the diffference between a good sandbox and a failed MMORPG attempt?
But Oblivion? Consequences mean shit. The world doesn't react to you in rational manner. How can you be the arena grand champion within 15 minutes of leaving the tutorial? Even Sims 2 doesn't allow you get CEO in less than 2 days.
The emperor is dead, daedra portals are opening everywhere. Yet they never attacked.
You lost your job. The mail box is full of bills. If you can't pay up in 24 hours, the repo man will come and take your furniture away. You can sell your car and pay off the bills for now or try to find another job.
See the difference in a working sandbox?
I wanted to be a courtesan in Cyrodiil. I can't do much except getting a good discount. I have to 'pretend' that I somehow charmed that fella with some retarded sliding minigame. That is just terrible. I can't make people fight for me either. And in the end I still have to fight through every single encounter in the main campaign. No diplomacy is used.
I wanted to be rich courtesan in Simsville, I dress the girl in a nice dress, cook the fella nice pork chops for dinner. Invite him for overnight sex, then marry him. After that I give him a swimming pool accident. Tadaaa I'm rich.
See the diffference between a good sandbox and a failed MMORPG attempt?
Re: ....
I've never heard anyone refer to Half Life 2 as action RPG. Proof or STFU.yipsl said:
I understand you know nothing about Gothic3, which doesn't seem to prevent you from talking about it.
That isn't playing, that's pretending. Nice to see how you spice up TES with your imagination while describing Gothic's different character builds as "a guy".
Thankfully.
You free-thinking hippie muppet, you! Good thing you can't be critical of Bethesda's game design or you'd practically be a communist!
Re: ....
You can join mage guild in gothic2 the only difference is smaller scope, less quest. If you wan to be a mage in G2 you better plan it from start of luck of xp will bite you, also joining mage guild prevent you from being good fighter and becoming fighter will not allow you to use mgaic other then 1 time scrolls. There is group that can learn you thief skills but joining them don't limit you in big factions.
The difference between larping and role playing is when you do something that have no outcome on game like when you choose to not join guild that don't fit your role, game should limit you becouse role playing is overcoming somebody weakness and using his straights not pretending that he got weakness that fit your role, you remove "game" element from "role playing game" then.
yipsl said:
You can join mage guild in gothic2 the only difference is smaller scope, less quest. If you wan to be a mage in G2 you better plan it from start of luck of xp will bite you, also joining mage guild prevent you from being good fighter and becoming fighter will not allow you to use mgaic other then 1 time scrolls. There is group that can learn you thief skills but joining them don't limit you in big factions.
The difference between larping and role playing is when you do something that have no outcome on game like when you choose to not join guild that don't fit your role, game should limit you becouse role playing is overcoming somebody weakness and using his straights not pretending that he got weakness that fit your role, you remove "game" element from "role playing game" then.
yipsl
Scholar
RK47 said:
I never said Oblivion was great. It was basically Battlespire 2 with a bit of Morrowind thrown in. They totally ignored what made Daggerfall great. I said Oblivion was a good game compared to Two Worlds and anyone who says that Oblivion is shit but Two Worlds is good really misses the point.
A world with only males is not believable. Adding 5 females in a patch is not believable. A world with only one character choice is not believable. It removes a major part of roleplaying, regardless of whether some people here want to diss that as LARPing. A game that has a game breaking bug that can show up within two minutes of starting the game is not a good game. It's a beta test that you're being charged for.
So, diss Oblivion all you want, but don't show yourselves to be total idiots when you also refuse to diss Two Worlds. Did you have fun playing Two Worlds, if you were lucky enough to miss out on the game breaking bugs? Well, many mainstreamers have fun playing Oblivion. I can even suspend disbelief and have fun when I remind myself it's as close to Daggerfall as this pygmy generation of publishers, developers and gamers can get.
If people really aspired to Daggerfall, then you'd see other companies stepping up to the plate with a game that out does Oblivion in being what classic Elder Scrolls was -- a great single player action RPG with consequences and sandbox play besides. Instead, the other companies either try to copy Bethsoft's current mainstreaming, or they try to copy WoW, or they try for a bit of both.
I just don't see anything in Two Worlds from what I've read from people who've played it and encountered it's barren landscapes full of mobs and broken quests that really makes it into a good CRPG. If it's being called a good CRPG by reviewers and fans alike, then they've lowered their expectations to the same degree that many TES fans have lowered our expectations regarding what Bethsoft can and will deliver in a current generation game.
