KickStarter Vigilantes: neo-noir, turn based tactical RPG

[Timeslip]

On my second attempt, and after getting some advice from you and everyone else in this thread, I realized that a lot of my problem was that I just needed to get good. Of course, in any game that has difficulty levels, you're going to struggle with the easy mode teaching you to do stuff that you can't get away with on the hard mode. Like your tactics against the cult change radically when they start throwing grenades at you.

What made me quit is just that I got burned out because your game was so good that I played it about 25 hours in one week. I'll come back to it later though.

Yeah, you can get away with quite a lot on Vigilante difficulty. Much less so on hard boiled. That's probably the nicest reason I've heard for someone giving the game a rest

Finished it on Hero difficulty this morning. It was mostly downhill after killing the first lieutenant and getting a good gun. The fight with the mafia boss seems like the hardest in the game, by far.

Spoiler

If I use bypass to climb over the wall, I can take out the boss, but the enemies are right up your ass to start. I find it easier to just attack from outside the walls.

Nice. 1 in 500 players have completed a hero playthrough.

 

[Dickie]

Nice. 1 in 500 players have completed a hero playthrough.

I saw this on the achievement stats, and the only two I don't have right now are "I'd Catch a Grenade for You" (catch 20 grenades) and "Message Sent" (trigger message sent effect with shotgun). I saw that roughly the same number of people have the grenade one as have beaten it on Hero, but "Message Sent" has a 0% unlocked rate. I was playing another playthrough with shotguns right now, and I got that perk, but it doesn't seem possible to trigger that effect. Is this a bug? I've killed maybe five people with another person within two spaces, so it's possible I was just very unlucky, but the 0% makes me wonder.

Also, catching 20 grenades takes a very long time in this game. Across four playthroughs, I'm not even sure if enemies have thrown 20 grenades.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Across four playthroughs, I'm not even sure if enemies have thrown 20 grenades.

They'll throw plenty of grenades against melee oriented team.
Often specialist or lieutenant takes that action if they have change to damage 2 or more characters.

 

[Timeslip]

I saw that roughly the same number of people have the grenade one as have beaten it on Hero, but "Message Sent" has a 0% unlocked rate. I was playing another playthrough with shotguns right now, and I got that perk, but it doesn't seem possible to trigger that effect. Is this a bug? I've killed maybe five people with another person within two spaces, so it's possible I was just very unlucky, but the 0% makes me wonder.

Yep, noticed that too. Probably it is. I'll look at it in next update.

They'll throw plenty of grenades against melee oriented team.
Often specialist or lieutenant takes that action if they have change to damage 2 or more characters.

Yeah, they rarely use them against single targets, as the damage would be lower than almost any other option available. Damage to player team is the highest scoring factor in decision making.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

 

[Sykar]

So is this game ?

 

[Dickie]

I noticed a very minor bug where carry weight doesn't update automatically if you have something equipped in a slot and then drag more of that item from the shared inventory. For instance, if you have 5 medkits equipped and then drag another 30 medkits from the shared inventory straight into the equipped slot, the carry weight doesn't update until you leave the screen. I wasn't paying attention and got encumbered a couple times because of this. I added some medkits and then went straight to the map and deployed because it still said "Not Encumbered" next to carry weight.

It's not a big deal, but if it's an easy fix, it'd be nice.

 

[Timeslip]

I noticed a very minor bug where carry weight doesn't update automatically if you have something equipped in a slot and then drag more of that item from the shared inventory. For instance, if you have 5 medkits equipped and then drag another 30 medkits from the shared inventory straight into the equipped slot, the carry weight doesn't update until you leave the screen. I wasn't paying attention and got encumbered a couple times because of this. I added some medkits and then went straight to the map and deployed because it still said "Not Encumbered" next to carry weight.

It's not a big deal, but if it's an easy fix, it'd be nice.

Cheers, have taken a note to look at it.

 

[ushas]

So is this game ?

It is.

 

[Dickie]

They'll throw plenty of grenades against melee oriented team.
Often specialist or lieutenant takes that action if they have change to damage 2 or more characters.

Yeah, they rarely use them against single targets, as the damage would be lower than almost any other option available. Damage to player team is the highest scoring factor in decision making.

I decided to play through the game again to see if I could hit max level with Sam, and I figured out my problem here. I keep my guys all together, but I always focus down tough enemies fast, so they never had time to throw grenades nor usually even get close enough to do so. This playthrough, I gave everyone defuser and leave the tougher enemies alive but wounded to throw grenades. So far, only one grenade has slipped through my net, and I got the achievement pretty quickly.

