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Incline Unreal Evolution Mod: Now Released
- Thread starter Ash
- Start date
Where do I sign up? On moddb?
Ash
Arcane
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Preferably via discord where you can report bugs and such in real time: Discord.gg
If this is not ideal for you, then I can PM you.
If this is not ideal for you, then I can PM you.
DraQ
Arcane
Ash
A few suggestions, if you don't mind:
Stinger:
The shake effect is too strong and looks unnatural, doesn't fit with the firing anim. Altfire sound is also worse than original.
The main issue with Stinger is that it's effectively a poor man's minigun in primary and poor man's flak in secondary. What it needs is a unique flavour.
I don't have any fully crystallized idea, but in regards to stinger and minigun you could borrow a few ideas from Q2's chaingun and hyperblaster - yes, it's a poor game, but those two weapons were interestingly done and had interesting quirks setting them apart even though they were both essentially variants of rapid fire spamgun - CG took time to spin up, but achieved obscene rates of fire when it did, it also continued shooting until spun down making it very wasteful, HB could be fired in controlled manner, but couldn't be re-fired when spinning down so you had to commit to stopping fire (and know when to do it as the weapon was not hitscan). Stinger's altfire could be made less of a shotgun, more of a rapid, controlled, focused burst, making it more of an AR to minigun's MG. Maybe add some ricochet+shatter behaviour to flat angle shots.
GESBiorifle:
Altfire makes no sense in the context of the weapon's concept. The gun looks like a very simple, mechanical contraption - a backpack with a tank, pipe, piston. It's not a freaky energy blaster, it's a chemical super-soaker, even if the chemical in question is setting's green rocks. It makes no sense for it to fire energy vortices or whatever. OTOH original biorifle is very niche (only really great against pupae) and disappointing waste of firing mode (you could emulate primary by tapping secondary). It is also a disappointing waste of an opportunity to give Unreal a flamethrower, so:
ASMD:
Penetrating primary loses cool visual feedback in the form of weapon's signature impact shockwave, and looks like a cheap ripoff of Q2's railgun.
I propose:
More damage (to make it appealing when you also have automag), rate of fire turned to as much as the netcode can take, more wasteful (crib some stuff from Q2's CG).
Maybe different altfire, possibly also mobility reduction when firing (worked well in Xidia/7B).
Razorjack:
The main problem is it being a non-hitscan rifle that ricochets. Ricochets are situationally useful or risky, but they don't change weapon's use that much most of the time, not being hitscan OTOH makes a huge difference.
Solution - make blades keep going after they hit someone allowing you to score several hits or even beheadings with one blade when firing into closed space.
Also, since RJ clearly propels it's blades electrically (it's not a powder based weapon, but it has a lot of cables and shit), make it work with the amp - very fast, high damage blades (with bright, fiery trails), passing through enemies and exploding on impact with hard surfaces (preferably into a ring of shrapnel in plane of the blade NOT of the wall).
Possible other additions:
It's a great weapon with not much to change, except for the altfire dodging, and altfire explosion having slight offset from impact point or proximity fuse(to avoid altfire being so powerful on direct impact direct and to give better shrapnel behaviour). Possibly buff altfire's explosion and amount of shrapnel if it is too weak when used with indirect fire.
Also, old sounds (but louder and more boomy - it should sound like someone loaded a shotgun with claymore).
Eightball:
It's disappointing that it is not the weapon to be used to kill titans and shit and it feels a bit weak.
Add the originally planned 3x burst as altfire. Add scope item (added to your inventory when you first pick up rifle) to switch between zoom and burst altfire.
Dispersion Pistol:
Shuffle primary and secondary fire traits a bit - one fires for 1 ammo, rapidly (possibly even faster with upgrades) and benefits from the increased magazine, the other can be charges, increases in baseline power and ammo consumption (with charge on top of that) and changes colour. Maybe put splash on the rapid one for change. Maybe consider projectile patterns reflecting changing forms of the gun as it worked in beta, consider additional upgrades, like projectile speed tweaks.
All hitscans (maybe save for ASMD):
Replace hitscan with very fast projectiles. Should be more inline with Unreal's gameplay and be warpzone friendly.
