KickStarter Vigilantes: neo-noir, turn based tactical RPG

[Timeslip]

Can I ask if you plan to remove the orange and blue coloring at some point and just leave orange and blue outline? It looks kind of bad like this.

Yeah, it's sort of overkill. Has been bugging me too, but not as much as other things It's on the to do list though and will definitely be looked at.

Haven't played the early builds, but glad I backed this on KS. It's looking really good. Kudos!

Thanks santino27!

 

[Timeslip]

Have been working on the code for enemy level ups over the last few updates, and just encountered the first enemy who leveled up to a new type naturally, as opposed to being added for a dialogue encounter. A mafia hitman with 8 ap, a big handgun, almost as much HP as the main character and 4 mafioso for backup.

Died. Didn't have a melee fighter so it was a kite fest. Took down 3 mafiosi, made a 4th flee, chewed through 8 trauma kits. The hitman killed both (badly wounded) Vigilantes in one round. Probably would have won if had shotgun or 4 more trauma kits.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Have been working on the code for enemy level ups over the last few updates, and just encountered the first enemy who leveled up to a new type naturally, as opposed to being added for a dialogue encounter. A mafia hitman with 8 ap, a big handgun, almost as much HP as the main character and 4 mafioso for backup.

What are those icons at top left of the screen?
Mission objectives?

 

[Timeslip]

Those are the active perks that Sam had: controlled breathing and insult (it's a new one, need to add correct icon). The new icon at the top right reveals the player flee area (which I probably should have used), and it's supposed to pan the camera to the area, but there's an issue with that (last job for tonight, then an hour on dialogue encounters).

 

[Timeslip]

But I need to add mission objective too...

 

[Timeslip]

V15 now live. Development video to follow.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[ArchAngel]

Timeslip
I watched this video and the city maps seems to have only two square types. Any plans to add more in the future like a park square or even something like a Zoo square?
And maybe add a park combat zone as well.

 

[Timeslip]

Thanks Infinitron

Here are the release notes for this version:

[Features]
+New mission type: prevent enemies fleeing the map
+New mission type: escort NPC
+Added code to support non combat encounters
+Added code to allow players to flee/exit the combat area
+Added code to support enemy spawning during combat
+Added code to bypassing obstructions through dialogue choices. This will be useful for shortening the path in escort missions
+Added simple camera movement to city map

[Content]
+Added first non combat encounter: Barbarians at the gates
+Added new Encounter: Dilettante (Thanks Helena!)
+Added new Perk: Insult (Increases critical chance vs this character)
+Added new Perk: Nocturnal (Increase AP, damage, damage resistance at night; lower CTH during day)
+Added new Perk: Critical Charge (Successful melee or firearm attacks increase crit chance on subsequent attacks)
+Added new Encounter: Blackmail
+Added 2 new Downtown maps
+Added 2 new Downtown city backgrounds

[Tweaks]
+UI elements for targeting information now shown on top (Thanks Nomad)
+Improved the city UI.
+Improved the tactical mission debriefing UI.
+Improved the surveillance mission debriefing UI.
+Added player flee areas to maps.
+Disabled character screen for temporary allies. (Thanks Ushas)
+Added fleeing icon to… well fleeing enemies.
+Reduced load time from splash to main menu.

[Fixes]
+Fixed enemies shooting through walls in storage park map. (Thanks Nomad)
+Fixed a number of issues with Chinatown map. (Thanks Usha)
+Fixed issues with Park and Downtown bar map. (Thanks Usha)
+Fixed stacked items not being removed from loot bags, when entire stack is dragged to player inventory. (Thanks Usha)

 

[Timeslip]

Hi ArchAngel - Yes, there will definitely be more, and more variation within the same tile type. It's very much a placeholder. A zoo square is unlikely, but 2 encounters have been written for a rural, outside city limits area, so that will happen.

 

[Alienman]

Starting to look good!

 

[Jimmious]

Timeslip since we have this discussion in Battle Brothers (which I really hope you tried, you can get great ideas there) , how much of the game is "simulation"? I mean are there entities that persist and grow/develop of the map independent of the player or is everything "scripted" around us?

 

[Timeslip]

Starting to look good!

Thanks Alienman

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

And related to above question.
Is city randomly generated or hand made fixed map?
If I've understood correctly situation with Battle Brothers is that procedural generation of maps ate resources from world simulation aspects of the game.

