KickStarter Underworld Ascendant Pre-Prototype Thread

[Morgoth]

What Neurath and the team at OtherSide have to prove now is that the old dogs still have new tricks to teach.

Old dogs are not in the business of innovation, never were. Just make a damn good dungeon crawler/sim and keep pop culture influences far away from my Underworld. Thank you.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

After having been sitting on the fence for quite some time on whether to back this Kickstarter or not, I have decided...not to.

There are too many reasons for my decision, many of which have been debated back and forth here to death.

The biggest reason, however, is that there will be other methods available later to back them later on, and I'm 99% likely to use those to support OSE and UA than Kickstarter.

 

[Infinitron]

UPDATE: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/othersidegames/underworld-ascendant/posts/1155715

Final Day!

As we post this update, we have a little less than 24 hours to go (officially the campaign ends at 8:55am ET Friday) in the Underworld Ascendant Kickstarter campaign. We've come so far, and made so many new friends! It's hard to believe it will all come to an end...

…So, we've decided that it won’t!

On Friday, over at the Underworld Ascendant site the party will continue!

There, we will keep you updated, continue to have live events, keep the chatter going on our forums, and have new votes for you to share your voice. Together, we will roll forward with the adventure of bringing Underworld Ascendant to life!

We’re also going to continue to crowd-fund the game, so that we can reach at least a few more of the Stretch Goals that are not reached during this Kickstarter. Understand that when other developers have done crowd-funding following a Kickstarter that the pace of funding nearly always slows way down. So it will likely take many fold longer for us to move through the upcoming stretch goals than the pace we’re on now.

A slower pace is fine. Nearly all of our efforts have gone into running this campaign the past month, and it’s time to shift focus to actually making the game now. The other consideration is that we want to do our best to get the game released by November 2016. Doing so means not extending out beyond the end of this year trying to reach new stretch goals, as otherwise we’d keep adding new features to the game and just extend the release date. So we’ll see what Stretch Goals we can reach before the end of this year, then lock things down, and focus on balancing and polish and refinement --- which take considerable time to get right.

Paypal!

Starting on Friday, March 6th, we will begin accepting PayPal as a form of payment for pledges to the game. This will be done via our website. So for those of you who use PayPal exclusively and have not been able to pledge so far to Underworld Ascendant, be sure to head over tomorrow and get on board the pledge train!

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

After having been sitting on the fence for quite some time on whether to back this Kickstarter or not, I have decided...not to.

There are too many reasons for my decision, many of which have been debated back and forth here to death.

The biggest reason, however, is that there will be other methods available later to back them later on, and I'm 99% likely to use those to support OSE and UA than Kickstarter.

Nothing wrong with deferred revenue. They will want some sales beyond pre-orders.

 

[Toxic Masculinity]

Cancelled my pledge too. Several things really irked me in this campaign.

 

[Infinitron]

$775k passed, the Necrotic Graveyard is in.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I went to $200 for the additional physical goods in the soundtrack CD and printed art book. I also get all the digital bullshit in the world at this level but a fringe benefit is checking out the art and novel without opening the physical books. Protects the collector's edition a bit.

Irrespective of campaign blunders I must support this project. The team seem rather genuine in their intent.

 

[Darkzone]

I went to $200 for the additional physical goods in the soundtrack CD and printed art book. I also get all the digital bullshit in the world at this level but a fringe benefit is checking out the art and novel without opening the physical books. Protects the collector's edition a bit. Irrespective of campaign blunders I must support this project. The team seem rather genuine in their intent.

I wanted this too. But i currently cannot, due to the shit that they have made: the fucking trinkets and etc...

 

[mindx2]

I went to $200 for the additional physical goods in the soundtrack CD and printed art book. I also get all the digital bullshit in the world at this level but a fringe benefit is checking out the art and novel without opening the physical books. Protects the collector's edition a bit. Irrespective of campaign blunders I must support this project. The team seem rather genuine in their intent.

I wanted this too. But i currently cannot, due to the shit that they have made: the fucking trinkets and etc...

Not sure why you would deny yourself the physical goodies because of a bunch of throwaway extras?

 

[Darkzone]

The problem is that once i have the opportunity to have this throwaway extras, i will always think about them. If i throw them away i will ask myself if i have done the right thing, and if i keep them i will ask myself, why i did not threw them away.
I simply want the collectors edition box, one digital version of the game, the artbook, Bertha and the novel. Nothing more. And this is not really the $200 worth.
The digital version of the game cost me $20, Bertha and the novel cost additional $10, so for 30 dollar i have half of the things. If i can buy for $130 the collectors edition and the artbook then i'm more than satisfied, without the problems of the other stuff.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Going to cross post a response I made to the Infinitron post.

