KickStarter Underworld Ascendant Pre-Release Thread

[Curratum]

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic?

 

[Hines]

When did the studio start scaling back on their initial ambitions for Underworld in favor of a more modest project? Can anyone outline what's been dropped outside of enemies and the living environment and the dialogue system? I must of missed that Kickstarter update.

 

[McPlusle]

what the fuck is dm mom

Dark Messiah

 

[Nyast]

When did the studio start scaling back on their initial ambitions for Underworld in favor of a more modest project? Can anyone outline what's been dropped outside of enemies and the living environment and the dialogue system? I must of missed that Kickstarter update.

They cut the main factions off, now you can only interact with them via the lizardmen representatives, which I believe are the only "intelligent" faction hub in the game.

There are no levels or experience or even player attributes beyond health/mana bars. There's a skill tree to unlock but it's exactly what you imagine it to be: most skills are useless / bland. The way to earn more skills is to acquire "memoras", which are "imprinted memories of accomplishments" in the dungeon. They've gone full retard with that system IMO and it's as stupid as it sounds. When you act as a hero ( read: doing a jump while finishing off a skeleton ) you arouse the Lizardmen which pay you with memoras. Feats they call it. Not kidding here.

They cut off saving anywhere in a level, and they cut off persistency ( levels reset each time you visit them ).

However the big elephant in the room is that they've cut off the interconnected dungeon which totally kills immersion and the spirit of UU for me. I'm not talking about making the dungeon seamless: the original UU still had "teleporters", but those were hidden behind doors / staircases and the floors were logically connected. This is not the case here: there are magical teleporters that activate at the hub city, you get to a level, do your mission ( as in: fetch or kill quests. Don't expect anything interesting there ), and when the objective is done a teleporter to the hub city opens up nearby. Oh, and you'll be greeted by an end-of-mission summary screen that tells you how good you did in terms of fighting, exploration or stealth. In the beta, it always detected your actions wrong and rated you max stealth despite bouncing around at full speed with your sword on every enemy.

There's no sense of spatiality or "going deeper" with the levels, they might as well be in other dimensions with their design.

The real question to ask is: what remains from the UU spirit ? Well, mostly 2 things: despite the levels not being connected, each individual level has some nice complexity ( but not as good as UU maps ) and verticality, which I would say is better than your typical modern Skyrim-like dungeon. They also kept the magical, rune-based system, so the joy of looting new runes and discovering spells is still there. And that's pretty much it, at least for me. All the rest is a different game and isn't worthy of being called UU.

 

[BEvers]

I must of missed that Kickstarter update.

They've discussed the biggest cuts exclusively on their forums and never mentioned them to their Kickstarter community. A lot of people will be very surprised tomorrow.

 

[Latelistener]

what the fuck is dm mom

I guess he meant DMoMM, but

no sleep

takes a toll.

 

[Funposter]

tfw no mommy dm

 

[Sinatar]

Have they said when product keys are going out?

 

[sk2k]

10 hours till release and still no reviews.

 

[taxalot]

"The embargo is over ! Expect reviews any time !", screamed the man from Otherside Entertainment. But the hours passed, and there was only a deafening silence.

"It's probably because they're too busy playing and enjoying it !" he told to the QA guy next to him. The silence was only deepening. QA guy disappeared into corner.

And finally there was noise : sobs.

 

[Curratum]

I keep asking Otherside for reviews and they keep telling me the embargo is over, then linking dev-sponsored streams, while casually mentioning that it's a small indie game and it may not get the amount of coverage AAA gets.

 

[Tweed]

It's gonna suck.

 

[Parabalus]

Is this at least decent as a DMoMM game?

 

[Curratum]

Is this at least decent as a DMoMM game?

Oh, god, no. Here, have a sample of the dynamic and exciting combat they've prepared for you!

https://youtu.be/gubgZyyNH28?t=413

 

[Lyre Mors]

Goddamn this game looks really bad. They fucked up.