They had to drop some proposed features, like enemies actually raiding for resources to gain power.
Now there is some sort of scaling with enemy strength bound to number of days and players renown score.

 

[Timeslip]

Timeslip since we have this discussion in Battle Brothers (which I really hope you tried, you can get great ideas there) , how much of the game is "simulation"? I mean are there entities that persist and grow/develop of the map independent of the player or is everything "scripted" around us?

Haven't tried it yet, but will keep an eye out for it (started AOD recently). At present, each gang starts with a certain number of troops. These will level up over time, and if they can get away from you in combat. If you pass 2 weeks of time without engaging in combat, the will be too tough for you to handle. Each tile also has a crime rate and a wealth value, and as the crime rate grows, so does the amount of money they can extract. There is a basic gang AI in place, which will make decisions on purchasing better equipment, training troops and placing rackets. My sincere hope, which I'm willing to back up with a lot of effort, is that I can keep this gang AI, rather than implementing a system where on day x gang y purchases equipment upgrade.

 

[Timeslip]

And related to above question.
Is city randomly generated or hand made fixed map?
If I've understood correctly situation with Battle Brothers procedural generation of maps ate resources from world simulation aspects of the game.

They had to drop some proposed features, like enemies actually raiding for resources to gain power.
Now there is some sort of scaling with enemy strength bound to number of days and players renown score.

There are some questions around city map generation. It's likely that the city map will be the same (there are a number of constraints in place which make it difficult to get away from this), but that the tiles belong to which gangs will be randomised on starting a new game.

 

[ushas]

Will try to catch that non combat encounter

So the city tiles could be roughly equivalent to the main types of a mission map? There are various versions of park / playground maps, cemeteries, suburbs and downtowns, ~a garage / warehouse areas, china towns, a construction site... It's also an additional intel when looking at a city square you roughly know what type of map to expect from past experiences.

Watching the video, I thought originally that it was the change into a sans-serif type of font what made me feel it's harder to read than before, but now reaslizing it's also darker. Timeslip, perhaps you would consider brighten the text up a little bit for better contrast?

If there are more than a few lines in conversation I like more text with serifs, but having no issues reading the walls of codex. Consistent style is more important.

Have heard good things about it, but haven't tried it. Unity changed their pricing lately, and there was a kerfuffle about it, and in fairness to them they listened. If they hadn't there's a good chance would have moved to it for next game.

Well, I've heard they don't give you the source code even when having pro version. Has that changed? Seems the biggest problem to me.
However, there is also something to say about big community around Unity and UE4, that's great for getting help.

Btw. what was that TBS about?

 

[Timeslip]

Will try to catch that non combat encounter

So the city tiles could be roughly equivalent to the main types of a mission map? There are various versions of park / playground maps, cemeteries, suburbs and downtowns, ~a garage / warehouse areas, china towns, a construction site... It's also an additional intel when looking at a city square you roughly know what type of map to expect from past experiences.

Watching the video, I thought originally that it was the change into a sans-serif type of font what made me feel it's harder to read than before, but now reaslizing it's also darker. Timeslip, perhaps you would consider brighten the text up a little bit for better contrast?

If there are more than a few lines in conversation I like more text with serifs, but having no issues reading the walls of codex. Consistent style is more important.

I'll post details on how to access the various missions - there's a command line I used for testing.

Current plan is for each city tile to be of a certain environment type, like downtown, slums, suburbs, chinatown and when you launch a mission on that tile, it will choose a map of that type.

Yeah, did change some of the fonts. Felt that they looked better than the older ones. Some are likely still in the older style, but will find them in subsequent updates. Let me know if there's somewhere in particular you find text hard to read / too dark!

Well, I've heard they don't give you the source code even when having pro version. Has that changed? Seems the biggest problem to me.
However, there is also something to say about big community around Unity and UE4, that's great for getting help.

Btw. what was that TBS about?

It's not something I mind to be honest, but it could be a problem if you need to fix something fast, instead of waiting for Unity to sort it out. Generally don't upgrade Unity all that often, as soon as I find a version that's bug free (or close to it) for the current game. Don't understand your last comment? Neurons mis-firing. Tired

 

[ushas]

My first attempt at a game was a TBS, using Java.

