Game News Video Games And Male Gaze

[Mrowak]

Sorry I omitted most of your post, but RL is calling and I just replied to what I found was the gist of your reasoning...

Games are lowbrow entertainment, yes. We all know it. You are shooting shit into little chunks of meat, dressing up like a mighty viking warrior and screaming dragons to death, contemplating the profound connotations of moving markers around a hex grid, flying a starship around and genociding the population of a small planet in every other battle, etc. Or playing make-believe about being a lone survivor wandering a post apocaliptic wasteland and shooting giant moles while changing the lives of those your wandering touches.

Yes, you are right - games are not inherently a high brow entertainment... but once upon a time novels were shunned as works a true gentlemen should despise and movies were pretty much simplistic pastime for masses as games are now. I think that half of the reason of Codex's existance is the deep disillusionment and dissatisfaction with the direction gaming in general took over those years. In order to appeal to the masses games lost their "higher" purpose - the potential to become something more. They are cheap entertainment and nothing beyond that - abundant with tricks like pandering and fan-service. I think most of us hoped that over the course of years gaming would become a little bit more sophisticated - just like novels and cinematography has become.

Generally games now are like sweets - it's good to have some from time to time, but have too much and nothing good will come out of you. Considering that games are rather time-consuming pastime which cannot broaden our horizons (because - as we agreed - they are low-brow) an average gamer eats plenty of those sweets. The question is, what will happen to him in the end?

It's fine when such an individual like yourself - with a interests in a variety of subjects and abundant knowledge ( ) - is aware of the true status of contemporary gaming and can approach them with more of a happy-go-lucky attitude. The problem starts when the people who grow up on nothing but playing games (because it's goddamn time-consuming so there's no time to read a book, go to cinema, see an opera performance etc.) start to extol this and that game as "art" or something along those lines, with - let's face it - nothing to back it up save for their ignorance. And there are more and more individuals like that (Bioware social, for instance).

Mind you that doesn't mean every game should be serious, sombre, about solving complex analytical problems and so on.

This isn't suposed to be high art, and both hotness and beauty make everything better by themselves.

I am not saying that games are art or are supposed to be art, but consider this: games - like movies - are comprised of elements that on their own have some artistic merit - we often talk about beautiful art-direction, amazing sound tracks, great animations and so on. To create a game, it requires a lot of effort from the developers and very talented people on the board with a variety of skills. Now for this extremely gifted individuals to pour all their efforts into what is essentially is a pulp with no merit, function or message, but with quite a bloated price-tag, is a terrible waste of talent, time and money - their as developers and mine as a gamer. For all games to be about nothing but pandering to the crowd is just disheartening.

And yes, hotness and beauty make everything better by themselves but on their own they are like glamour - they are very superficial. And if misused they can become as pleasing as grotesque.

 

[laclongquan]

I have no problem with girl gamers liking "shirtless hot guys with chocolate abs, nice butts, and well toned arms and legs " Goose and Sauce and all that. Just to clear the board.

I... liked the article. It was insightful, objective and fair-minded. Above all, it really makes a number of good points about what is wrong in the industry... and how juvenile we - gamers - are, how unmonocled this entertainment usually is.

He goes a bit overboard with it, though. Girls who play videogames are pretty numerous today, and we are exactly the same as the guys who play videogames: We want to see shirtless hot guys with chocolate abs, nice butts, and well toned arms and legs pulling some ridiculous combat moves that serve no purpose beyond showing off their awesome bod and their awesome attitude.

And I don't really understand the girls who go, like, ohmygosh the horror about it. We sexualize guys just as much as they sexualize girls, big deal: Just go read some of the comments hot guys get on youtube.

Edit: Exhibit A.

Spoiler

"He's hot, imbecile."

"You are sooo yummy."

"Nice and hawt and sweaty."

"I h

ave such a lady boner for this guy."​

"You.Are.Freakin'.SEXY. ♥"​

"Is it wrong if this guy dancing all shirtless and sweaty got me totally hot?"​

​

​

/edit​

My boyfriend used to play otome videogames he got from me back when we were just friends to know the kind of fantasies and fetishes girls have and use those to score, girls should have the same attitude instead of going bawww about it.