All weapons:
Moar damage, tweak enemies offensive power and mobility to balance.
All projectiles:
Add water ring and water splash when entering water zone, add bubble trails.
Dodging:
Dodgy enemies should dodge optimally. The only reason to not dodge all the time is avoiding predictibility and weaker, less skilled enemies.
Krall:
you could boost their ground speed a bit, they look like they are built for running. Make them attack in groups more often too.
Skaarj Warriors:
Razik as the only weapon is boring and weak. For Skaarj that aren't completely naked (all but warriors) add projectile throw additional attack to make them more interesting. The projectile in question could be something like razor blade (or a whole bunch) or grenade, depending on Skaarj class. Warriors could get acid spit and better mobility. Some of the melee attack anims, esp. spinny ones could be workable for making it look right.
Warlord:
Give his gun some more interesting fire modes.
Lesser brutes:
Their skin looks like they have bandoliers full of flak shells instead of rockets. You know what to do (you might want to swap skins instead if it gives them too much power, but remember that it looks less armoured, also no matter what happens NyLeve needs some rocket firing brutes to be consistent with translator messages - or changed messages).
All humanoid (more or less enemies):
Give them armour matching their looks, more or less, using actual degradable armour and inventory system.
A few suggestions, if you don't mind:
Stinger:
The shake effect is too strong and looks unnatural, doesn't fit with the firing anim. Altfire sound is also worse than original.
The main issue with Stinger is that it's effectively a poor man's minigun in primary and poor man's flak in secondary. What it needs is a unique flavour.
I don't have any fully crystallized idea, but in regards to stinger and minigun you could borrow a few ideas from Q2's chaingun and hyperblaster - yes, it's a poor game, but those two weapons were interestingly done and had interesting quirks setting them apart even though they were both essentially variants of rapid fire spamgun - CG took time to spin up, but achieved obscene rates of fire when it did, it also continued shooting until spun down making it very wasteful, HB could be fired in controlled manner, but couldn't be re-fired when spinning down so you had to commit to stopping fire (and know when to do it as the weapon was not hitscan). Stinger's altfire could be made less of a shotgun, more of a rapid, controlled, focused burst, making it more of an AR to minigun's MG. Maybe add some ricochet+shatter behaviour to flat angle shots.
GESBiorifle:
Altfire makes no sense in the context of the weapon's concept. The gun looks like a very simple, mechanical contraption - a backpack with a tank, pipe, piston. It's not a freaky energy blaster, it's a chemical super-soaker, even if the chemical in question is setting's green rocks. It makes no sense for it to fire energy vortices or whatever. OTOH original biorifle is very niche (only really great against pupae) and disappointing waste of firing mode (you could emulate primary by tapping secondary). It is also a disappointing waste of an opportunity to give Unreal a flamethrower, so:
- Make one firing mode an old primary/secondary hybrid - you can tap to shoot little blobs rapidly or charge-up a big blob (and make it splatter like in UT).
- Make the other firing mode a fucking green-hued flamethrower, setting green hued fire to affected enemies.
- Add a combo fire: releasing blobs and holding flamethrower together creates bouncy flaming AOE blob (think Blood's napalm thrower altfire, only green).
ASMD:
Penetrating primary loses cool visual feedback in the form of weapon's signature impact shockwave, and looks like a cheap ripoff of Q2's railgun.
I propose:
- Primary fire works like original (possibly with a bit more momentum transfer), but on impact it also generates a vortex (like the one you made for biorifle, only blue - it would be a shame to waste a cool idea) that slowly continues through and past the target. When amped, the vortex is red/orange and powerful.
- Altfire has very broad AOE, but restricted to a plane - it can affect many targets if they are touching the surface hit, but not if they for example jump or move away from the wall. Add visual shock effects if target is affected.
- Combo spawns vrief stationary purple vortex that sucks in and murders stuff in addition to what it does in vanilla. Cool and consistent with later UTs.
- All modes have high stagger and momentum transfer (it's an electric gun, after all).
More damage (to make it appealing when you also have automag), rate of fire turned to as much as the netcode can take, more wasteful (crib some stuff from Q2's CG).