Yeah, did change some of the fonts. Felt that they looked better than the older ones. Some are likely still in the older style, but will find them in subsequent updates. Let me know if there's somewhere in particular you find text hard to read / too dark!

With fonts it's just small nuances, indeed it looks better here and there. Having v14 still in memory makes comparison. I think that perk screen (esp. perk buttons) and the cityscape text became a considerable darker than before. Some on orange buttons are not centered, not sure if you plan bold version for them. Was just curious about the contrast because a lot of people read better dark text on white than a lighter text on dark background.

Most editors usually let you adjust spaces between letters and between words. Perhaps the latter could stand be slightly bigger, I'm not sure. Also in same places the space under apostrophe looks bigger than the space before the next word (eg. "district's Danger Level")

 

[Timeslip]

Ah, thanks. I'll take a look at these. Not sure if the font is just a little thinner, or maybe the wrong colours were assigned. I don't think Unity's editor has that function, but will have a look.

First TBS I tried was a Lovecraft themed one. There was more emphasis on resources, base building and defending areas. Who knows, might go back to it when am finished here.

 

[Timeslip]

Starting to work on interrogations now. Have a plan of attack and started on some of the background coding. It's not confirmed as a feature yet, but nothing is jumping out as a red flag and I really, really want to add this, so it is likely. It feels like a really good addition, as it works well thematically and mechanically (supplements surveillance as a means to gather intel, allows for a more involved process in finding leaders/rackets). Apart from XCom, can't think of any other TB RPGs where interrogation plays a substantial role, so it might help the game stand out. Any thoughts on this?

And here's the level 4 illustration for the gym facility in Vigilantes. Not too far off having all the illustrations ready, which is the majority of the work for adding facilities.

 

[Timeslip]

Timeslip since we have this discussion in Battle Brothers (which I really hope you tried, you can get great ideas there) , how much of the game is "simulation"? I mean are there entities that persist and grow/develop of the map independent of the player or is everything "scripted" around us?

I passed a lot of in game time (3 weeks) in order to make sure a bug was fixed and tried out a level to see how the enemies progressed. They had almost twice as much HP as the PCs. An enforcer flattened Ray Case (a melee character) with 2 punches. Though scaling enemies based on player character level benefits from making balancing simpler, it also makes character progression less meaningful, so it wasn't the approach I wanted to take with Vigilantes. Instead, with enemies levelling up over time (rate dependent on difficulty level), through escaping the player, and from purchased upgrades, you'll be in a constant race to outpace the gangs' development. Fall too far behind and you won't be able to contest them in combat. If this happens, it's unlikely you will be able to win. You may get by with less effective approaches at lower difficultly levels, but harder difficulties will require increasingly optimised strategies to the game.

 

[Timeslip]

Rough night on the town. A battered and bruised Sam patches up his wounds in the surgery.

Making decent headway with the interrogation feature. Have integrated it with the post mission logic, created the UI and code for carrying out the interrogation. Left to do: an illustration, testing and a system for getting intel based on the rank of the interrogation subject and the gang the player requested intel on. Also considering unlocking special, timed encounters through interrogation (for example, intercepting a survivalist arms shipment) but that won't happen on this update.

Here's a rundown on how interrogation plays out. In summary, though, interrogation works by pitting the interrogator's presence skill and level against the subject's.

• You have a chance to find a subject if there is at least one criminal left alive at the end of mission. The more living subjects, the greater the chance.
• You choose an interrogator. There will be perks relating to interrogation, so you can specialise one of your characters for this role.
• You choose which gang you want intel on. Criminals will spill on the other gangs more readily.
• You can rough the subject up [close combat] or play russian roulette [firearms] to soften them up.
• You can apply sodium thiopental (craftable: a fast acting barbituate) to further soften then up.
• Then, based on their score vs your score, you have a % chance to break them. If you do, you get intel of value dependent on their rank within the gang.

 

[ushas]

Sounds promising!

Regarding interrogation enemies:
- Apart from number of them living at the end of the combat, does a chance getting one have something to do with in situ leader (morale system) as well?

- Living subjects = incapacitated? If yes, is there any advantage of killing from the campaign perspective?
For example, to me +20% damage bonus doesn't seem comparable. Whereas, if killing would work as more effective way of cutting their resources - people (eg. if a portion of incapacitated foes is also coming back like how it's done with fleeing mechanic), it would be perhaps something more to consider.