 

[Azrael the cat]

if you were going to assassinate someone, would you wear the tightest thing possible?

No, but then again I also wouldn't be wearing a suit with a red tie.

And let's be honest here, we're talking about assassinating people. WHO ASSASSINATES PEOPLE. WHO. WHO. Is anyone here an assassin? No, I didn't think so.

Also I liked the trailer.

Actually, if you're going to assassinate someone, wouldn't you do it (a) alone, and (b) in an unassuming outfit (the business suit may well be appropriate in the right environment - one neat thing about the Hitman series is that it did a really good job of recognising that there are limits to a business suit, and tranq'g a worker to take a construction worker's outfit or a waiter's clothes might let you access (i.e. blend in) other areas. I would have thought a posse of bondage-nuns is more akin to a violent flash mob than an assassination attempt. Unless the plan is: 'let's ensure as many people recall our being in the vicinity before and after, and that anyone who witnesses the fight will be able to identify us both as a group and individually by...uh....intimate...aspects, and rather than effectively sniping from a distance or using a car bomb let's get into a gunfight en masse just so we KNOW the cops will show up, and let's bring a whole bunch of us so that there's a whole fuckload of people that the police can pressure to rat on the rest of the organisation'.

Anyway....this thread again. Fuck I hate this thread. It always ends up a giant kick to the nads of the codex's credibility as the of crpgs.

Emote suggestion: pictures of and duking it out, one with the troll stomping mr monocle (as usually results in these threads) and one where the monocle head-stomps the troll.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Azrael the cat: Many, many years ago, a guy on Vault13.net made a comic which I *think* was called Azrael the cat. Visually it was a shitty kind of attempt at 3D stuff from memory but it was kinda fun to read. Most of the stories evolved around meeting weird shapes I think. That wasn't you was it?

 

[GreyViper]

I do not fully understand hit and miss on the context. Would that mean, like, how popular those fantasies and fetishes are among girls? The entire genre exists for no other reason than exploiting the fantasies and fetishes of girls be those romantic, sexual, or conceptual. That's what they are selling, so they are actually pretty good at their job. Not all products are for all markets, but there are both patterns and constants inside every market and general ones that span all, or most, markets.

You can even notice that the archetypes, body language, etc, that those games exploit are the same ones other forms of pop entertainment directed at exploiting fantasies and fetishes and repressed hormones work. I.E: Idol pop groups, etc.

Hmm interesting and thanks for the informative answer, lots of food for thought.

 

[mondblut]

But women are a lot more than boobs and butts. That may seem obvious...

Yep, it is obvious he forgot the vagina.

Somehow though, I am not surprised.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

The depiction is lame, yes, but these constant attempts at mixing videogames and wymminz studies are far, far worse.

 

[RK47]

 

[deuxhero]

if you were going to assassinate someone, would you wear the tightest thing possible? Would you expose your breasts to the world, essentially creating a target for a bullet? Probably not.

Actually? Yes! That's a VERY good idea because of how assassination works. It's not front line combat and if you do it right, no one is shooting back at you.

 

[Marsal]

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Why the fuck is this on the Codex?

RPGs in a nutshell

 

[Infinitron]

Oh brother, where art thou?

 

[sgc_meltdown]

this outrage has nothing to do with genre gameplay or the advancement of games, so it really means nothing to me, who comes here looking to think about games and not a Real World Issue that some poor bastard game has strayed into (or as in this case, leaped into headlong in an inscrutable gambit).

It's a shame that due to the whole needing to capture the whole market paradigm the standard bro-pg has become bro-pg with omnisexual romance opportunities and therefore being universally praised populist embarrassments, because I would like to see a fucking game where all the leading characters are variants on male cologne model amazonian matriarchy breeding slave candidates and spend the whole game in a web of catty homosexual tension and treating all the women around them right (i.e. like descended virginal goddesses whose touch they do not deserve) whilst being subjected to the occasional heroic wet shirt moment and maybe showcasing deeply introspective and sensitive hobbies like musical instrument playing, poem writing, baby animal adopting and portraiture.