Maybe different altfire, possibly also mobility reduction when firing (worked well in Xidia/7B).
Razorjack:
The main problem is it being a non-hitscan rifle that ricochets. Ricochets are situationally useful or risky, but they don't change weapon's use that much most of the time, not being hitscan OTOH makes a huge difference.
Solution - make blades keep going after they hit someone allowing you to score several hits or even beheadings with one blade when firing into closed space.
Also, since RJ clearly propels it's blades electrically (it's not a powder based weapon, but it has a lot of cables and shit), make it work with the amp - very fast, high damage blades (with bright, fiery trails), passing through enemies and exploding on impact with hard surfaces (preferably into a ring of shrapnel in plane of the blade NOT of the wall).
Possible other additions:
- Redeemer-like guidance (with freaky skaarj-y HUD) instead of what is in vanilla
- Alt-fire (vertical blades) with ballistic trajectories (no lift, good for trick shots), guidance decoupled from primary/alt fire (tap to fire normally, hold to guide)
It's a great weapon with not much to change, except for the altfire dodging, and altfire explosion having slight offset from impact point or proximity fuse(to avoid altfire being so powerful on direct impact direct and to give better shrapnel behaviour). Possibly buff altfire's explosion and amount of shrapnel if it is too weak when used with indirect fire.
Also, old sounds (but louder and more boomy - it should sound like someone loaded a shotgun with claymore).
Eightball:
It's disappointing that it is not the weapon to be used to kill titans and shit and it feels a bit weak.
- Titans and other huge enemies should be resistant to most normal attacks (bullets, except sniper rifle's, shrapnel, slime), rather than rockets.
- Rockets (but not grenades) should deal a lot of additional, non-explosive damage on direct impact.
- Rockets should get their pre-patch whistling sound back, it was really starling when one flew right over your head.
- Rockets should not despawn but switch to falling, while inheriting previous momentum when their lifetime ends.
Add the originally planned 3x burst as altfire. Add scope item (added to your inventory when you first pick up rifle) to switch between zoom and burst altfire.
Dispersion Pistol:
Shuffle primary and secondary fire traits a bit - one fires for 1 ammo, rapidly (possibly even faster with upgrades) and benefits from the increased magazine, the other can be charges, increases in baseline power and ammo consumption (with charge on top of that) and changes colour. Maybe put splash on the rapid one for change. Maybe consider projectile patterns reflecting changing forms of the gun as it worked in beta, consider additional upgrades, like projectile speed tweaks.
All hitscans (maybe save for ASMD):
Replace hitscan with very fast projectiles. Should be more inline with Unreal's gameplay and be warpzone friendly.
All weapons:
Moar damage, tweak enemies offensive power and mobility to balance.
All projectiles:
Add water ring and water splash when entering water zone, add bubble trails.
Dodging:
Dodgy enemies should dodge optimally. The only reason to not dodge all the time is avoiding predictibility and weaker, less skilled enemies.
Krall:
you could boost their ground speed a bit, they look like they are built for running. Make them attack in groups more often too.
Skaarj Warriors:
Razik as the only weapon is boring and weak. For Skaarj that aren't completely naked (all but warriors) add projectile throw additional attack to make them more interesting. The projectile in question could be something like razor blade (or a whole bunch) or grenade, depending on Skaarj class. Warriors could get acid spit and better mobility. Some of the melee attack anims, esp. spinny ones could be workable for making it look right.
Warlord:
Give his gun some more interesting fire modes.
Lesser brutes:
Their skin looks like they have bandoliers full of flak shells instead of rockets. You know what to do (you might want to swap skins instead if it gives them too much power, but remember that it looks less armoured, also no matter what happens NyLeve needs some rocket firing brutes to be consistent with translator messages - or changed messages).
All humanoid (more or less enemies):
Give them armour matching their looks, more or less, using actual degradable armour and inventory system.
Ash
Arcane
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- Oct 16, 2015
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- 7,107
Shake has been toned down.
Strongly Disagree. Vanilla is weak...on it's own. It's now two sounds, the vanilla and a new one.
