Codex Review Uberlong Knights of the Old Republic review

[kumquatq3]

But that's not to say it's the only benchmark. After all, there are newer games which might do something better than Fallout, like ToEE's combat system or Gothic's environment interaction or Arcanum's reaction system(though, flawed).

But do you see that as a good way to really review a game? I mean, throwing the best of all worlds at it? I think you have to compare games head to head, not piece by piece.

Do I make any sense here?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

But do you see that as a good way to really review a game? I mean, throwing the best of all worlds at it? I think you have to compare games head to head, not piece by piece.

Do I make any sense here?

No, you do not. I'm not saying games have to one up everything, but when you have a CRPG like KotOR where the multiple ways to handle situations is good for the most part, but you have very lackluster combat plagued by a lack of things to do during at as well as a shoddy console port interface, that brings down the whole thing, doesn't it? Or the character system which doesn't allow the multiclassing we're used to in other games that use the d20 system, or has a lack of classes, feats, and so forth, that brings the gameplay down.

Heck, you have even stated that KotOR suffers in regards to the lack of multiple ends per location, which is something Fallout did. That's just a piece of Fallout, yet something that would have made the game far, far more interesting.

Oh, and rather than totally derailing the thread on NMA about the gamespy thing:

They gave a semi-retard reason for all that (the special metal weeve). Seriously tho, if you could just cut thorugh everything with a saber, that would kinda ruin the game.

That would depend on how they did it. Instead, they did a no brainer and just cheesed it so there was nothing special about lightsabers.

Hell, a GREAT way to have done it would be to borrow a page from the movies where only Jedi did the melee thing. Everyone else uses blasters or other ranged energy weapons. Instead, they made it like a D&D game where most everyone uses melee, melee is stronger than ranged, and lightsabers are just magic swords.

But yeah, they cheesed instead. Even the excuse is rather funny, a special metal that's resistant to lightsabers, yet even primative Wookiees and Sand People have weapons made from it. In fact, everyone seems to have it, since everyone can block a lightsaber with their melee weapon.

Really, if a tuskan raider pulls out a gaffi stick versus a Jedi, he deserves what we saw in the original Star Wars and again in Episode 2, quick death. Rather than putting Sand People in the middle of the game and making them tougher than what we've seen in the movies, a better course of action would simply be to put them at the beginning, make them simple fodder for the Dark Siders, or used an enemy that makes more sense in that position.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yeah, watching everybody carry a sword in the SW sci-fi universe was pathetic. They gave an explanation about shilds being too effective against blasters, but still...what next? kung fu fighting?
Introducing close range DnD penalties was even more pathetic. I can understand that trying to use a bow when somebody is in your face is not very effective, but using a blaster or an equivalent of a machine gun is. What penalties? :shock:

Hell, a GREAT way to have done it would be to borrow a page from the movies where only Jedi did the melee thing

It is a great way because it's the ONLY way. Anything else is not SW but DnD in space

 

[Volourn]

VD, everyone knows that SW is a FANTASY game in space. And, talking about silly things, about the super hammer being as effective as most (if not all) guns in the FO series. Not realistic at all - battery or not.

 

[Vault Dweller]

First of all, Fallout is a post-apoc world, it doesn't have the resources the SW world has, not everybody in Fallout can afford, find, maintain a gun, hence more affordable melee weapons. They are hardly anybody's first choices, but they are better then nothing. In the SW universe, the guns are easy to get.
Second, a hammer is a formidable weapon that can deliver a good blow through the armor, throw in a kinetic effect and it's as good as a gun if you manage to get close enough which could be a very challenging task.

 

[Volourn]

No, I udnerstand why melee weapons, and/or cheap guns are very common in FO. that makese sense; but sorry when a hammer hit someone in they go flying across the screen, I look at the screen liek this: . Now, I'm not really complaining as it is very cool; but I'm just saying if one is gonna complain about unlreasitic nature of lightsabres vs. simple melee weapons like the sand people one; they should not ignore the super hammer - espicially when lightsabres by their very nature aren't even "realistic" to begin with.

 

[Spazmo]

Why shouldn'y they go flying when solidly hit by a sledgehammer? Have you any idea of the energy a sledge can transmit to something? If someone who's very good with a sledge gets a good, solid hit with a super sledge designed to amplify many times the energy of the blow, it's perfectly plausible. There's more than enough force there to knock someone over and send then skidding a few meters.

 

[Vault Dweller]

but sorry when a hammer hit someone in they go flying across the screen, I look at the screen liek this: .