If nothing else digital for-pay in game goods is very polarizing.

Anyone frustrated by disturbing trends observed in free-to-play(+win microtransactions), general microtransactions, Day1 DLC and others? In my mind, these developments in the industry are the most disgusting undermining of all that was good in PC gaming - insidious money grubbing. Unfortunately for me, it works in generating revenue.

Now, I choose to take Otherside statements on just using these items to make the campaign fun at face value.

For many people, it doesn't matter whether intentions are pure. Some people will feel that they need to take a stand on principle in the face of a barrage of monetization of fun on all platforms. At the least, they have to point out the stark contrast between the team with the secret sauce in one hand and the campaign practices in the other.

The conversation isn't about splatter seeds or coins for each 10k raised for these detractors but rather a philosophical and value (as in values) discussion. The reaction is fueled by disappointment that the campaign for this beacon cRPG excellence from the past has us faced with what we hate about the direction of the gaming industry over the past 1-2 decades.

I know many who have withdrawn their pledges because of it. Perception is reality and some will draw conclusions both on the intentions of the team in presenting these icons of decline, as well, question the team's ability to deliver on the promise.

Thought I would relay my take on the situation so Otherside can consider it (or not).

 

[Zombra]

Not sure why you would deny yourself the physical goodies because of a bunch of throwaway extras?

The problem is that once i have the opportunity to have this throwaway extras, i will always think about them. If i throw them away i will ask myself if i have done the right thing, and if i keep them i will ask myself, why i did not threw them away.

Yeah. Basically this speaks to a lack of coherence in balance and design. Oh no, a spider in the first room, but hey, I'll just shoot him with my magical backer slingshot. That was easy. Now I feel empty because I wasn't "supposed to" be able to do that. Oh no, a spider in the first room, if I'd kept that stupid slingshot I could just shoot it, now I feel annoyed because I gimped myself and I have to figure out something else. At that point there's no way to play that I can feel entirely good about. Neither way is "right" and they both feel kind of wrong.

It's not a huge deal, and none of the items are likely to have that dramatic of an impact, but the impact will be there. I'm starting off with an unpleasant taste in my mouth.

 

[stony3k]

The biggest reason, however, is that there will be other methods available later to back them later on, and I'm 99% likely to use those to support OSE and UA than Kickstarter.

I've canceled my pledge because I found myself getting less and less sure of this game. If they do bring back the incline, I'll buy it when it comes out

 

[Unkillable Cat]

The only thing I really wanted was a physical boxed copy of the game, possibly even the Collector's Edition.

Then I realized that at the end of the day I'm pre-ordering a game I don't know squat about. I want to know more before putting down my money. The soundtrack CD sounds nice, but what are the odds that they'll match the marvels of the UUW soundtrack(s)?

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Not sure why you would deny yourself the physical goodies because of a bunch of throwaway extras?

The problem is that once i have the opportunity to have this throwaway extras, i will always think about them. If i throw them away i will ask myself if i have done the right thing, and if i keep them i will ask myself, why i did not threw them away.

Yeah. Basically this speaks to a lack of coherence in balance and design. Oh no, a spider in the first room, but hey, I'll just shoot him with my magical backer slingshot. That was easy. Now I feel empty because I wasn't "supposed to" be able to do that. Oh no, a spider in the first room, if I'd kept that stupid slingshot I could just shoot it, now I feel annoyed because I gimped myself and I have to figure out something else. At that point there's no way to play that I can feel entirely good about. Neither way is "right" and they both feel kind of wrong.

It's not a huge deal, and none of the items are likely to have that dramatic of an impact, but the impact will be there. I'm starting off with an unpleasant taste in my mouth.

The problem comes with the existence of choice and our inherently bad experience simulators. Once you realize why you feel that way, you can govern it. So throw those trinkets into the lava or dump them in a nearby barrel and allow yourself to synthesize happiness. Check this out. 20 minutes well spent.

 

[DawnrazorDCLXVI]

Speaking as one, Looking Glass fanboys tend to take things seriously.

Amen.

Also, the marketing campaign to this game smells way off. They did not announce an initial vision of how the gameplay worked, or even, conceptually, a plot upfront. Their first gameplay video didn't show off anything environmentally interesting. And, lastly, their crowdfunding goals were very scattered, and misplaced, as the incentives should have increased with higher funding.

Now they plan to continue the Kickstarter, letting initial fans feel jaded, while they make off like bandits with the money. Lastly, the wording of "continuing the campaign" might have looked better if they'd simply stated "we will continue to accept donations in order to reach stretch goals, if fans are willing."