Surely the indignation would be both liberating and tremendous.

 

[Kz3r0]

The depiction is lame, yes, but these constant attempts at mixing videogames and wymminz studies are far, far worse.

And once again you prove Feminists right, Xtards are sexist misogynists, by the way even the Church is against this kind of things, catholic.

 

[Luzur]

if you were going to assassinate someone, would you wear the tightest thing possible?

No, but then again I also wouldn't be wearing a suit with a red tie.

And let's be honest here, we're talking about assassinating people. WHO ASSASSINATES PEOPLE. WHO. WHO. Is anyone here an assassin? No, I didn't think so.

Also I liked the trailer.

ya know, how exactly do assassins dress?

 

[Cassidy]

I kind of thought that with easy access to porn on teh netz, sex would not need to be depicted so much elsewhere, but apparently this is false.

Not all 12-year olds can browse Internets without parental control.

 

[Mozgoëbstvo]

Ahahahahahah... another BULLSHIT article about poor women being exploited while they are slowly shifting to be the dominating force in the west, at the back of spineless humans with penises (I can't call them men) and white knights.

A lot of women LOVE these erroneous, although appealing representations. They can kill, maim and save the day like any man, but they still look not only feminine, even ultra-hot! BTW, Lynndie England is a heroine!

But today, in the western world, women who commit the SAME IDENTICAL CRIMES as men get, on average, lighter sentences, aren't as mistreated in the media, are justified when they commit psychological and even physical violence (the poor thing was depressed!). In divorce cases, they get the children most of the times and a paycheck for their bitchery (alimony) even if they DO have the money to sustain themselves comfortably...

And they want privileges anywhere. At least a 50% female presence on CEO boards??? In political organs?? Even if they have less qualifications than the perspective man?
Why don't you ask for a "pink quota" for work in mines, steel mills and such? No? Only for cushy jobs?




AND AFTER ALL THIS INCREDIBLE BULLSHIT, STILL I SEE FUCKING ARTICLES ABOUT GENDER ISSUES. IN VIDEOGAMES. IN VIDEOGAMES, SATAN'S COCK! VIDEOGAMES!
FUCK YOUR GENDER ISSUES WITH A CATTLE PROD!

YOU HAVE ISSUES OF THE MENTAL KIND! YOU FUCKING WHITE KNIGHT! BOOBERY ISN'T THE CAUSE OF SHITTY GAMES! FUUUUUUUUCKKK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU



/rant

 

[Catalina]

I personally find this topic interesting, and enjoy discussing it from time to time; but I'm confused as to why it's front page news on RPGCodex. A topic in General Gaming would be my assumption of the most fitting place for it.

 

[hiver]

Its not "male gaze" or whatever the fuck.

Its just the most basic emotional engagement. Sex + violence. The more extreme the better.
Gets those core synapses of pleasure and danger sparks flying and then the rest of the mind tries to find excuses.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

The depiction is lame, yes, but these constant attempts at mixing videogames and wymminz studies are far, far worse.

And once again you prove Feminists right, Xtards are sexist misogynists, by the way even the Church is against this kind of things, catholic.

I never said I approved of it at all, to the contrary. I'm only referring to putting politics where it doesn't belong, and trying to paint women as oppressed victims when it's not as black and white.

If anything, it is women who objectify themselves, and then cry foul when it is convenient.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Why are most movie homicidal maniacs, serial killers, military cyborgs, kung-fu villains, undead warlords, huge mutant abberations, cackling mad scientists, corrupt cops and murderous werewolves men

this institutionalised misandry will not stand

men are more than unfeeling forces of destructive technicolor chaos and cinematic murder, but the female gaze looks on by and sees not slander but entertainment

entertainment! is the male spirit but an indentured gladiator fit only for hopeless immortal battle against the wild animal hordes of convenient objectification?

 

[kentable]

But then you get metro-sexual Orlando Bloom types if you go that route. Today's leading man; sensitive and non-threatening. No wonder Kwa's going down the shitter.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Today's leading man; sensitive and non-threatening.

because of your post it just occurred to me that they should totally adapt Ichi the Killer into a western film

 

[Radisshu]

It would probably be much better than the japanese film.

