Tyranny Pre-Release Thread

[Roguey]

Still more will be just OK: morally neutral people whose work has no net good or bad effect on the world. Games journalists, for example.

Biased.

Why is this a good thing? Because a), it means more details of Tyranny’s story can be kept as surprises,

Um, the detail's of PoE's story were kept a secret, much to its detriment. It's usually publisher-funded games that blab about a bunch of details beforehand.

 

[Trashos]

Now, that's what I call Passion and Ambition.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Quoting this from the Obsidian forums. We're discussing PoE, but it also applies to Tyranny - I'm very curious if combat mechanics will see any improvement there, relative to what I consider bad combat mechanics in PoE.
https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86684-mechanics-the-big-attack-speed-conundrum/#entry1809086

Obsidian has overcomplicated things bringing the attack/recovery confusion to a whole new level. Mechanics should generally be straight-forward and transparent to the player.

30 minutes with the Backer Beta gave me the same opinion which I still hold now when I have over 160 hours with the full game. It's an interesting game largely in spite of its combat system.

When players have to decompile and look through game code just to figure out how core combat mechanics work, you know that... things are not rosey.

 

[Bonerbill]

Quoting this from the Obsidian forums. We're discussing PoE, but it also applies to Tyranny - I'm very curious if combat mechanics will see any improvement there, relative to what I consider bad combat mechanics in PoE.
https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86684-mechanics-the-big-attack-speed-conundrum/#entry1809086

When players have to decompile and look through game code just to figure out how core combat mechanics work, you know that... things are not rosey.

The only players who care about that shat is mix-maxers. Nobody else cares how AS is calculated.

 

[Maxwell's Demon]

The only players who care about that shat is mix-maxers. Nobody else cares how AS is calculated.

How can you play a game if you don't even know the rules?

 

[Roguey]

How can you play a game if you don't even know the rules?

Everyone does. Back in 2011, Josh said he's implemented broken things that players didn't notice because there was no external statistic reflection.

 

[Maxwell's Demon]

That's less playing a game and more stumbling blindly through the dark.

 

[Prime Junta]

How can you play a game if you don't even know the rules?

Intuition developed through trial and error. Like life. Damn thing doesn't come with a rulebook either.

 

[AwesomeButton]

The only players who care about that shat is mix-maxers. Nobody else cares how AS is calculated.

Nobody cares how an RPG's rules work. Mkay.

This is simply not true. I want challenging combat where I have to pay attention to game rules. Pillars is piss easy, I only play on PotD because of the defense and accuracy bonuses to enemies, but even on PotD i don't min-max. I play with stock NPCs and I don't equip gear if I decide it doesn't suit the character. I wouldn't put the +3 intellect helmet on Aloth just because of the bonus when I think it looks silly.

So, no, not only min-maxers care about how the rules work. But even if only they cared, that doesn't mean that hiding the rules is justified.

The majority of players may be kids and infantiles, and the game may be too easy in order for them to ever pay attention to the rules. But this wasn't the design goal. The design goal was that people should care about the rules. The result is a grossly over-engineered system which still doesn't manage to pose a difficulty because difficulty doesn't mesh with "Every build should be viable".

 

[Maxwell's Demon]

Intuition developed through trial and error. Like life. Damn thing doesn't come with a rulebook either.

Life isn't a game. Life is a sandbox -- and you're forced to play.

 

[Mustawd]

Intuition developed through trial and error. Like life. Damn thing doesn't come with a rulebook either.

Life isn't a game. Life is a sandbox -- and you're forced to play.

Life isn't a sandbox. Life is an endless runner game - you'll die eventually no matter what you do.

 

[Kev Inkline]

I'll crosspost (from the news thread, in case someone missed it) an excerpt of the original version of the story here as well, since I think this is important, and you had this nice logo here in place already:

Cutting off his own speech, Chris Trap halted just outside the perimeter. He sniffed, turning his gaze to each of his red-clad coders in turn.

“Something’s wrong,” he said. “I smell at least one spilled latte among you stinking mongrels.” He turned to Josh Trap with an implied question. Her binder of was still out, and his attention drew to it like an air bubble to the middle of a spirit level. After all, tribal knowledge only goes so far and all standards documentation needs to be regularly reviewed.

The silence lengthened. Josh Trap swept her gaze around the circle of cubicles one last time, equally prepared to execute a plan or let the matter drop.

Anyone else?

A stooped-over coder with a body like a siege tower lifted his head to regard Josh. His hands up to his elbows were still red from an earlier burrito that day. His brow sloped over tiny eyes that twinkled with determination.

Josh leaned forward to listen. Bear Tim hadn’t spoken to anyone since the start of the Kickstart campaign. He was a man of few words who drove a Prius, which she could respect as an environmentally conscious woman.

“We fire him,” he said. “We fire him because no fun allowed. If he can’t write meaningless infodumps to complement dull gameplay, then he’s no boss of mine.”

...

You’re boss now, she signed, letting her fingers do the work in the absence of her ruler and pencil.