Or it could just be changed into a more competent and more satisfying shotgun as I already have. Yeah it's similar in concept to the Flak Cannon primary fire but this is vanilla design, and I try to be faithful with few exceptions (currently Bio Rifle Alt Fire is the only content replacement made in the game, period).
Minigun has had a dam buff. A bugfix or two. Various new effects. I think it's perfect.
Good suggestions. The razorjack of course has also been faithfully refined, but additions like making it work with the Amp don't hurt if executed well
Flak has old sound + additional boomy sound. It's niiicee.
Definitely some stuff to consider here. Though it makes sense that they have minor reduction to rockets (20% now as opposed to vanilla 30%) as they're yuge, very easy to hit with multi-chambered rockets, the levels seem to encourage Eball use against them (almost always gives you Eball ammo just before) and they're good practice for getting used to the Eball's multi-functionality.
There's a ROF mod.
There's ROF mod, full-auto mod, and I added default behaviour of the charge-up shot that increases projectile speed the longer you charge (up to +20% if I recall).
definitely something I've been considering. Added it in GMDX after all.
Maybe one new Skaarj type that is a crazy super dodger, but ALL dodging enemies dodging like UT champs? Sounds annoying.
Already in.
Will consider.
Will definitely consider.
Maybe just have them be a mix of rocket and flak brutes for variety and vanilla faithfulness' sake?
Thanks for the suggestions.
DraQ
Arcane
Ash
Heh. Editing in water rings and splashes for every projectile was literally the first bit of code I've ever written (back when Unreal was new and P133 barely sufficient to run it), but of course I no longer have those changes, and they were done stupidly, by altering the original scripts in place via copypasting.
What about biorifle and ASMD? Your change there is a much bigger departure from original than what I suggested for stinger (which was mostly just tweaking spread and fire cycle), and clashing strongly with the original feel of those weapons.
Heh. Editing in water rings and splashes for every projectile was literally the first bit of code I've ever written (back when Unreal was new and P133 barely sufficient to run it), but of course I no longer have those changes, and they were done stupidly, by altering the original scripts in place via copypasting.
What about biorifle and ASMD? Your change there is a much bigger departure from original than what I suggested for stinger (which was mostly just tweaking spread and fire cycle), and clashing strongly with the original feel of those weapons.
I would just make the skin consistent with projectiles. If they have flak bandoliers they shook flak, if they don't, they shoot whatever they sensibly might, with original rockets being (of course) the default choice.
Ash
Arcane
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People vastly overrate the significance of ASSMD penetration. I suggest waiting 'till you try it.
As for Bio rifle...shit's Unreal.
Being serious now, is it really so hard to believe the Bio Rifle is incapable of anything beyond being a glorified super soaker? And yes, it's a departure from the original design. Again I will stress it's the only one, because the original Bio Rifle alt fire was shit banal boring nobody used it (in U98 sp). I don't do major departures unless it's really needed.
DraQ
Arcane
You are applying a bit of a double standard here.
On one hand changes amounting to tweaking firing cycle and spread of a weapon (Stinger) are too drastic departure from the original, on the other, going completely out of whack with biorifle or ASMD is perfectly ok.
Yes, ASMD penetration is going to be of minor mechanical consequence, because enemies in Unreal rarely have opportunity to line up in a way that could be used. OTOH it's going to change look and feel of the weapon by eliminating visual feedback of hitting target (shockwave).
For biorifle, Unreal has always been very consistent when it comes to weapon's look and mode of action. Biorifle is pure hydraulics - tanks, pipes and pistons. Making it shoot green energy swirlies completely violates weapon's concept. Note that I don't dispute that existing fire modes are lacklustre and mutually redundant, I just propose alternative that is consistent with weapon concept.
I also propose reuse of swirly for ASMD while also salvaging its original concept and making it consistent with modern UT implementations as a bonus.
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Well if you're concerned about the biorifle's alt fire not looking mechanical, i suppose the altfire could be make to look like a spray/cloud as if it were vaporized under pressure?
DraQ
Arcane
And why not make it a chemical-y flamethrower mode for weapon that already looks like a chemical-y flamethrower, and reuse energy swirly (because it's honestly cool) for ASMD (as an additional effect)?
