Game News Underrail Dev Log #55: Global Map

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Trashos]

Buy a fucking magnifying lens then ffs.

Lol, I don't wear glasses, actually, although my eyes are not perfect anymore. Haven't had other problems except for this game.

Well he changed the font too. Give it another shot

Thanks, I 'll give it another shot soon and post results. It 's been a while, but I seem to recall that my main problem (after tampering with resolutions) was the inventory. Anyway, we 'll *see* soon.

 

[ArchAngel]

Buy a fucking magnifying lens then ffs.

Lol, I don't wear glasses, actually, although my eyes are not perfect anymore. Haven't had other problems except for this game.

Well he changed the font too. Give it another shot

Thanks, I 'll give it another shot soon and post results. It 's been a while, but I seem to recall that my main problem (after tampering with resolutions) was the inventory. Anyway, we 'll *see* soon.

Inventory also received a few QoL improvements.

 

[mwnn85]

Looking forward to this.
As soon as I saw the shotgun I think I was sold.
A global map is a nice addition - you could've memorised the route or wrote it down but we've got it now.
The sometimes incomplete nature of the maps in Thief was a clever move by Looking Glass.

The only minor criticism I could make of the game is that some of the character feats felt a bit dull compared to Fallout i.e. 5% bonus to [skill], 50% bonus damage when [this condition] occurs, etc
It doesn't have Fallout's super powerful end-game feats i.e. Sniper/Slayer, Bonus AP, etc - to aim for even if they do break the game.

A party based game could be an interesting spin off.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Hello. Anyone whining over the addition of the map, or over its previous absence, is a certified retard. Good day!

 

[toro]

This game is pure combat porn. My heart skips a beat whenever an Underrail thread pops up on the main page.

Party based UR could be legendary.

 

[Black Angel]

Hello. Anyone whining over the addition of the map, or over its previous absence, is a certified retard. Good day!

Personally I don't whine over the addition of the map, and I agree with The Brazilian Slaughter's opinion of the whole thing, but I've seen people legit whining not being able to at the very least memorizing routes from one station to another. Dunno what that says about those people if anyone whinning over the addition of the map are certified retards, though.

 

[Tygrende]

The only minor criticism I could make of the game is that some of the character feats felt a bit dull compared to Fallout i.e. 5% bonus to [skill], 50% bonus damage when [this condition] occurs, etc
It doesn't have Fallout's super powerful end-game feats i.e. Sniper/Slayer, Bonus AP, etc - to aim for even if they do break the game.

But there are multiple extremely powerful and game changing feats. Critical Power, Ambush, Locus of Control, Blitz, Commando, Deadly Snares, Premeditation, Tranquility, Psionic Mania, I could go on and on. Feats are the defining factor of your build in Underrail.

As a matter of fact Ambush is a lot like Fallout's Sniper while Blitz is a lot like Action Boy/Action Girl. I think it's the Fallout perks that are dull in comparsion here- Ambush is conditional/situational and Blitz is a trade-off, meanwhile Sniper and Action Boy/Action Girl were both flat stat increases.

 

[ciox]

Some feats feel like a miss but most are pretty good, I didn't feel the urge to take Deadly Snares at all in my latest run for example, anything that COULD get caught in my traps was helpless and as good as dead, I didn't need constant crits against it.

 

[Fenix]

Yeah, I regret that took Quick Tinkering and traps for my crossbower, bcaise won't take Deadly Snares and I need that +1 feat.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[buffalo bill]

I tried all the resolutions back then, still too small for me.

Buy a fucking magnifying lens then ffs.

 

[ciox]

Not taking Quick Tinkering would make Deadly Snares even less interesting.

The issue is you just don't need Deadly Snares' effect if you are playing a dedicated crossbowman with PER 14+ and Opportunist, which admittedly isn't all characters that would use crossbows and traps.

 

[Tygrende]

quick tinkering is stupid and op. I think its best to avoid taking it not to ruin your experience

I couldn't agree more. The main issue is that the cooldown is shorter than a bear trap's duration, so effectively it allows the palyer to immobilize enemies indefinitely.

Not taking Quick Tinkering would make Deadly Snares even less interesting.

The issue is you just don't need Deadly Snares' effect if you are playing a dedicated crossbowman with PER 14+ and Opportunist, which admittedly isn't all characters that would use crossbows and traps.