He nodded, hiding any reluctance if he felt it. “If I must. You coordinate the documentation, though. I can give them a few recipes, but I don’t got a mind for thinking gameplay balance.”

 

[Rostere]

Cutting off his own speech, Chris Trap halted just outside the perimeter. He sniffed, turning his gaze to each of his red-clad coders in turn.

“Something’s wrong,” he said. “I smell at least one spilled latte among you stinking mongrels.” He turned to Josh Trap with an implied question. Her binder of was still out, and his attention drew to it like an air bubble to the middle of a spirit level. After all, tribal knowledge only goes so far and all standards documentation needs to be regularly reviewed.

The silence lengthened. Josh Trap swept her gaze around the circle of cubicles one last time, equally prepared to execute a plan or let the matter drop.

Anyone else?

A stooped-over coder with a body like a siege tower lifted his head to regard Josh. His hands up to his elbows were still red from an earlier burrito that day. His brow sloped over tiny eyes that twinkled with determination.

Josh leaned forward to listen. Bear Tim hadn’t spoken to anyone since the start of the Kickstart campaign. He was a man of few words who drove a Prius, which she could respect as an environmentally conscious woman.

“We fire him,” he said. “We fire him because no fun allowed. If he can’t write meaningless infodumps to complement dull gameplay, then he’s no boss of mine.”

...

You’re boss now, she signed, letting her fingers do the work in the absence of her ruler and pencil.

He nodded, hiding any reluctance if he felt it. “If I must. You coordinate the documentation, though. I can give them a few recipes, but I don’t got a mind for thinking gameplay balance.”

Funny, that's exactly what I thought when I read it.

 

[Ninjerk]

red from a burrito? wtf?

 

[Mustawd]

red from a burrito? wtf?

The previous post is full of bad grammar. For example, wtf does this mean?

Her binder of was still out, and his attention drew...

Her binder of? Of what?

Bear Tim hadn’t spoken to anyone since the start of the Kickstart campaign.

Kickstarter* Jesus, it's like a 14 year old wrote this.

You’re boss now, she signed, letting her fingers do the work in the absence of her ruler and pencil.

Huh?

Dude, this made no sense whatsoever.

 

[Kev Inkline]

red from a burrito? wtf?

Obviously, as I only got my hands on that excerpt of the original document, I cannot say for sure what is it all about. Based on my limited experience in living in California, I would surmise his hands are red from a wet burrito with red enchillada sauce. But who knows, the whole piece seems written in a hurry and under emotional duress, as one can see from the series of glaring mistakes pointed out by yourself and Mustawd.

 

[Space Insect]

red from a burrito? wtf?

Obviously, as I only got my hands on that excerpt of the original document, I cannot say for sure what is it all about. Based on my limited experience in living in California, I would surmise his hands are red from a wet burrito with red enchillada sauce. But who knows, the whole piece seems written in a hurry and under emotional duress, as one can see from the series of glaring mistakes pointed out by yourself and Mustawd.

Does this mean that Obsidian is currently in the same state as Sir-Tech was in Australia? Avellone must have left for the same reasons Cleve did.

 

[Mygaffer]

Quoting this from the Obsidian forums. We're discussing PoE, but it also applies to Tyranny - I'm very curious if combat mechanics will see any improvement there, relative to what I consider bad combat mechanics in PoE.
https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86684-mechanics-the-big-attack-speed-conundrum/#entry1809086

Obsidian has overcomplicated things bringing the attack/recovery confusion to a whole new level. Mechanics should generally be straight-forward and transparent to the player.

30 minutes with the Backer Beta gave me the same opinion which I still hold now when I have over 160 hours with the full game. It's an interesting game largely in spite of its combat system.

When players have to decompile and look through game code just to figure out how core combat mechanics work, you know that... things are not rosey.

Apparently it is just me but I enjoy the mental math involved in making sure I'm squeezing the most out of my character in any given encounter. I liked that there was a learning curve. My main worry with Tyranny is that it will be more like Sword Coast Legends, very simple hotbar based skill system made to appeal to people who don't want to have think beyond what color of explosion they want when they press a button. We all saw how well the community reacted to that.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Apparently it is just me but I enjoy the mental math involved in making sure I'm squeezing the most out of my character in any given encounter. I liked that there was a learning curve. My main worry with Tyranny is that it will be more like Sword Coast Legends, very simple hotbar based skill system made to appeal to people who don't want to have think beyond what color of explosion they want when they press a button. We all saw how well the community reacted to that.

I like the mental math too, but not for its own sake. I want a "reward" for doing it in the form of winning the battle period, not winning it but with the least expenditure of resources. When I can win 99% of combat just as well without that math, something isn't quite right with this game's balance. I doubt the game was intended so. It's only the dragons and a few other encounters that pose a real challenge, and when they do, the overengineering and the clumsiness to calculations that come with it, become evident.

I also assume that these factors - clumsiness of calculations, needing to design for "every imagineable party, because every build has to be viable" makes designing encounters a whole lot more difficult, and a designer tends to take the road of least resistance, esp. in the base game.