- I like that you're giving us hard choice in the form of selecting one faction for the topic. Apart from the rank are there any other aspects influencing what specific info we then get if successful? Just curious how the systems will play together.

- Does spilling more readily on other gangs have some drawbacks?
Eg. like a (rank-1) in the calculation for the intel value, or some hard limit how far on the hierarchy you can get, the lower accuracy of the information - like NW downtown instead of exact district's coordinates, the info valid only for the next few days...


On a different note, was thinking to ask about fake choices and busy work. I think there is always a line when it's waste of time no matter the reasons (be it for the sake of pacing, interactivity or roleplaying). There is a question why one would need to be given a choice between an option to roll for an advance without any drawbacks and an option not doing it?

Well, I guess it can be made fun in conversations. However, what about the post-mission surveillance & lock-picking screen in this game? As of now it can be just automatized like for looting bodies with Loot & Leave (~ Look & Loot & Leave). It's just for getting additional items based on two skills. Why one needs to push buttons for that? We are no rats. (btw. debriefing screen has enough space to summarize the loot)

 

[Timeslip]

Sounds promising!

Regarding interrogation enemies:
- Apart from number of them living at the end of the combat, does a chance getting one have something to do with in situ leader (morale system) as well?

Thanks ushas - don't quite follow - you talking about the enemies managing to flee? If so, that reduces the number of viable subjects and will drop the chance of finding an interrogation subject.

- Living subjects = incapacitated? If yes, is there any advantage of killing from the campaign perspective?
For example, to me +20% damage bonus doesn't seem comparable. Whereas, if killing would work as more effective way of cutting their resources - people (eg. if a portion of incapacitated foes is also coming back like how it's done with fleeing mechanic), it would be perhaps something more to consider.

Yes, and no, it's counter productive to kill everyone from the point of bringing down the gangs. The idea is that if you incapacitate the enemies, they are restrained and left for the police to deal with. That said, it may be good to differentiate lethal vs non lethal as you suggested by allowing a % of incapacitated enemies to escape/be bailed. Like the idea of killing undermining gang membership, but keeping enemies alive for interrogation being better for completing the big picture objectives of taking the gangs down.

- I like that you're giving us hard choice in the form of selecting one faction for the topic. Apart from the rank are there any other aspects influencing what specific info we then get if successful? Just curious how the systems will play together.

Currently it's just rank. If additional missions are opened up through interrogation, there will need to be x amount of hours between instances.[/QUOTE]

- Does spilling more readily on other gangs have some drawbacks?
Eg. like a (rank-1) in the calculation for the intel value, or some hard limit how far on the hierarchy you can get, the lower accuracy of the information - like NW downtown instead of exact district's coordinates, the info valid only for the next few days...

At the moment, the level of intel is the same, it's just easier to get them to snitch on another gang.

On a different note, was thinking to ask about fake choices and busy work. I think there is always a line when it's waste of time no matter the reasons (be it for the sake of pacing, interactivity or roleplaying). There is a question why one would need to be given a choice between an option to roll for an advance without any drawbacks and an option not doing it?

Is there an option in particular that's jumping out as not meaningful? There are a number fairly important choices to be made, who to use, which gang to get intel on, and whether to use sodium thoipental. If it's the sodium thoipental phase, it's going to cost time and resources to make, and you'll need to have a certain level of skill/base facilities. Arguably, an algorithm could be written to figure out the best interrogator, and the best option for close combat skill to use, but that's also taking away the fun of figuring out the best way to interrogate from the player.

Well, I guess it can be made fun in conversations. However, what about the post-mission surveillance & lock-picking screen in this game? As of now it can be just automatized like for looting bodies with Loot & Leave (~ Look & Loot & Leave). It's just for getting additional items based on two skills. Why one needs to push buttons for that? We are no rats. (btw. debriefing screen has enough space to summarize the loot)

I accept your point. It could be automated, but I think an equal number of players enjoy the suspense of looting, seeing how many of the containers they have found and cracked. In terms of clicks, it's 3-5 every mission, maybe every 30 mins. I'll buy you a new mouse in the year 2033 to make up for the wear and tear I've added some features in to reduce busy work (the single click reload for example). If time allows, and it's the best way to spend it, will do some more work in this area - perhaps an auto buy for crafting or single click repair.

We are no rats.

Ha