Out of curiousity, have you ever been hit by a hammer? I haven't either, but it seems to me that some knockdown is to be expected. Whether it takes a form of flying across the screen or rolling a few meters is a different matter.

Now, I'm not really complaining as it is very cool; but I'm just saying if one is gonna complain about unlreasitic nature of lightsabres vs. simple melee weapons like the sand people one; they should not ignore the super hammer - espicially when lightsabres by their very nature aren't even "realistic" to begin with.

Apples and oranges. Nobody blocks bullets with a hammer, that would be stupid just like blocking a lightsaber with a stick or a sword. It's plain wrong.

 

[Volourn]

Actually, I ahven't; but I have seen a few people been hit by one. And, yes, they feel the pain; but they do NOT go flying/. It worst they are knocked down onto the ground. Even taking ainto effect the "super hammer" bit; it is silly and unrelasitic no matter how much one tries to squirm with it.

Remmeber, I'm not really justifying the sabre vs. stic thing; I'm just pointing out the ludriocrous of how one can get so upset about it yet fully accept the absurity (yet amusing) sight of someone skidding across the ground because some lucky smick with a hammer.

 

[kumquatq3]

I'm not saying games have to one up everything, but when you have a CRPG like KotOR where the multiple ways to handle situations is good for the most part, but you have very lackluster combat plagued by a lack of things to do during at as well as a shoddy console port interface, that brings down the whole thing, doesn't it?

My main point of that whole rant was: You have to compare the game to a overall benchmark, otherwise (unless it beats all individual benchmarks, and even then) you don't know what you have. Does that make anymore sense?

Clearly the interface leaves you wanting, but it doesn't become ultra annoying till around the very end of the game. This is when you are at the height of your datapad collection. Clearly this could have been better. Along with more damn endings.

As for the combat, say what you will about it, but I have played the game twice and the combat never got old/tedious. Mind you, I'm not saying every second of it was teh 3e$t ever, but I am saying that even in superior (imo) RPGs like FO the combat got old for me by the end of the first run through. All I'm trying to point out is I thought that the combat works for this game, not that it is better than an benchmark we currently have. And with everything, it could have been better. By no means does it damn it either, tho.

Oh, and rather than totally derailing the thread on NMA about the gamespy thing

Hey, you started it :wink:. Actually someone else did apparently...

Hell, a GREAT way to have done it would be to borrow a page from the movies where only Jedi did the melee thing. Everyone else uses blasters or other ranged energy weapons. Instead, they made it like a D&D game where most everyone uses melee, melee is stronger than ranged, and lightsabers are just magic swords.

I hear you, but even thats wrong. Blasters are worthless against a jedi (unless they are a freaking cannon). Think of all the blaster bolt defelcted in episode 1-2 by the jedi. You need a small army to take them down. So, taking a que from the movies doesn't seem logical here, as they don't lend themselves to a game easily here.

Even the excuse is rather funny

Or as I called it "semi-retarded", but at least they offered one thats kinda (winces will typing this) logical. I would be hard pressed to do better.

Rather than putting Sand People in the middle of the game and making them tougher than what we've seen in the movies, a better course of action would simply be to put them at the beginning, make them simple fodder for the Dark Siders, or used an enemy that makes more sense in that position.

That would seemingly result in one of two things: 1. That your are pushed to Tatoonie early in the game 2. That after you become a jedi, most of what you fight for the remainder of the game is Dark Jedi, madalorians, and big animals. Anything else should be "realistically" screwed.

My overall point is: People seem to want to drag in the game through the dirt for its minor issues, rather than what it really stumbles on. Seriously, if you can't except that Tusken Raiders are fighting Jedi, how do you suspend your belief for every other law of physics broken by the SW universe? I already know the counter arguement to this, no need to reply with it, but I hope you understand my point. BTW, all this really isnt meant to be an attack on the review, which was pretty fair, tho I had the benefit of certain things explained to me (like that ancient race stuff) and apparently there is alot of it in the SW universe.

As far as the hammer conversation goes: i have never seen or heard of anyone getting hit in the chest with a sledge hammer, then falling face down, only to slide several several meters away.

 

[Spazmo]

Mispost pruned.

As far as the hammer conversation goes: i have never seen or heard of anyone getting hit in the chest with a sledge hammer, then falling face down, only to slide several several meters away.

That's more a quirk of the animation than anything else, really.

 

[eightman2k]

Mispost pruned.

As far as the hammer conversation goes: i have never seen or heard of anyone getting hit in the chest with a sledge hammer, then falling face down, only to slide several several meters away.

That's more a quirk of the animation than anything else, really.

