Game News Tyranny Released

[Prime Junta]

So you make military decisions when other two can't be arsed, sounds like a general to me, despite all tryin to seperate it.

Walp, here's a 100% authentic totally non-propaganda picture of a politruk in action. So yeah sometimes civilians do meddle in military affairs when the loyalty of generals is suspect. I've no doubt you'd make a more effective overlord though.

Spoiler

Why other two there if this Tunons in command? Send other two generals to rule, administrate another province, bound to be other uses for armies across empire, can't be that Tiers is only place where someats happenin.

Tunon isn't there. He's in Bastard Tier, administering. It's about a three-day to a week's march from the actual invasion.

Thought he'd already decided on Tunon rulin?

Ruling the Bastard Tier, yes. Still a bunch of other Tiers left. It's about a week's march from one end to the other, so there is room for another satrap there.

Gotta say this all sounds a bit illogical an arsepulled so far.

I read just about everything the game threw at me, and was struck at how not arsepulled it seemed. The Tiers are too big for Tunon to rule alone. If the two generals had been best buddies I think it would've been big enough for them to split between them, but they weren't, for fairly good reasons that also became apparent over the course of the game. I honestly couldn't find much to fault in the logic of the world or the course of events.

Note that there isn't any magical way of communication for example. The fastest way to communicate is by pigeon and that's pretty unreliable. So these provinces do end up with a quite a lot of independence, simply because Kyros is really far away, and even Tunon is a week's march from where you are.

 

[Dayyālu]

Cosmetically Bronze/Iron Age, but there are derpy anachronisms like greatswords. You do see lots of spears, falx, and such, you can play as an anime peltast lobbing javelins all over the place (and there are other similar skirmishers around), there are plenty of bronze swords with the right leaf-shaped blades, and armour designs do have a period look.

Weapon and armour design in Tyranny is atrocious and anyone saying that anything in Tyranny has a "period look" should check google images for more than five seconds.

I'm still curious to read your review, but having played AoD after Tyranny it's noticeable how one built a coherent setting taking Real Life and setting-inspired weaponry and the other made up fantasy stuff with the depth of research of a children's cartoon. Tyranny is ugly: I have praised its reactivity, but it's a ugly, boring game, and AoD is instead thematically coherent and the combat is fun.

Still, can't wait to read a professional opinion.

 

[Prime Junta]

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I thought Tyranny was rather beautiful, and also had the kind of visual cohesion that games rarely have these days -- most of 'em look like they're built out of a grab bag of 3D clip art. This one has a distinct style. A bit painterly, and fitting the cinematics well.

Realistic look, or look that clearly mimicked some particular Bronze/Iron age culture, no, definitely not. But the armour and weapon designs looked like something that could be done with period tech and would, for the most part, work (allowing for similar exaggerations as Pillars -- all weapons are somewhat outsize f.ex. to make them easily distinguishable).

 

[Neanderthal]

So yeah sometimes civilians do meddle in military affairs when the loyalty of generals is suspect. I've no doubt you'd make a more effective overlord though.

Tunon isn't there. He's in Bastard Tier, administering. It's about a three-day to a week's march from the actual invasion.

Ruling the Bastard Tier, yes. Still a bunch of other Tiers left. It's about a week's march from one end to the other, so there is room for another satrap there.

I read just about everything the game threw at me, and was struck at how not arsepulled it seemed. The Tiers are too big for Tunon to rule alone. If the two generals had been best buddies I think it would've been big enough for them to split between them, but they weren't, for fairly good reasons that also became apparent over the course of the game. I honestly couldn't find much to fault in the logic of the world or the course of events.

Note that there isn't any magical way of communication for example. The fastest way to communicate is by pigeon and that's pretty unreliable. So these provinces do end up with a quite a lot of independence, simply because Kyros is really far away, and even Tunon is a week's march from where you are.

Just sounds fuckin wishy washy an arsepulled way you've got ultimate authority, then you're disposable an a pawn, then you're representin real ruler o Tiers, then you're not, perhaps stick a code of conduct an boundary of authority in manual. Can't see a commisar deciding Zhukovs strategy at all though, shootin him if he turned traitorous or incompetent but not suddenly making military decisions.

