KickStarter Underworld Ascendant Pre-Prototype Thread

[Aenra]

"A fireproof mushroom boat for crossing lava"

This was in jest, right? A premature April fools' day statement. I mean this is still the game to supersede Ultima Underworlds in their mind. Right?
I do have to hand it to them however, they force you not to become a fanboy. Very, very healthy attitude.

 

[Immortal]

Zep's been gone for a month now; maybe even he couldn't muster the energy to pay attention to these updates anymore.

Bubbles--

At least PoE is so bad it's good.. This game is just fucking sad...

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

There is no game yet to say that about.. you are commenting on their Kickstarter-fu which indeed is weak. I would not go further than that.

I may despair if I hadn't witnessed the genius previously. I have and for that reason I will judge them on the game and not their forum skills.

 

[Infinitron]

Developers play it safe: "This game has no soul!"

Developers brainstorm and enjoy themselves: "Omg you hacks, we just wanted a dungeon crawler."

 

[Junmarko]

Have they hinted when they'll have a working demo available? I trust these guys to follow through with a good game, but I'm starting to hate these KS projects that get funded without having even a slice of gameplay to show. Makes me, less optimistic.

 

[Infinitron]

Have they hinted when they'll have a working demo available? I trust these guys to follow through with a good game, but I'm starting to hate these KS projects that get funded without having even a slice of gameplay to show. Makes me, less optimistic.

In March they said: http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=9813

Prototype build sometime during Q4 2015.

Pre-Alpha build sometime during Q1 2016.

Backers at the $300 and above tiers actually get access to the prototype, so we should be seeing footage of that. Of course, there could be delays. Most past Kickstarters haven't shown serious gameplay footage at that stage (10 months after KS for Wasteland 2, more for others)

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Developers play it safe: "This game has no soul!"

Developers brainstorm and enjoy themselves: "Omg you hacks, we just wanted a dungeon crawler."

It's almost as if different people wanted different things from games.

 

[Excidium II]

 

[AwesomeButton]

I've gone through this thread and all the KS updates. I'm betting on this game being freeform and original, the Looking Glass way. Looking forward to it. I'm glad I backed it when I could. I also think the team's language and preference in what to show about the game demonstrates they know very well what they are doing and what they are talking about. I'd always put my trust in a bunch of geeks who have a hard time explaining their ideas in moron terms, rather than in a bunch of bullshit salesmen emitting false excitement in their updates.

 

[Aenra]

Good for you. At least you said the magic word; "betting"

Myself, and it could be because i am ignorant, definitely and feel free to correct me, but i see it differently. Ideas you see, do not cost. Ideas in fact are the primary reason this fucked up collection of mamboons has managed to progress as much as it has. They cost nothing, and can additionaly come to anyone. The high and the low, the proficient and the clueless. Ideas. Nothing tangible, just the ideas.

When you have been "thinking" about a spiritual sequel to a game for years, when past that amount of time, you have reached a moment in time where what you envision allows to feel comfortable enough to pitch it as a KS campaign? Myself? I'd be waiting to hear just those very fucking ideas you are meant to have had. In aaall this time. No ingame videos, no technical details, just a diagram or whatever other visual way you'd so please to employ where your ideas would be there for me to read, and judge. This and this and that, with x and y and z, here are those, such is the why i want to capitalise on a or b a tech and so on. Ideas.

So when i see you, months and months after having taken people's money, still fucking contemplating on whethers and ifs and fucking floating summoned mushrooms of lava-proof+3 ?... well, i would most definitely not find you as someone trustworthy, to say the least. But that is just me.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

They have done a fair bit of what you are talking about, largely on systems, AI, etc. You can check the Other side forums for more information.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Arx is actually fairly heavily scripted, has lots of cutscenes and was mechanically stiff as compared to UW. The atmosphere and audio they nailed particularly in the early levels. They did a nice job of leveraging more recent tech.

To me Arx was a letdown, and that's why people had been antipating Arx 2 from the get go. It was clear what they were trying to make a game that captured the same athmosphere as the classic. In that respect it was strange that similarities were just superficial. You could do everything you expected, but only once or twice. Levels should have been huge but felt actually smaller.
At least that's how I perceived it. Every level felt like a different game, some were good, some atrocious. The good stuff was sandwiched between huge amounts of shit. Since progression was linear I lost interest along the way.

The few things they did really well like the mechanical puzzles and the prison level felt not organic and you knew that they had not thought things through. I felt the prison was just there to make the game look like something that it wasnt. And I dont understand why they did not build an engine to facilitare multiple levels like the prison, without the player feeling "tricked" by a Potemkin's village.

I think they did not understand what UU was about. It was not just about a guy escaping from a dungeon. But about a game that made use of completely geometrical levels, with state of the art physics and all mechanics you would expect like: swimming, diving, climbing, flying etc. It was supposed to be a game that you wanted to play because the engine was so great (at its time), but the Arx engine wasnt impressive at alll.

This is all the more frustrating because it seems so easy. 3 dimensional levels + good textures, graphics and ambient sound + physics engine = basic UU engine. The rest would still require someone with skill, but so far no one even attempted the basic engine. Early Frictional games were a glimpse what would have been possible if just 1 capable developer would take up the idea, without requiring a multi million dollar budget.

 

[Immortal]

Myself, and it could be because i am ignorant, definitely and feel free to correct me, but i see it differently.

Nah, I think you are pretty on point.
Nobody is saying not to have idea's but these guys are making it up as they go along and slowly that KS money wittles down as they shoot the shit in their office talking about this and that.

At some point you have to actually make the game.. (Unity Proof of Concepts != A Video Game)

I have seen this so many times in this industry.
Everyone wants to talk about their ideas and their pipe dreams in game development (actually any development) - Then when it comes time to sit down and write some code, it's a fucking ghost town.
Like someone flipped on the lights of reality and all the pipe dreaming arm chair designing cockroaches scattered beneath the fridges and furniture.