Shivering Isles makes me think that Bethsoft might get their act together for TES 5, that they might not have a generic world but might actually have every NPC voice acted (badly or not, I'd rather hear bad than to hear the same voice for each orc or each Breton). They might ditch the "be king of all the guilds with no moral consequences", while still keeping the core of Daggerfall sandbox play.
If they don't it will be because they go online with a lame single player experience as Two Worlds has done. At any rate, i doubt they'll tolerate a Daggerfall style booby or two, this is quasi-facist corporate America after all. I'm almost tempted to buy Halo 3 before the alleged nudity there is taken out, but it's probably their master sarge and who wants to see that? Me, I'd rather see a Better Bodies chick walking around my monitor screen anyday.
We will see. At any rate, Oblivion is not as broken as Two Worlds and I'm not going to buy Two Worlds until they get it fixed. Just like I'm not buying Shivering Isles until that expansion's bug is fixed.
Claw said:
I do admit that in the quote you cite, I mistyped an r, which is above the the f. Read it as "Dark Messiah of Half Life Too". I would not refer to Half Life 2 as "Half Life Too". That would make no grammatical sense.
I always mock Dark Messiah as a "Half Life Too" because I want a real Might and Magic game. I've been playing Might and Magic CRPGs since World of Xeen, and I enjoy the series. I had hopes that Ubisoft would not drop the ball on that one. They did a decent enough job with Heroes of Might and Magic 5, but such a lousy job with Dark Messiah.
I mentioned in another post that I looked at the Dark Messiah of Might and Magic box at Fry's. It was not only in the RPG section next to Morrowind, Oblivion and even the Diablo 2 Battle Chest, but it was next to WoW etc. The game box had a blurb from a review calling it one of the best action RPGs of the year, so yes, there are people out there in the industry and the game press considering it an action RPG.
You also miss the point that I'm making fun of Dark Messiah's marketing by calling it Dark Messiah of Half Life Too (as in it's a fantasy Half Life 2, being based on Valve's engine and being a first person magical shooter). I guess the humor went above your head?
As for Gothic 3, I've heard the series has gone downhill from Gothic the way TES has gone downhill from Daggerfall, which was a great improvement to Arena -- which I started replaying today, via Dosbox and using the Arena CD so I can hear Ria Silmane's "with you has died our last best hope...".
Still, I'll give Gothic 3 a try in the fall, I think the bugs are fixed by now and I hope it doesn't have Star Force, like so many other European games do. I don't know what it is about Europeans and stealing games. I'd rather not play a game than to have Star Force mess with my DVD-RW drivers.
Gothic 2 was described as more linear than Morrowind. It had some features that were much better. I liked the way NPCs would tell you to sheath your weapon, and it had more consequences. I just lost the manual and couldn't figure out the combat system I was just getting used to. I'll see if I can still play it, but I'm thinking of not installing the budget version I got years ago and getting the version that has the expansion. That way, I can get a new manual.
I do admit that I prefer first person views in CRPGS. That is why I love both TES and Might and Magic. No one has done a commercial party based CRPG in awhile and the competitors to TES have gone the third person console character route, or else they've gone the fog of war small unit tactics mishegoss that was adapted by Obsidian to their games.
Yes, I did play Baldurs Gate and finally installed Baldurs Gate 2 to give it a try and see how evil Imoen becomes, but I really prefer a first person immersion into the world during exploration. Heck, I even prefer the old school first person exploration with third person combat screen of Betrayal at Krondor to the new third person combat in most CRPGs.
Gods, don't play vanilla Gothic 2. I made that mistake. It's too fucking easy. I did a little leveling up in the first chapter, and it threw the balance off completely. By the time I got to the big bad guys(tm), they all died like pansies. I beat the last boss with one spell (Reduce Monster) and two sword slashes.
Night of the Raven is required to make the game fun, and that's all there is to it.
Night of the Raven is required to make the game fun, and that's all there is to it.
Elwro
Arcane
It still is weirdly balanced in the endgame, when 99% of opponents (including the last one) are of no danger, but one or two undead lords are more difficult to fight than any of the Huge Beasts; at least that's my impression after finishing it with a
Hunter.
I'd recommend finishing vanilla G2 once and than playing G2+NotR as a different faction.
Hunter.
I'd recommend finishing vanilla G2 once and than playing G2+NotR as a different faction.
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