Yeah I would an i'm modest.

So if not this Tunon who has been given command o Tiers, an why are the two generals contravenin their orders an stickin their noses in Tunons/whoevers land? How does game say that other provinces have been conquered an developed/settled, why is this one such a fuckin abortion that it has to have a dogsbody with power of ultimate authority, whose serving rightful/not rightful ruler deciding on military actions for generals?

SausageInYourFace i'm not likin what i'm hearin so far, think i'll wait a year or so. You're right though i'll stop askin about it, let others have a turn.

 

[Prime Junta]

So if not this Tunon who has been given command o Tiers, an why are the two generals contravenin their orders an stickin their noses in Tunons/whoevers land? How does game say that other provinces have been conquered an developed/settled, why is this one such a fuckin abortion that it has to have a dogsbody with power of ultimate authority, whose serving rightful/not rightful ruler deciding on military actions for generals?

Tunon is the civilian authority. Ashe and VoNerat are the highest-ranking military commanders. There isn't a field marshal because Kyros doesn't want someone gaining control over both armies, thereby becoming a power in his own right. He doesn't even seem that concerned about accomplishing the invasion efficiently or ruling well: he just wants to win, and doesn't brook any threats to his rule, full stop. If both armies end up spent, so much the better: this is the last bit of the world to be conquered, and an army with nowhere to go is asking for trouble.

That doesn't sound arsepulled to me at all; it sounds remarkably coherent and logical. Real life has far stupider stuff.

 

[Lacrymas]

Kyros doesn't need any manipulations like that, even if it would've been a smart move in light of its motivations, because he can invoke an edict and wipe the armies outright. About the general bit - I don't know why more people don't take "inspiration" from NWN2's Stronghold Keep when talking about ordering people around, the way you sent that adventuring party on quests was one of the coolest moments in that otherwise drab game. You went off to do things nobody else could, so you weren't an errand boy, YOU had errand boys.

 

[Neanderthal]

Tunon is the civilian authority. Ashe and VoNerat are the highest-ranking military commanders. There isn't a field marshal because Kyros doesn't want someone gaining control over both armies, thereby becoming a power in his own right. He doesn't even seem that concerned about accomplishing the invasion efficiently or ruling well: he just wants to win, and doesn't brook any threats to his rule, full stop. If both armies end up spent, so much the better: this is the last bit of the world to be conquered, and an army with nowhere to go is asking for trouble.

That doesn't sound arsepulled to me at all; it sounds remarkably coherent and logical. Real life has far stupider stuff.

Why not save these two armies for unrest in rest o empire, bound to be some, plan expansion beyond this continent, etc. Seems wasteful o resources. Sounds like he shunt be bothered about a single commander gainin power as he'll allready have satraps administerin his regions under threat o edicts, an one in Tiers'd be no different. Why send two armies into same region in first place? An army with nowhere to go is a fine resource in terms o settlers/standin militia, gi them farmin land an make slave o former owners = loyal province or just have a standing guard presence like Roman legions that helps trade an security o realm. If Tunons civilian authority once again why is his dogsbody makin military decisions? Why does Kyros dislike efficient runnin of his empire, taxes flowing, trade boomin etc? Seems silly.

It just sounds poorly thought out to me, then again perhaps i'm too much of a sperg, this is why we need an autism intensifies badge.

 

[Azarkon]

FO4 was transparently going for a "New Vegas for babbies" kind of thing. Look ma, I can do C&C too!

But to get back on topic, the thing about Tyranny is that it was marketed as a "C&C game". So of course there's a natural tendency to compare it to other games that did the same thing, even though there are other RPGs that also have good C&C but didn't put it front and center.

When Tyranny came out, there was a certain poster (whose posts on the topic have since been deleted ) who claimed that the game's purported C&C focus was a sham and that it didn't have good C&C at all. Most people don't seem to have gotten that impression, however. At least, if they're complaining about the game then it seems they've found better things to complain about. But it's certainly something worth examining.