 

[Mustawd]

Exactly. If they had some real progress they'd show it.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

So neither of you are familiar or comfortable with large or long running projects. So what? They aren't responsible to appease you.

 

[Mustawd]

So neither of you are familiar or comfortable with large or long running projects. So what? They aren't responsible to appease you.

When did we say they were? And it's not long running projects per se. But don't you just get the feelz that these guys are just sitting around and theorizing on how to make a game rather than sitting down and grinding it out?

I mean if not, then wtf have they been doing this whole time?

 

[Immortal]

So neither of you are familiar or comfortable with large or long running projects. So what.

I work full-time as a software developer and most projects run 16 - 24 months Design -> Production.
Then there is post-release support.

We generally have a full story board after our first sprint planning meeting. Yes design goes on and things are refactored in later sprints but this team is complete ass backwards.
I can tell you right now our system architects / SCRUM masters don't sit around in a board room for 8 months talking about bullshit before we even start developing, we start coding day one.

Not Prototypes Either - Actual Stories that enter a code review process for QA / Prod Deployment. Proof of Concept is done before you get your project budget. You don't blow your budget tinkering around to see if stuff works.

Keep talking out your ass though. I love when arm chair professionals explain shit to me.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

So in your view, their posting this type of update leads you to conclude that they have nothing to show? When they showed a prototype at the beginning of the KS, other short sighted fucksticks belly ached about the graphics. It stands to reason they want to get it to a certain level before showing more.

Also don't presume to tell me what I am or what I know. That type of ignorance speaks more about you than anyone else and isn't becoming for a "professional".

 

[Mustawd]

Also don't presume to tell me what I am or what I know. That type of ignorance speaks more about you than anyone else and isn't becoming for a "professional".

I thought you were a doctor


I think in the post kickstarter years a lot of us are super sensitive to has-been developers trying to get back in the game and their perceived waste of resources and time. There are a lot of examples of a learning curve with new tools, bad project management, lack of good decision-making, etc. I mean just look at the Coles and their Hero U game. It's a perfect example of having to learn on the job because it's been forever since they've made a real game.

 

[Immortal]

So neither of you are familiar or comfortable with large or long running projects. So what? They aren't responsible to appease you.

Also don't presume to tell me what I am or what I know. That type of ignorance speaks more about you than anyone else and isn't becoming for a "professional".

Isn't that exactly what you just did?
I mean did you really just type that without a hint of introspective irony?

So in your view, their posting this type of update leads you to conclude that they have nothing to show? When they showed a prototype at the beginning of the KS, other short sighted fucksticks belly ached about the graphics. It stands to reason they want to get it to a certain level before showing more.

Their third or forth update was something along the lines of "We aren't sure.. but we think Unity can support dynamic only lighting" Spoiler: no it can't.
They have no idea what the edge cases of performance or capability is in Unity and yet all their prototyping and updates so far are for that engine.

They did everything backwards of what a company should do. (If your curious how a KS should be done please look at Obsidian / InXile)

Obsidian & InXile:

> Prototype a level in a new Engine
> Test Mechanics and design basic functionality
> Plan how they can create a work flow loop / Content Pipeline and how long that takes
> Go to KS with prototype and information of findings and semi-accurate budgets
> Ask for a reasonable sum of money and hope for more


This Shit Fest:

> Prototype nothing
> Vomit Pipe Dreams on a page
> Ask for lots of money
> Spend Money prototyping in a engine you have no prior research or skillset in
> Spend 6 months talking about more ideas and scope creep and still prototype ideas
> Run out of money and ask for more

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

When did we say they were? And it's not long running projects per se. But don't you just get the feelz that these guys are just sitting around and theorizing on how to make a game rather than sitting down and grinding it out?

I mean if not, then wtf have they been doing this whole time?

Who knows really? I will wait for the alpha and judge first hand. Maybe it ends up being shit but I'm not going to suppose without information.

We know they aren't great with the PR. Look at TSI as a comparable, they aren't great with PR either but I won't use that to come to conclusions on their new game.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Isn't that exactly what you just did?
I mean did you really just type that without a hint of introspective irony?

If you don't make the connections then whatever. If you don't know what I mean, I'm not about to argue based on your misunderstanding.

 

[Burning Bridges]

The kickstarter is over a year old, and they haven't even shown a prototype. Personally I would not even feel comfortable talking about a prototype before if I hadnt tested the technology. These guys apparently took up the responsibility to deliver a game and funds for 10-20 man years, then spend 1 year looking at technology and may now be showing a prototype. What will happen now? Either the prototype sucks or the money is already used up?

 

[Infinitron]

The Kickstarter was funded in March.

They did everything backwards of what a company should do. (If your curious how a KS should be done please look at Obsidian / InXile)

Obsidian & InXile:

> Prototype a level in a new Engine
> Test Mechanics and design basic functionality
> Plan how they can create a work flow loop / Content Pipeline and how long that takes
> Go to KS with prototype and information of findings and semi-accurate budgets
> Ask for a reasonable sum of money and hope for more

You sure do like reminding people that you weren't actually following Kickstarter back in 2012

 

[Immortal]

If you don't make the connections then whatever. If you don't know what I mean, I'm not about to argue based on your misunderstanding.

You actually didn't explain anything here either. I can barely see the goal posts after this post.

My Point:
You are a hypocrite - accusing me of never working on a large project but in the same breath condemning me for saying you have no technical background.

You sure do like reminding people that you weren't actually following Kickstarter back in 2012

Your gonna have to be a bit less passive aggressive - I don't know what I am wrong about there.