 

[LESS T_T]

https://www.rpgsite.net/interview/7...ent-is-putting-player-agency-front-and-center

Note: This interview was conducted via email so the questions you see are those I sent to the team initially.

RPG Site: Let's start with something I feel is so important. What does the legacy of Ultima mean to you?

Warren Spector: Ultima means so much to me. Playing Ultima IV convinced me that games could be about something more than just killing monsters – they could express important themes, just like any other medium, but instead of just talking to readers or viewers, games can be a conversation about those themes involving both designer and player. Richard Garriott got that. Playing Ultima VI was another Ultima game that changed the way I think about games. It was while I was working on that game that I first saw a player solve a problem in a way that wasn’t pre-planned, that surprised me even though I “knew” how players were “supposed” to solve the problem. That was hugely important to me. Still is.

RPG Site: This next question is for Paul Neurath. Underworld Ascendant has been something of a pet project for many years, ever since OtherSide Entertainment’s inception. I'd love to learn more about the history of how this project was originally conceived, and what you hope to show to audiences, especially those who may have never played an Ultima game.

Paul Neurath: When we finished Ultima Underworld II in 1993, the plan was to make a sequel. Those plans got put on the back burner for a few decades as it turns out. Then 4 years ago, EA gave us the opportunity for our studio to take the franchise forward on our own, sans the “Ultima” fictional elements (together with the System Shock franchise). That was the genesis of OtherSide Entertainment.

While Underworld Ascendant is not a direct sequel of the original Underworld games, it does carry forward much of the gameplay DNA, along with select fictional elements, such as the setting in the Stygian Abyss, characters from the original game, the Lizardman language, and more. Fans of the original series will come across a bunch of fun references to the originals. For those who never played the original games, there is no need to know the original backstory to dive into Underworld Ascendant as we introduce the essential fictional elements as they play.

One thing that was important to us was to avoid focusing too much on the nostalgia of the original games. We wanted to take the game forward into the modern era, and to innovate. The original spirit of the Underworld series was all about innovation. We want to remain true to that spirit, which matters most.

RPG Site: Also, for Paul, what it’s like working on a franchise you've been a part of for decades, alongside many of the same people who were with you back then?

Paul Neurath: Pretty darn fun. I had nearly given up hope that we could ever revisit Underworld.It’s pretty wonderful we at long last get the opportunity to revitalize the series with some of the super talented folks who made the original games, along with the original System Shock and Thief games.

Warren Spector, you certainly have a storied history with the Ultima franchise since your Looking Glass Studios days. Please tell us a little bit about what the Ultima series means to you, and how you became involved with Underworld Ascendant in your current role.

Warren Spector: I already answered what Ultima means to me so I won’t repeat myself here. How I got involved is simple: Paul Neurath, who I’ve known for almost thirty years now, told me he was starting a new studio to make a new Underworld game and a new System Shock game and was I interested in joining him in starting the company. How could I say “no?” My primary responsibility was – and is – to System Shock 3, but I wasn’t about to let anyone (not even Paul and his team) make an Underworld game without providing some input. I’ve tried to help out any way I could and in any way the team wanted me to. You’d have to ask them how helpful I’ve been!

RPG Site: I want to turn this one to Joe Fielder. Your tenure in this industry has been filled with more action-oriented experiences like BioShock Infinite, Star Wars Battlefront II, and the most action-oriented of them all, Boom Blox. Underworld Ascendant is certainly a very different type of game, with its high fantasy setting and what not, so I would love to know what your approach has been to work on this title? Additionally, the work you have put into balancing the lore of the series for those stalwart fans out there who played the Ultima Underworld games.

Joe Fielder: My approach to working on this title was to embrace the Looking Glass philosophies surrounding player choice and ensure that we give the player interesting challenges, a wide variety of tools and an interactive world, then let them decide how to solve them.