As far as I can tell with Tyranny, there are four paths that you choose fairly early on, which determine the major decisions of the game, and then various smaller choices that don't matter as much. As an example, once you decide to break the alliance with the Scarlet Chorus, you can't just choose to go back later on, and this locks you out of all the Scarlet Chorus story. Same with the rebellion once you miss the opportunity in the very beginning. The game doesn't allow for a change of mind in the middle of the game, except with respect to the kill everyone path, but even that's not available after a while. More importantly, once you're on a side, most of the decisions you make are limited by those that serve the side. You can't, for example, avoid sending the baby to Nerat when on that path, so even when Sirin bitch up a storm about it, all you can do is tell her to shut the fuck up - no choice to break the alliance then and there, no choice to try and fool Nerat, and so on.

But I didn't play through the game four times so I obviously have no clue about it and shouldn't talk.

 

[agris]

PJ implicitly argues

I'm not implicitly arguing anything. I'm just pointing out that other than AoD (and to a much lesser extent, The Witcher 2, which I reference elsewhere) branching story hasn't been a priority for cRPGs in recent years (which I think is a shame).

There's always Wasteland 2, I hear it revived branching story and C&C in cRPG games.

 

[Azarkon]

So you command ultimate authority over generals in disputes then? Sounds a bit fuckin stupid to be honest, why not have an ultimate field commander in that case?

Theres a few good scenes in Ten Thousand by Paul Kearney where Macht Hoplites gather in their Centons (war companies named after the cauldrons they cook stew in) and vote on who will lead all the Centons in battle, an be uncontested when in conflict, but relinquich power back to Centons after a battle. Might have been nice to have somethin like this as a cultural nod.

Hows arms an armour anyway, is it authentic Bronze Age wi spear an Argive/Pelta dominatin or loadsa medieval shit as usual?

Tyranny's setting is as much Bronze Age Europe as Pillars of Eternity's setting is medieval Europe. That is to say, on the surface it is, but as soon as you look past the skin, you'll find it's more fantasy than historical. For example, Graven Ashe's army is called a Legion, and they supposedly fight the way a Roman Legion does, but in the game all they do is rush you the same way any enemy does. The Sages look similar to Greek philosophers, and make references to Greek math, but in the end they're basically just a group of mages in search of knowledge. There's no detailed historical world building here. What world building exists has to do with the fantasy side of the game, such as the Archons, their powers, and their followers.

 

[santino27]

So is this the new review format? Reviewer writes review, review gets leaked in an exclusive preview that lasts mere seconds, then a Q&A with the reviewer, and then finally the review gets posted?

Yah, ok. Makes sense.

I find your optimism that said review will ever get posted most distubring. We all know that this will all just continue spiraling until PJ gets discredited as a tier-3 reviewer, Bubbles gets blacklisted for leaking super-sekret information, and Infinitron gets outed as a console in human form.

 

[Mustawd]

On the plus side, at least this thread is not about PoE

 

[Prime Junta]

On the plus side, at least this thread is not about PoE

...yet.

Tyranny's setting is as much Bronze Age Europe as Pillars of Eternity's setting is medieval Europe. That is to say, on the surface it is, but as soon as you look past the skin, you'll find it's more fantasy than historical. For example, Graven Ashe's army is called a Legion, and they supposedly fight the way a Roman Legion does, but in the game all they do is rush you the same way any enemy does. The Sages look similar to Greek philosophers, and make references to Greek math, but in the end they're basically just a group of mages in search of knowledge. There's no detailed historical world building here. What world building exists has to do with the fantasy side of the game, such as the Archons, their powers, and their followers.

Pretty much, yes. There are also ominous remnants of an advanced past civilisation, that sort of thing. It's more Malazan than Hellenic for sure. But it's good fantasy worldbuilding at a Bronze Age tech level, and that worldbuilding extends to, for example, how magic works, where it comes from, and what it can and can't accomplish.