Pretty much, the game does not seem to be selling itself on initial impressions, and I am getting the same idea of what Ken Levine said drove Looking Glass under eventually--lack of foresight, and foreplanning.

Especially in the PR.

That extends to gameplay, if this continues. Still my favorite studio of all time. Fingers crossed. I pledged last second, and that money never comes back. Here's to hoping for a Looking Glass revival. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I won't back anything else unless their foreplanning shows some decency. With a decent marketing campaign they would have unlocked all those stretch goals. While I like iterations, a game that shows refinement, like Dark Souls, or Diablo, shows simply what cuttting and refining content can do while simply extrapolating on subsystems once they are sound. Diablo took an easy-to-learn, hard-to-master approach simply because it focused on compulsive loot and levelling, maxing out the treadmill made the gameplay sleek. In some ways, less is more. More cutting, less content. Nothing like a broken game the fans have to fix.

Or biting off more than you can chew.

 

[Zombra]

At that point there's no way to play that I can feel entirely good about. Neither way is "right" and they both feel kind of wrong.
It's not a huge deal, and none of the items are likely to have that dramatic of an impact, but the impact will be there. I'm starting off with an unpleasant taste in my mouth.

The problem comes with the existence of choice and our inherently bad experience simulators. Once you realize why you feel that way, you can govern it. So throw those trinkets into the lava or dump them in a nearby barrel and allow yourself to synthesize happiness. Check this out. 20 minutes well spent.

Yeah, I realize that part of the problem is on my side of the keyboard, and there are things I can do about that, but it's not a position I enjoy being put in in the first place. (I'll try to check out the video later. )

 

[Bubbles]

They did not announce an initial vision of how the gameplay worked, or even, conceptually, a plot upfront..

The plot will be based on lore established in the Hickman novel, which first had to be funded, and now has to be written. Then they'll write the game's plot, start implementing it, and then they'll start talking about it. Patience.

 

[DawnrazorDCLXVI]

I asked them about sanity effects, and they mentioned potentially putting it in, as well as throwing out a mention of Amnesia: the Dark Descent.

I am getting the same feeling about this about how Looking Glass studios went under. Lack of foreplanning.

Especially in the PR department.

If their stretch goals had made sense, their initial concept presented strongly, and the gamepay video presented something compelling, they would have made more money. As it is, they are continuing donations on their main site, badly worded I might add, as well as now the initial kickstarter fans might feel jaded, especially those that threw them last minute donations, like me last night.

Their marketing team definitely needs some work. I hope the gameplay is stronger than the initial presentation. Nothing like biting off more than you can chew. Stuff like this should be worked out on a dry erase board in advance.

 

[DawnrazorDCLXVI]

They did not announce an initial vision of how the gameplay worked, or even, conceptually, a plot upfront..

The plot will be based on lore established in the Hickman novel, which first had to be funded, and now has to be written. Then they'll write the game's plot, start implementing it, and then they'll start talking about it. Patience.

I agree, I suppose to clarify, they did not present a compelling central vision, in such a way that it stood out from its peers. First impressions can make or break a kickstarter project, in the same way they can make or break a job interview. What they needed was more distinction, something to stand out from their peers.

 

[Darkzone]

The problem comes with the existence of choice and our inherently bad experience simulators. Once you realize why you feel that way, you can govern it. So throw those trinkets into the lava or dump them in a nearby barrel and allow yourself to synthesize happiness. Check this out. 20 minutes well spent.

I know this video (watched it several times), but this does not apply to me. I have homozygote herited the not so happy gene. I wish i would be dane, because they have often the happy gene. And i have also a very good and long memory. This things together are very bad combination. But on the otherside 'haha' in situations where others a depressed or down or whatever, i'm remain functioning an i feel normal. One man's hell, is the paradise of an other man. Genes are freaky. My memory does not let me go away from problems, and this is such a problem. I try to avoid such things all together. Therefore for me this is situation, that will remain throughout the whole game.

 

[Infinitron]

cuttting and refining content...made the gameplay sleek. In some ways, less is more. More cutting, less content...Or biting off more than you can chew.

http://www.othersideentertainment.com/forum/index.php?topic=461.msg6914#msg6914

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Jesus that's a long post. Was that the Hickman novel?

 

[Infinitron]

Jesus that's a long post. Was that the Hickman novel?

It's somebody's novel.

I am going to raise my pledge from $20 to $35 in the next few minutes. If somebody wants a $20 slot, now's your chance.

 

[Maelflux]

Jesus that's a long post. Was that the Hickman novel?

Depends. Did you pay add-on money to read it?..