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Ash
Arcane
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The shockwave draws for each target hit. Why would I get rid of the hit feedback? Because muh realism again? It's especially useful so you know what and how many targets you hit behind the first.
What's the estimated release date for the public version? This month/year/decade?
DraQ
Arcane
Ash
Arcane
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Maybe one day.
Morgoth Summer 2019
DraQ Sorry. I disagree with your insistence that the Bio Rifle is ruined and alt fire should be disregarded because muh realism. Would a real-world equivalent of the Bio Rifle be incapable of making swirlies? Maybe. Arguably. Probably. But I don't place the same value in realism that you do (your various arguments on the dex prove you value it over any other tenet of design). Did the original devs value realism as much as you do, or I do? Clearly Unreal has relatively consistent, believable design, but it's not overbearing. Take the Automag for instance: why can it only rapid fire if held to the side inaccurately gangsta style? Totally unrealistic weapon design! Why is the Vortex Rikerrs interior huge, but when you exit into NyLeve the ship is relatively tiny? Why is every level a point of no return? Why can't you go back? Why can you carry ten weapons, a horde of flairs and a bunch of other shit on your person?
There's various reasons for each of these and none of them is because the devs valued realism above all else. Likewise, there's various reasons the alt fire is a swirly and not bio-flamethrower: shit's way more fun and unique, as well as more complementary of the primary fire mode than a turdthrower mode would be. I will be and have been keeping Unreal's moderate focus on believability and consistency in mind, but there's always exceptions made in the name of FUN. Hell the game's even called "Unreal". Lastly the swirly is also more creative than a turdthrower we've seen in 50 other shooters, which is fitting as Unreal's weapons are rather creative.
DraQ
Arcane
Replace "realism" with "consistency" and you might be onto something. The thing is - consistency is, was and will be the king.
No matter whether you want to be realistic or not (and realism is just a specific kind of consistency), if you show me a shit design in a game, I will show you inconsistency that lead to it.
I do value realism, but I think that the title does a good enough job giving me a hint in this case. You however don't seem to realize *why* it is important to keep things consistent, even though Unreal's devs clearly did.
Wrong question. The right question is "why does P849
shoot automag fast gangsta style". Maybe P849 is a gangsta? They start the game in prison cell after all, that's something a gangsta would do. Maybe it's not really possible to fire AM accurately at max rate of fire? Honestly, I don't care.
But on your quest to prove me wrong you have missed a more important fact about automag:
Why does automag not shoot rockets, crystals, coloured goop, explosive shells, shotgun shells, grenades, razor blades, lasers, colorful plasma or miniature, rainbow-propelled unicorns in any of its fire modes?
Because it's a fucking bullet based firearm firing fucking bullets.
Seriously now? You know that it is so rampant in games it even has it's own tvtropes page, right?
Of course, since you are going to be revamping the levels as well, feel free to fix that - for all RTNP's numerous faults it actually did some cool things with Prometheus.
Also, it's Vortex Rikers. Single 'r'. It's a prison ship, not a pirate ship.
Are you for real? Next time you will be asking why everything and everyone looks so angular... ah, fuck it.
You know what?
I will tell you a story instead:
Back in the day I had a monitor. It was a big, heavy CRT and as it got older it started malfunctioning a bit and lose blue channel every once in a while. This made the screen look as if someone pissed inside of it and, as Deus Ex: Human Revolution was not invented yet and, being a
, I had no accelerator card to bask in Q2's piss coloured lighting, was a serious problem needing a quick remedy. Fortunately such a remedy existed and was to tap it sharply on the back and upside the 'tube which restored the blue channel with a loud 'clunk!'.Now, your symptoms are different and I presume the exact impact location might differ as well, based on your anatomy, but, dude, you are malfunctioning and need some percussive maintenance to come back to your senses.
- Yeah, it seems fun. It will be just as fun if you stick it on one of the energy guns in there, where it will fit. Preferably ASMD. I am not terribly adamant about dropping the penetrating "I want to be a Quake 2" RG rip-off, but there are multiple ways of adding this mechanics to this gun, it fits the theme and other than combo ASMD has always felt underwhelming. It does not fit on the GESBiorifle at all if you value any measure of consistency.