It's July 19 and Sam is only level 27. Getting to 35 feels like it'd take forever, so I may just give up. Battles are already a rofl stomp with everybody starting each battle with 12-13 AP and having 3 movement AP, so they can shoot two to four times apiece or throw three grenades. Well, I guess with an SMG, you could do a 4-shot burst and a 3-shot burst to shoot 7 times. Getting into position is super easy when you have bypass high enough to move 8 spaces before battle starts.

 

[ushas]

I decided to play through the game again to see if I could hit max level with Sam, and I figured out my problem here. I keep my guys all together, but I always focus down tough enemies fast, so they never had time to throw grenades nor usually even get close enough to do so. This playthrough, I gave everyone defuser and leave the tougher enemies alive but wounded to throw grenades. So far, only one grenade has slipped through my net, and I got the achievement pretty quickly.

It's July 19 and Sam is only level 27. Getting to 35 feels like it'd take forever, so I may just give up. Battles are already a rofl stomp with everybody starting each battle with 12-13 AP and having 3 movement AP, so they can shoot two to four times apiece or throw three grenades. Well, I guess with an SMG, you could do a 4-shot burst and a 3-shot burst to shoot 7 times. Getting into position is super easy when you have bypass high enough to move 8 spaces before battle starts.

There is an achievement for max level too? Tough work. You know what would be nice, an achievement for getting all achievements

Playing with utility Sam, so even though got levels from crafting, battles remained challenging for longer. I've stalled the campaign, wanting to see everything, going through all rackets for fun. We're lvl 31. I've expected gangs to become tougher catching up with us (lvl 28, bosses 32), but the opposite happened. We maxed all facilities, upgraded/crafted/hotloaded everything - and it showed. Putting 1-2 ~50HP foes down per 3 turns initially changed into 1-3 100HP+ foes per 1 turn with end game weapons (esp. crafted rifles). Crushed survivalist boss encounter. Only the Mafia boss remains. Honestly, can't imagine getting to level 35, too much busy work. Thanks to being hybrid we leveled far, but it's how you said, once maxed primary combat skill, it slows down significantly.

 

[Dickie]

There is an achievement for max level too? Tough work. You know what would be nice, an achievement for getting all achievements

Sorry if I was confusing in my post. The achievement I got was the one for catching 20 grenades. The posts I quoted were in reference to my comments about how hard it would be to catch 20 grenades.

What day is it where you're level 31? I played a little more and got to level 30 on July 22. I don't even have any combat skills maxed, so I think I could get to level 35, but I'm not playing for long stretches any more. I was mostly curious if it was possible to do in a reasonable amount of time, but the answer to that seems to be negative. I think I beat the game between July 14 and July 16 on my other runs.

I agree that enemy levels don't matter so much when each person on your team can do over 100 damage per turn. I don't think it's anything to fix, since the game should be well over by that point.

 

[ushas]

Sorry if I was confusing in my post. The achievement I got was the one for catching 20 grenades.

You weren't. I was just extrapolating from hearing you're collecting achievements (not playing the steam build here)

What day is it where you're level 31? I played a little more and got to level 30 on July 22. I don't even have any combat skills maxed, so I think I could get to level 35, but I'm not playing for long stretches any more. I was mostly curious if it was possible to do in a reasonable amount of time, but the answer to that seems to be negative. I think I beat the game between July 14 and July 16 on my other runs.

Just checked: 14th of August. Although think I could have it over two weeks ago. Was really stretching it a lot.

In either case, you definitely leveled faster. Have you played that on Hero again?

I agree that enemy levels don't matter so much when each person on your team can do over 100 damage per turn. I don't think it's anything to fix, since the game should be well over by that point.

Yeah, it's just interesting to see how much power can accumulate. Itemization progression is really powerful. There's an underlying thought - how we play early influencing length of the campaign, but not necessarily winning.

Anyway, time to finally wrap it up. Am thinking to make it more challenging: perhaps to give Sam beauty sleep, giving Mafia boss two more weeks, then buy the lowest tier items in the shop, and go with that...

Timeslip, there isn't any alternative ending by any chance? Like if gangs aren't dealt with till end of August, the city's really going to hell or so? (haven't seen any yet, so apologies in case the question doesn't make sense)

Edit: Lol, I know it's just coincidence, but a kind of fitting, after lazying around and stalling the campaign, being told by the final boss that

Spoiler

he's tired, tired of us, tired of watching his back...
That kind of feeling when you bored your enemy to death

 

[Dickie]

Have you played that on Hero again?

Nah, I was being a pansy and playing on Hard Boiled.

Edit: Lol, I know it's just coincidence, but a kind of fitting, after lazying around and stalling the campaign, being told by the final boss that

Spoiler

he's tired, tired of us, tired of watching his back...
That kind of feeling when you bored your enemy to death

Poor guy. I hope you helped him to relax.