I also felt like it was vitally important for the game narrative to tie deeply into the gameplay, rather than be divorced from it as in a lot of games. The Stygian Abyss is an incredibly dangerous environment. It’s a liminal space where the barriers between other dimensions are thin and deadly creatures from beyond have made it their home. So, the society that’s developed there in the settlement of Marcaul prizes key survival knowledge. They trade in it in fact, using magical artifacts called Memora that preserve memories. That’s one of the ways that we’ve taken the series’ lore forward, but we’re also delving deeper into its past with the return of the Cabirus, a character from the series’ backstory who is played by Stephen Russell (Garrett from Thief: The Dark Project).

If you haven’t played the previous games, you’ll definitely be able to dive into Underworld Ascendant and know everything you need, but there’s plenty of ties into the series’ past for longtime fans. Some are more front and center, like Cabirus and references to the lizard man Ishtass, while some are deeper, harder to find easter eggs for those who like to hunt for them.

RPG Site: There's this huge emphasis on player creativity and player freedom - tackling the obstacles ahead of them as they see fit. So many other games try to accomplish this type of feature. I would be interested in learning more about why you all feel player agency is so crucial in terms of Underworld’s game's design and on a broader perspective?

Warren Spector: Player agency is, for me, what games are all about. Allowing players to participate in the story-telling process, in the authorial process, is, maybe, the one thing that differentiates us from other media. That being the case, I think it’s almost a moral imperative to take advantage of what we do that other media can’t. I’ve been lucky to work with folks like Richard Garriott and Paul Neurath who see how important it is to empower players to craft their own, unique experiences.

Joe Fielder: Our lead designer Tim Stellmach tells a story from the Looking Glass days, back when he was the lead designer on Thief: The Dark Project. The game had just come out and the first official print strategy guide arrived. He opened it up to read about a level he’d worked on, saw a very authoritative description of how to beat it, and said, “Oh! You can do that?!” That to me is a great example of the player choice of Looking Glass games and the depth of the immersive sim opportunities within them.

For Underworld Ascendant, we wanted to have both, but also reward the players for engaging and exploring with those systems. At the end of the day, you can play the game however you like, but if you dig into the depth of the gameplay systems, you’ll find there are dozens and dozens of different options beyond simply swinging a sword or firing a bow. It’s immensely satisfying when we have new people play Underworld Ascendant and they come up with solutions we’ve never seen before, based on reasonable assumptions of how the logic-based systems ruling the world work. And it’s happened often, which is great.

RPG Site: Finally, to put a ribbon on this, it would be great if you all would provide a message to fans who have been waiting for a new Ultima title.

Warren Spector: The real answer is that fans of Ultima will still have to wait! Underworld Ascendant shares many characteristics with Ultima games, but it isn’t, technically, an Ultima game itself. If you love those games, we think you’ll love Ascendant, but while we’ve incorporated some elements of the original Underworld lore, Ascendant is set in a universe all its own. Gameplay similarities will be there, sure, but in terms of setting, story and the most modern approach to gameplay, we’re unique.

 

[Ranarama]

Wow. Slasher's Keep is a much better UU successor than this.

 

[Whisper]

Is this game going to be good?

 

[taxalot]

Is this game going to be good?

It could be worse than Shroud of the Avatar as far as Ultima successors go, so in a way, it's pretty awesome.

 

[Bastardchops]

Get Hyped boizzzz.

 

[Bastardchops]

After playing Call of Cthulhu and thinking it would be an RPG this is going to be like the cheap tropical fruit drink chaser to a glass of dishwater.

 

[CyberWhale]

GOG has BT4 though, so "screening for quality" doesn't sound very plausible.

I don't think Underworld Ascendant will end up being anything but mediocre at best, but fuck GOG and their choosing policy.

 

[Curratum]

Let's not throw a fit over GOG before we know why exactly it was declined.

 

[CyberWhale]

This isn't the first time/game that it happened. GOG are fucking retards, plain and simple.

 

[Big Wrangle]

Didn't they reject a puzzle game a while back because it looked something that can easily be ported to mobile which is like any puzzle game ever, then revert the decision when people called them out on it?