Matter of playstyle I guess. If all you do with traps is (ab)use Quick Tinkering then I guess you don't need Deadly Snares. If you like to put traps in various spots before the fight even starts, it's a great way to kill a lot of enemies very quickly.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[ArchAngel]

with quick tinkering you can cover enemies in traps prior to starting a fight(unless your sneaking is terrible).
Then during fights you have easy win button with quick tinkering + trap for no ap points.

Every use case of this skill is abusive. You can beat carnifex easily as soon as you get this(bear traps ftw). It would be fine if trap setup wasnt instant out of fight(there already is a feat that covers trap setup time...) and it did cost some AP + longer cooldown.
Or just remove it and allow setting traps with trap expert feat.

Crossbow characters kind of need quick tinkering to be able to beat the game.

 

[Tigranes]

Quick tinkering is superpowerful, and can allow your dude to overcome overwhelming odds at early-mid levels.

 

[Old One]

Increased Font Size should be a feat.

 

[ciox]

I don't think Quick Tinkering is broken in any way with how it works, it's part of your survival skills in certain areas with non-top builds like Tigranes said.

If anything you could make it so quick-tinkered traps are easier to detect, my character didn't have very high Traps skill and the quick-tinkered traps were often spotted, so I had to go out of my way and use Forcefields and the like to force enemies into traps.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[ciox]

Choke points make everything easy, with forcefield you can bring your chokepoints with you too, if the AI can't resist on jumping on a detected trap that's on a chokepoint then maybe that's an AI problem.

 

[ciox]

Ok, to clarify, retadred-guy, I would prefer that the AI should see consider a detected trap in a choke point to be an obstruction and go around it or flee instead of walking over it to get to you. This is something that AIs that are smart enough like humans would do as a counter to it and it's preferable to nerfing quick tinkering into the ground for all encounters when it's a lot of fun to use as it is, especially since it's NOT a build mainstay given that there's no reason to get enough DEX to take it (and I didn't take it) for a rifle build, or hammer build, or any hybrid builds where you're stretched thin for attribute points.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Tygrende]

I would prefer that the AI should see consider a detected trap in a choke point to be an obstruction and go around it or flee instead of walking over it to get to you.

That would basically turn Quick Tinkering into a single tile of permanent Force Field every 2 turns. This would be prone to abuse as well. You could surround yourself with bear traps and become completly invulnerable to melee, you could cut off entire sections of a map, etc.

The issue is it allows you to immobilize an enemy for 3 turns every 2 turns, without any chance of failure whatsoever. No enemy will spot a trap set under his feet right before his turn, regardless of how high his detection or how low your trap skill is. It would be completly fine if it had a much longer cooldown to prevent spamming. Imagine if Locus of Control had 2 turns of cooldown.

 

[ciox]

- quick tinkering gives option of putting traps during battle. Game doesnt allow to disable traps during combat. See problem there?

Traps placed out of combat still can't be disarmed once in combat, you could cancel disarms in progress just by pressing enter and entering line of sight.

- does detection during combat make actual sense?
- entities smart and observative enough to notice trap while under fire wouldnt be running at you with big hammer to begin with... They will be shooting. Like most humanoids already are. As such I dont see a reason to change anything.

Detection of traps during combat already takes place, whether it makes sense or not.

- most enemies in underrail are rabid animal tier. They just run towards you. Making trap and obstruction sounds even more stupid

That's what I'm talking about, AI changes are already in the works from what I've heard

- i guess having 0AP strong action can be fun. Yes.

http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Premeditation

Yes, Quick Tinkering is Premeditation for traps and Premeditation is often mentioned as the spot where Psi gets serious

The issue is it allows you to immobilize an enemy for 3 turns every 2 turns, without any chance of failure whatsoever. No enemy will spot a trap set under his feet right before his turn, regardless of how high his detection or how low your trap skill is. It would be completly fine if it had a much longer cooldown to prevent spamming. Imagine if Locus of Control had 2 turns of cooldown.

You can use a Crawler Poison bear trap to immobilize+stun someone in a chokepoint for 5 turns total. Are you going to set the Quick TInkering cooldown to 7 turns to compensate for this? Or 12? How does changing the cooldown change interactions with choke points in any way? You can still block off a choke point for 5 turns and do whatever it is you do that apparently breaks the game completely even if Quick Tinkering has a cooldown of 5000 turns.
The only thing you're doing is nerfing a fun ability into being unfun by tying it to a huge cooldown, which should be a crime in a game where it already takes 4 minutes of fighting just to recharge your ability to kick someone in the nuts http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dirty_Kick