 

[Sukeban Cho]

Sorry I omitted most of your post, but RL is calling and I just replied to what I found was the gist of your reasoning...

That's how little you care about me.

I think that half of the reason of Codex's existance is the deep disillusionment and dissatisfaction with the direction gaming in general took over those years. In order to appeal to the masses games lost their "higher" purpose - the potential to become something more.

To be quite honest I read it more like "They are not making the pulpy lowbrow entertainment I like, but the pulpy lowbrow entertainment that has mass appeal." And then they just get elitist like most people does in such a situation.

I'm really sorry but the moment you read a Girls' Generation fangirl being all elitist about Girls' Generation while dissing those who enjoy, say, T-Ara or 4minute phominat as inferior beings with neither taste nor discernment you lose the ability to take all such people seriously.

Generally games now are like sweets - it's good to have some from time to time, but have too much and nothing good will come out of you. Considering that games are rather time-consuming pastime which cannot broaden our horizons (because - as we agreed - they are low-brow) an average gamer eats plenty of those sweets. The question is, what will happen to him in the end?

Why in the name of the immortal, divine, flying, omniscient fuck do you care? It is his right to live a lowbrow life with no deeper meaning or appreciation if he wants to.

And maybe he's more happier like that than you are like this, so to each his own.

It's fine when such an individual like yourself - with a interests in a variety of subjects and abundant knowledge ( ) - is aware of the true status of contemporary gaming and can approach them with more of a happy-go-lucky attitude. The problem starts when the people who grow up on nothing but playing games (because it's goddamn time-consuming so there's no time to read a book, go to cinema, see an opera performance etc.) start to extol this and that game as "art" or something along those lines, with - let's face it - nothing to back it up save for their ignorance. And there are more and more individuals like that (Bioware social, for instance).

The problem with ignorance is that you never recognize it until you lack it, which means both it is impossible for him or her to recognize the lack of this or that because a videogame tells them to (instead, "stupid videogame for no life nerds, lol") and that at the end of the day they might be as right and you as wrong as you believe them to be wrong and you right. *shrug*

And then, I doubt you are perfect. Not even I, goddess incarnate of earth, of heaven above, and of the infernal abysses below, am perfect. Just very, very, very close to being perfect. Anyway, just as you are saying "They should spend less time doing lowbrow shit and more becoming better," one could say you should spend more time becoming better and less discussing what others are doing. Which is, you know, exactly what you would be doing if such development was as important to you as you are making it sound like it is... Criticizing other people's lifestyle and choice of subjective worldview is in no way more constructive than playing games about hot girls and hot guys killing monsters in a wildly suggestive manner that make your hormones revolt.

Man, that last paragraph came out as totally bitch. Believe me, I said that in a friendly manner, even if it does not look like it.

I am not saying that games are art or are supposed to be art, but consider this: games - like movies - are comprised of elements that on their own have some artistic merit - we often talk about beautiful art-direction, amazing sound tracks, great animations and so on. To create a game, it requires a lot of effort from the developers and very talented people on the board with a variety of skills. Now for this extremely gifted individuals to pour all their efforts into what is essentially is a pulp with no merit, function or message, but with quite a bloated price-tag, is a terrible waste of talent, time and money - their as developers and mine as a gamer. For all games to be about nothing but pandering to the crowd is just disheartening.

Not all games are pandering to the crowd, just most. In the exact same way most books are, and most movies are, and most music is, and most TV shows are.

I used to date this wannabe daoist sorcerer who always said a deep and smart person finds meaning and depth even in the most shallow thing, and that a fool would find even the sea shallow. And while I am sure he just stole it from some chinese book or something I believe he to be quite right.

And yes, hotness and beauty make everything better by themselves but on their own they are like glamour - they are very superficial. And if misused they can become as pleasing as grotesque.

Uhm... That's just as arbitrary as saying beauty and charm is everything, and depth is for losers and ugly nerds who don't really have a choice.

Once we enter in the subjective meaning I, you, or anyone attributes this or that we are pretty much outside the realm of coherent discussion anyway.