 

[Timeslip]

Timeslip, there isn't any alternative ending by any chance? Like if gangs aren't dealt with till end of August, the city's really going to hell or so? (haven't seen any yet, so apologies in case the question doesn't make sense)

Edit: Lol, I know it's just coincidence, but a kind of fitting, after lazying around and stalling the campaign, being told by the final boss that

Spoiler

he's tired, tired of us, tired of watching his back...
That kind of feeling when you bored your enemy to death

There's just the two based endings based on rep. Have you seen both of them yet? Which do you prefer?

 

[Timeslip]

On the topic of getting to max character level, it's possible but like clearing out every tile, I don't think it would be much fun. No achievements based on it for that reason.

 

[Timeslip]

Dickie & Taka-Haradin puolipeikko - That issue with the skill going up really quickly after 139 is fixed, fix will be available in next update.

Edit: Issue with dragging more stackable items into equipment slot also fixed.

 

[Dickie]

Dickie & Taka-Haradin puolipeikko - That issue with the skill going up really quickly after 139 is fixed, fix will be available in next update.

Edit: Issue with dragging more stackable items into equipment slot also fixed.

That's cool. What about the bug with using medkits and running out of them but the counter doesn't update so the game locks up? No pressure. Just curious.

 

[Timeslip]

That's cool. What about the bug with using medkits and running out of them but the counter doesn't update so the game locks up? No pressure. Just curious.

Fixed too. That's almost certainly the worst bug at present. Will likely focus on remaining bugs for this update and get it out fairly soon, and look at quality of life and extra content for next one. Full list of work to date is here: http://timeslipsoftworks.com/forum/index.php/topic,595.msg2875.html#msg2875

Edit: You can avoid that bug by making sure unarmed is on the regular attack when you use the last item of the stack.

 

[HoboForEternity]

Is there any more journal entries and newspaper planned? It seems to stop after i recruit teh crews. Kinda disappointed nothing shows up after i beaten several lutenants.

 

[Timeslip]

Is there any more journal entries and newspaper planned? It seems to stop after i recruit teh crews. Kinda disappointed nothing shows up after i beaten several lutenants.

Yep, there will be more. These aren't very time consuming to add, so they are one of the best ways to flesh out the story and provide better feedback on player actions.

 

[ushas]

Poor guy. I hope you helped him to relax.

Man, I feel so bad for playing so slow.

Spoiler

Yeah, he was quite happy to surrender.
Now I realize, he's going to get together with a hundred mafioso buddies in the jail...

There's just the two based endings based on rep. Have you seen both of them yet? Which do you prefer?

Haven't. Just the good rep ending at this point. Liked the way you tackled this, as far as one can say liked while feeling heavy. Unless it's necessary to answer right away, I'd like to play a new campaign from the start for the wholesome experience of the other one. Although a kind of more scared now.

Spoiler

When Sam talked about idealism, who did he meant - himself, gangs or something else?

 

[ushas]

Will likely focus on remaining bugs for this update and get it out fairly soon, and look at quality of life and extra content for next one. Full list of work to date is here: http://timeslipsoftworks.com/forum/index.php/topic,595.msg2875.html#msg2875

+ Thrown weapons, including smoke grenades, can be used on the active character's current tile.

That's neat

Edit: Issue with dragging more stackable items into equipment slot also fixed.

Does it solve also ammo weight incorrections when (un)loading gun?


Can list some potential issues encountered during the release playthrough below (haven't taken many notes though)

Spoiler

(hope not repeating much, tried to filter out what was already mentioned elsewhere)

1. Unable to upgrade two facilities in parallel. When you assign allies to both, only one will progress at the time.

2. Text of the Nobuki rifle upgrade says will be re-chambered to take high calibre rounds, but upgraded weapon still takes MCRs.

3. Persistent UI elements when you hit delay: aoes (shotgun, grenades), grenade cth, ap numbers, perk icons, status effects info, possibly other

4. Each delay turn lowers cooldown of perks. For example, delay by 3 positions is enough to activate berserker charge.
Edit: Just read that guys on steam discovered skipping a turn lowering a cooldown (glad this took them a while as it's obvious cheat). AFAIK, it's the same issue, but will leave it here just in case there's something else going on.

5. Even though have Tactical Delay perk, doesn't let me delay when there is no normal APs left (so can't use move APs later).

6. Ghost 2240 SCR ammo after pushing 'team reload' button (but that was in 1.00)

7. The gear icon on an item in the shop selling interface does nothing, prob. should be either grayed out or removed.

8. Auto-end-turn functionality not working when the last action is an activation of a perk, and some other actions, sorry forgot them.