It did bother me a little that there didn't attempt to be any attempt at fantasy linguistics; the names were basically asspulls. Could be argued that they're translations of whatever the names in the actual languages there are, but still.

(I'm not saying it's tremendous fantasy worldbuilding, the best fantasy worldbuilding as obv only The Donald could do that should he decide to get into computer games. I can think of a bunch of better ones off the bat -- Malazan f.ex. --, but not a great many of them are original computer game settings. It's not obviously derivative, it's not painfully clichéd, and it has a more than superficially thought-out logic behind both the world and the events in it. That puts it a cut above run-of-the-mill fantasy stuff like Forgotten Realms, Thedas, Eora, or what have you.)

 

[Azarkon]

On the plus side, at least this thread is not about PoE

...yet.

Tyranny's setting is as much Bronze Age Europe as Pillars of Eternity's setting is medieval Europe. That is to say, on the surface it is, but as soon as you look past the skin, you'll find it's more fantasy than historical. For example, Graven Ashe's army is called a Legion, and they supposedly fight the way a Roman Legion does, but in the game all they do is rush you the same way any enemy does. The Sages look similar to Greek philosophers, and make references to Greek math, but in the end they're basically just a group of mages in search of knowledge. There's no detailed historical world building here. What world building exists has to do with the fantasy side of the game, such as the Archons, their powers, and their followers.

Pretty much, yes. There are also ominous remnants of an advanced past civilisation, that sort of thing. It's more Malazan than Hellenic for sure. But it's good fantasy worldbuilding at a Bronze Age tech level, and that worldbuilding extends to, for example, how magic works, where it comes from, and what it can and can't accomplish.

It did bother me a little that there didn't attempt to be any attempt at fantasy linguistics; the names were basically asspulls. Could be argued that they're translations of whatever the names in the actual languages there are, but still.

(I'm not saying it's the best fantasy worldbuilding as obv only The Donald could do that should he decide to get into computer games. I can think of a bunch of better ones off the bat -- Malazan f.ex. --, but not a great many of them are original computer game settings. It's not obviously derivative, it's not painfully clichéd, and it has a more than superficially thought-out logic behind both the world and the events in it. That puts it a cut above run-of-the-mill fantasy stuff like Forgotten Realms, Thedas, Eora, or what have you.)

It is closer to Glen Clook's The Black Company than Malazan Book of the Fallen. Malazan reminds me of Faerun, in that behind every corner there's a high level super mage with plans to rule the world, and more ancient civilizations, ruins, races, gods, and lost magic than you can remember. Tyranny feels much smaller as a setting. There's Kyros, the Archons, the lost civilization that gave Kyros his power, some random beast people, and that's about it. It's the minimum that makes the story work, while Malazan enjoys flooding you with ideas and characters.

 

[Delterius]

(Or, okay, if you're 100% grog who feels that all content/story/setting/writing/quests is smoke-and-mirrors, then yeah sure it's smoke-and-mirrors. I find that position autistic but whatever.)

M-hm. So you if you play Chorus, I think Edict of Stone is first you have to end. You go to purple mages, they do ritual, you fight there, break staves, get +3 stat item from Cairn, get a slide in the end, it doesn't affect story or gameplay in any way later.
If you play Disfavored, I think it's last of edicts. But game is very kind to level scale all content, so whatever. You fight red chorus guys, save staves, get +3 stat.
If you go rebel, you can kill Disfavored, break staves, get +3 stat. Or don't break. You don't get +3 stat!

Is this the best Tyranny's branching has to offer? Because just the starter city of AoD has

Spoiler

you pick from robbing the local lord's shipment of gold to being the merchant who uses said gold to buy the local lord. Or puppet the local lord with a foreign army. There's really no comparison here. AoD's format is just that much more powerful when it comes to story branching.

 

[Prime Junta]

I haven't read The Black Company. I did think there was a bunch of commonalities with Malazan though: the Archons were a lot like the Ascendants, with some of the resemblances even a bit close for comfort -- Bleden Mark was a lot like Cotillion and Graven Ashe like Caladan Brood --, there was the general tech level, there were the Spires and Oldwalls which reminded me a lot of the K'Chain Che'malle relics, and there was the general dusty feel of an army on campaign.