IMO The hammer is no more or less realistic then the (accepted convention) that someone can get sliced/shot/blown to pieces only to recover to full health after a few stim/med-packs....




Back to lurking....

 

[kumquatq3]

Its not being able to get past trivial things, like most of what we are discussing above, that I think gets in the way of many people enjoying thier games more.

 

[Volourn]

Unless it's a game they really like (or by a company they like) then they can ignore these "weaknesses". Otherwise, it's detrimental to getting into the game.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I think the point you're missing, Volourn, is that in Fallout, it's established per the setting that sledgehammers ARE as capable as guns. Star Wars, on the other hand, has demonstrated numerous times that metal objects are no match for lightsabers and no one carries longswords.

 

[kumquatq3]

I think the point you're missing, Volourn, is that in Fallout, it's established per the setting that sledgehammers ARE as capable as guns. Star Wars, on the other hand, has demonstrated numerous times that metal objects are no match for lightsabers and no one carries longswords.

Yes, it has. But this game is set FAR back in time in the SW universe. It is supposed to be more primative (hence swords). So can you say via your knowledge that it goes against canon of the period? Where there are many more Jedi, so a defense against a lightsaber would be something that many more people would want to look in to. You commented in your review that all the weapons of mass destruction in the movies where recenlty built, unlike the star forge, so it was awkward. It turns out that that "ancient race" is all over the SW books. They apparently built whole solar systems. My knowledge of all of it is limited, so who are you to say what goes against canon of the period. You may be right in the end, but I don't think your equiped currently to make that judgement.

 

[kumquatq3]

I think the point you're missing, Volourn, is that in Fallout, it's established per the setting that sledgehammers ARE as capable as guns. Star Wars, on the other hand, has demonstrated numerous times that metal objects are no match for lightsabers and no one carries longswords.

Yes, the movies sure seem to support you. But this game is set FAR back in time in the SW universe. It is supposed to be more primative (hence swords). So can you say via your knowledge that it goes against canon of the period? Where there are many more Jedi, so a defense against a lightsaber would be something that many more people would want to look in to. You commented in your review that all the weapons of mass destruction in the movies where recenlty built, unlike the star forge, so it was awkward. It turns out that that "ancient race" is all over the SW books. They apparently built whole solar systems. My knowledge of all of it is limited, so who are you to say what goes against canon of the period. You may be right in the end, but I don't think your equiped currently to make that judgement.

 

[kumquatq3]

I fucking double posted again.......

sorry for my non-ability to realize the quote button isnt edit.....

 

[Volourn]

Lucas Arts seem to disagree with that assessment since, after all, these things are approved by them and I have a funny feeling they know what fits in the SW realm more than you or I do. Obviously, in KOTOR's setting, swords can be useful but they are NOT the equal of lightsabres. To say they are is kinda silly. I don't think swords parrying lightsabres is such a big deal to make such noise over.

As for the hammer thing; it's silly. Plain and simple - espicially since Fallot is supposed to be absed what 8could* happen if nuclear bombs drop en masee. Are you saying it's reasoanble think a sledge hammer can do that to someone. Sure... Not that it truly bother sme; but I'd think it would bother someone who's bothered by lightsabre stuff. *shrugs*

 

[suibhne]

Hey Saint - nitpick here, but you write:

On average, the Soldier will gain one feat per level, Scout will gain one feat every other level, and Scoundrel would gain one feat every two levels.

This works out to mean that both Scout and Scoundrel earn a feat every second level. I still haven't fired up the game, but I'm guessing you might have meant that Scoundrels only earn a feat every three levels (every third level).

 

[Spazmo]

Lucas Arts seem to disagree with that assessment since, after all, these things are approved by them and I have a funny feeling they know what fits in the SW realm more than you or I do.

They do? Care to explain why Lucas put out Episodes 1 and 2, then?

 

[HanoverF]

Unless it's a game they really like (or by a company they like) then they can ignore these "weaknesses". Otherwise, it's detrimental to getting into the game.

*cough*

 

[eightman2k]

Whether it's something as simple as a savegame or as complicated as magic....every game ever made requires you to ignore reality on some level....

 

[kumquatq3]

Lucas Arts seem to disagree with that assessment since, after all, these things are approved by them and I have a funny feeling they know what fits in the SW realm more than you or I do.

They do? Care to explain why Lucas put out Episodes 1 and 2, then?

Acid flash backs from the 70's made it seem like a great idea?

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Unless it's a game they really like (or by a company they like) then they can ignore these "weaknesses". Otherwise, it's detrimental to getting into the game.

*cough*

Now THAT'S funny! OMFG!