 

[Alienman]

So according to that tweet, will Tyranny be some kind of casual lite rpg?

 

[Hobo Elf]

So according to that tweet, will Tyranny be some kind of casual lite rpg?

So, business as usual for Obsidian.

 

[LESS T_T]

https://blog.tyrannygame.com/2016/05/25/dev-diary-3-fatebinder/

Dev Diary #3 – Fatebinder

The Fatebinders who serve Tunon are skilled in many areas, from swordplay, to spellcraft, to the poisoned knife in the dark.


Last time I talked about some of our core game systems – attributes, skills, and progression. For today’s update, I want to switch gears a bit and talk about Kyros’ Empire and the role your character will play in the world ofTyranny: that of a Fatebinder.

The Fatebinders serve a key role in Kyros’ vast Empire. While the Overlord’s rule is absolute, the Empire is too large for Kyros to directly control everyone. Instead, Kyros grants authority over different parts of the Empire to the Archons. Some Archons are governors of provinces or military districts, others control important groups like armies, mage guilds, or specialized agents like the Fatebinders.

Each Archon is granted limited autonomy over their area of control. As long as they serve Kyros’ goals and do not break any of the Overlord’s laws, Kyros permits the Archons to rule their armies and provinces in a manner of their choosing. Because of this, the Archons and the groups they control will often clash with one another. The Fatebinders were created by Tunon the Adjudicator, Archon of Justice, to solve these problems.

As a Fatebinder and servant of Tunon, it is your duty to resolve disputes that arise between the different armies and mage guilds. You decide whose actions are best in line with Kyros’ laws, mediate where you can, and order punishments – and executions – where required. Any citizen in Kyros’ Empire can appeal to a Fatebinder for judgment, even if their problem doesn’t involve a dispute between factions. Doing so is dangerous, as a Fatebinder’s judgments cannot be appealed and some Binders deal harshly with those who bother them for trivial complaints.


Laws of Kyros
Kyros’ laws are numerous, and it is the duty of Fatebinders to interpret them in their judgments. Some laws are absolute, some are contradictory, and some are both absolute and contradictory. Fatebinders spend many years learning Kyros’ laws, the judgments handed down by previous generations of Binders, and the times when Kyros punished a Fatebinder for overstepping with their judgments.

Some of Kyros’ laws include:

Kyros’ Peace: Your life belongs to the Overlord if you vow fealty, and cannot be taken from you except by the Overlord. Legally this means that surrendering in the midst of battle should make Kyros soldiers stop killing you, as your life does not belong to them. It also grants Archons, as extensions of Kyros’ will, the right to conscript citizens into their service as soldiers, mages, or agents. As a Fatebinder you are an extension of Kyros’ Will, and have the right to order the execution of those guilty of breaking the law.

The Magician’s Folly: If a mage inadvertently causes harm or death due to the unknowable perils of magic, the mage will not be held liable if the magic was used for the glory of the Overlord. Many believe this law grants mages more rights in Kyros’ Empire, but they are wrong. Mages must belong to sanctioned guilds under the supervision and control of an Archon. Any use of magic, even a spell as simple as lighting a candle, must occur for the glory of Kyros. To do otherwise means death.

Vows Made in Kyros’ Name: Any vow or expression made using Kyros’ name is a binding legal contract. Breaking such a vow is punishable by death. A statement as simple as, “By Kyros, that man is an idiot!” places the speaker in dire peril. An enemy who hears that and can gather both witnesses to your vow, and proof that the man in question is not an idiot, can have you executed.

The Oldwalls are Forbidden: What are the Oldwalls, you ask? Wouldn’t you like to know…


Right of Appeal
A Fatebinder’s judgment, once made, is final. There is no right of appeal. That does not mean a Fatebinder can make any decisions they want, without fear of consequence or reprisal.

If someone is powerful enough, or the favorite of an Archon, they can demand audience with the Archon of Justice. Tunon will never completely overrule a Fatebinder’s decision. Doing so would undermine the rule of law and the integrity of the Fatebinders. However, if Tunon decides that a Binder has stepped beyond the limits of Kyros’ law, he will order their immediate execution.


Archon of Justice
Tunon the Adjudicator is the Archon of Justice and creator of the Fatebinders. Eldest of the Archons in service to Kyros, he has served the Overlord for over 400 years. Though legends tell of many Archons of Justice in the years before Kyros’ ascension, none have been born to challenge Tunon’s claim to the title in the past centuries.

Tunon is a cold and dispassionate figure, devoid of emotion and sentiment. All that moves him is his devotion to Kyros’ law. His true face is hidden behind a metal mask, his Face of Judgment, so that none may see his expression and so determine his feelings about a case before him.

The full extent of Tunon’s powers is unknown. What isknown is that the other Archons, beings of immense power in their own right, fear his judgment almost as much as they fear the Overlord’s displeasure.

-Brian Heins, Game Director

Tunon the Adjudicator, Archon of Justice

 

[Sacred82]

Awesomejaws

 

[Hobo Elf]

They look like retards in the literal sense of the word.

 

[Neanderthal]

Judge Dredd fans?