 

[Prime Junta]

Is this the best Tyranny's branching has to offer?

No.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I haven't read The Black Company.

there's always wikipedia

 

[Prime Junta]

I haven't read The Black Company.

there's always wikipedia

I checked, they didn't say anything about the worldbuilding.

 

[Delterius]

Is this the best Tyranny's branching has to offer?

No.

Umm. Alright. Could you spoiler the best example in the game? Maybe via PM.

 

[Blink]

All this crap over one fuckin line, lik jesus fuck

 

[Excidium II]

Note that there isn't any magical way of communication for example. The fastest way to communicate is by pigeon and that's pretty unreliable. So these provinces do end up with a quite a lot of independence, simply because Kyros is really far away, and even Tunon is a week's march from where you are.

Everyone's waiting for the Archon of Telephones to be born.

 

[Prime Junta]

Is this the best Tyranny's branching has to offer?

No.

Umm. Alright. Could you spoiler the best example in the game? Maybe via PM.

Spoiler

In my first playthrough, I allied with the Scarlet Chorus. Then I got increasingly pissed off at them, so I started sabotaging what they're doing while gathering intel on them. Towards the end of the second chapter, I presented my evidence to Tunon, accusing The Voices of Nerat of treason, who had Bleden Mark haul him there and execute him on the spot. Once Kyros' final ruling hit, I ended up convincing Tunon to submit to my will, but had to kill Bleden Mark and Graven Ashe in rather dim boss fights. I ended the game sitting on my spire fairly friendless, with Tunon my greatest asset but most of the remaining factions hating my guts.

In my second, third, and fourth attempts I had to storm/infiltrate/defend a fortress that didn't feature at all in the first, in one of them I dungeon-dove into a section of the Oldwalls that was closed in the others and did a bunch of quests for two minor factions (one in each playthrough) that didn't figure at all in the others, and so on. I was getting a lot of fresh material even on my fourth run.

Edit: this kind of thing is really unusual in cRPGs these days, especially from relatively prominent studios. That and the production values have me thinking this is likely to be a cult classic. There are people who really don't care about shit gameplay (as it's also easy and therefore won't frustrate them) but really do care about story-based replay value. They will be playing this game for a long, long time, and I think there are enough of them to make a little cult.

VtM: Bloodlines is similar in this respect -- shit gameplay, but it does certain other things well, and the things it does well, other games don't, so it keeps popping up every now and again. There are a few others I can think of but since I haven't played them I won't name them.

 

[santino27]

It is closer to Glen Clook's The Black Company than Malazan Book of the Fallen. Malazan reminds me of Faerun, in that behind every corner there's a high level super mage with plans to rule the world, and more ancient civilizations, ruins, races, gods, and lost magic than you can remember. Tyranny feels much smaller as a setting. There's Kyros, the Archons, the lost civilization that gave Kyros his power, some random beast people, and that's about it. It's the minimum that makes the story work, while Malazan enjoys flooding you with ideas and characters.

I think the clearest parallel to the Black Company is the way the Archons seem to primarily be subjugated former opponents, muich like the Ten Who Were Taken. I prefer Cook's world though.

 

[Azarkon]

It is closer to Glen Clook's The Black Company than Malazan Book of the Fallen. Malazan reminds me of Faerun, in that behind every corner there's a high level super mage with plans to rule the world, and more ancient civilizations, ruins, races, gods, and lost magic than you can remember. Tyranny feels much smaller as a setting. There's Kyros, the Archons, the lost civilization that gave Kyros his power, some random beast people, and that's about it. It's the minimum that makes the story work, while Malazan enjoys flooding you with ideas and characters.

I think the clearest parallel to the Black Company is the way the Archons seem to primarily be subjugated former opponents, muich like the Ten Who Were Taken. I prefer Cook's world though.

Well, that and the whole idea of evil winning.

The Malazan Empire was never presented as evil, much less its soldiers who were always portrayed in a positive way.