- Flamethrowers are fun, rarely done right by vidyagames, fit the theme and you could make a flamethrower mode much more effective at being an area denial weapon than the original and able to channel/kill more than just pupae. I've seen a pretty good implementation of flamethrower in early days of Unreal (It was called DEXFT flamethrower, included three modes of fire continuous jet of flame that set victim on fire, fragmenting, sticky fireball, unignited fuel that stuck to surfaces and floated on the water waiting to be ignited by weapon fire, sadly it was not compatible with patched versions), so it can be done.
DraQ
Arcane
That was in Unreal 2. Maybe not exactly, but it looked the part.
theSavant
Self-Ejected
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Interesting point, and you got a point there. Though tbh I also really really disliked that alternate shooting style. I disliked it so much, that I tried to use macros on my mouse to shoot faster in the primary weapon mode. Therefore I endorse the announced changes to the Automag (and also the enhancements to the Dispersion Pistol). I always thought these 2 weapons should be better.
That said, as much as I like Unreal (and I played it a lot), I rather wished for a plain port to UnrealEngine4 first before any other mods. I know it's easier said than done (*if I recall correctly, Unreal 1 has no export option for objects, and therefore makes a port almost impossible), but when people start modding for years in the old engine, I wonder if that effort wouldn't have been better in some recreation. Also it's not the only mod under construction... there's also that "Unreal Redux" under construction... for years now. But again only with this outdated engine
Ash
Arcane
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Ash here, creator of GMDX for Deus Ex, and now Unreal Evolution.
I have mostly been quietly working on this for 1.5 years, and now it's pretty much done. Thankfully Unreal is a much simpler and much more polished game than Deus Ex was. Improves artificial intelligence, weaponry, player control, realism, level design, audio design, graphics, polish. Like with GMDX, Unreal Evolution is intended to be a faithful upgrade of the base game in 90% of cases. That remaining 10% exists to add fun factor, replayability, and/or address pitfalls in the original design. an example of this is the new weapon modification system which does all the aforementioned goodness.
I'll release it soon.
I have mostly been quietly working on this for 1.5 years, and now it's pretty much done. Thankfully Unreal is a much simpler and much more polished game than Deus Ex was. Improves artificial intelligence, weaponry, player control, realism, level design, audio design, graphics, polish. Like with GMDX, Unreal Evolution is intended to be a faithful upgrade of the base game in 90% of cases. That remaining 10% exists to add fun factor, replayability, and/or address pitfalls in the original design. an example of this is the new weapon modification system which does all the aforementioned goodness.
I'll release it soon.
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DJOGamer PT
Arcane
You're doing God's work. 
You plan on keep working in this or are you moving to a different project?
You plan on keep working in this or are you moving to a different project?
Ash
Arcane
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I'm pretty much done. Some new hi-res textures are needed to truly call it done but I'm doubtful I'll find a texture artist as a) I'm not doing much promotion, and b) The original Unreal is relatively obscure these days.
So aside from post-release support (bugfixes, though I doubt there will be many bugs at all) I'm not sure what else I could do for Unreal without making wild changes.
I may or may not move on to some other modding project. Depends on level of support and interest in what I am proven to be capable of with these old gems I suppose.
I have many classics on my radar. Stalker 1/3 are certainly a possibility.
So aside from post-release support (bugfixes, though I doubt there will be many bugs at all) I'm not sure what else I could do for Unreal without making wild changes.
I may or may not move on to some other modding project. Depends on level of support and interest in what I am proven to be capable of with these old gems I suppose.
I have many classics on my radar. Stalker 1/3 are certainly a possibility.
DJOGamer PT
Arcane
Ash
Arcane
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You bet. Sky's the limit. I'll open a patreon. If my talents are in demand and funding is steady and sufficient, I'll continue my modding career and we'll have years ahead of enhanced classics in the vein of GMDX and Unreal Evolution. If not, it ends here and I'll focus my time on more beneficial endeavours. Modding is simply way too time consuming to not get some form of compensation long-term. I spent over 5 years of my life on GMDX, working on it nearly every day or every other day. Unreal Evolution has been more manageable but it's still been nearly 2 years.
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