9. Sam and allies that contribute in crafting/repair won't heal any HPs. (mentioning because in the past they did, and the healing rate tooltip still says so)

10. In v1.00 there was filled outline option for recheable tiles highlight and worked ok, now in v1.01 this shows only outline for me.

11. Some after battle screens (eg. interrogation) aren't well adjusted for 1920x1200 res, black stripes not filling the space entirely

12. Looting screen has some scrolling issues. For example, unable to scroll down when retrieved additional items from caches etc.

13. Movement AP display takes into account Firing Position perk, but IMO it shouldn't because as soon as you move the perk's effect isn't applicable <- misleading.

14. Movement AP display doesn't update after using All out offensive perk.

15. Movement AP display doesn't reflect standing from crouching AP cost for CC move+attack <- makes you think attack is possible when in fact isn't.

16. Seems the rare game freeze when going home happens to me the most often when I play longer session intensively. Suspecting memory management of Unity.

17. Kurt Renko and Elena: thought she killed him, but post battle debriefing said 0 enemies killed.

18. If you throw a fire grenade and it puts off an explosive barrel, this tile will be without fire (probably intended, so just mentioning)

19. Emilia (has all shotgun perks) with shotgun Artyom SG had battle freezes on Survivalist Raid while shooting 2x burst (note the name is '2x burst' not 'Double'). Once when incapacitating an enemy in the aoe, and once when hitting a fleeing one in OW.

20. Some potential text tidbits:
'Staggering blow' in the description of Concussive blow perk.
Shop owner: "Would have liked more in the when, but I can make this work"
Thermite scenario: "You said you was going to bring the tools"
Loading tooltip: "Smoke grenades provided additional protection from firesarms to characters standing in tiles covered by smoke."

Most of it really minor, some not sure if issues, only #20 causes a battle freeze and error.

 

[Timeslip]

Man, I feel so bad for playing so slow.
Haven't. Just the good rep ending at this point. Liked the way you tackled this, as far as one can say liked while feeling heavy. Unless it's necessary to answer right away, I'd like to play a new campaign from the start for the wholesome experience of the other one. Although a kind of more scared now.

Spoiler

When Sam talked about idealism, who did he meant - himself, gangs or something else?

Have always preferred endings which cause conflicted feelings, and to have a happy ending where Sam gets the girl and everything is great would ignore the terrible cost of a conscientious individual being involved in that much violence, regardless of the cause. It is necessary to answer right away - you have 10 minutes

Spoiler

It's about Sam's idealism - his desire to improve the situation in Reiker causing him to change the priority of his beliefs. The ideal of "not inflicting violence on others" is replaced with "not inflicting violence on others unless they are involved in a sustained attack on Reiker and its people". If you got the "good" ending, Sam hasn't fallen prey to fanaticism and adopted the belief that "crime should be punishable by death".

 

[Timeslip]

That's neat



Does it solve also ammo weight incorrections when (un)loading gun?

No, it will only affect item stacks.

Can list some potential issues encountered during the release playthrough below (haven't taken many notes though)

Spoiler

(hope not repeating much, tried to filter out what was already mentioned elsewhere)

1. Unable to upgrade two facilities in parallel. When you assign allies to both, only one will progress at the time.

2. Text of the Nobuki rifle upgrade says will be re-chambered to take high calibre rounds, but upgraded weapon still takes MCRs.

3. Persistent UI elements when you hit delay: aoes (shotgun, grenades), grenade cth, ap numbers, perk icons, status effects info, possibly other

4. Each delay turn lowers cooldown of perks. For example, delay by 3 positions is enough to activate berserker charge.
Edit: Just read that guys on steam discovered skipping a turn lowering a cooldown (glad this took them a while as it's obvious cheat). AFAIK, it's the same issue, but will leave it here just in case there's something else going on.

5. Even though have Tactical Delay perk, doesn't let me delay when there is no normal APs left (so can't use move APs later).

6. Ghost 2240 SCR ammo after pushing 'team reload' button (but that was in 1.00)

7. The gear icon on an item in the shop selling interface does nothing, prob. should be either grayed out or removed.

8. Auto-end-turn functionality not working when the last action is an activation of a perk, and some other actions, sorry forgot them.

9. Sam and allies that contribute in crafting/repair won't heal any HPs. (mentioning because in the past they did, and the healing rate tooltip still says so)

10. In v1.00 there was filled outline option for recheable tiles highlight and worked ok, now in v1.01 this shows only outline for me.

11. Some after battle screens (eg. interrogation) aren't well adjusted for 1920x1200 res, black stripes not filling the space entirely

12. Looting screen has some scrolling issues. For example, unable to scroll down when retrieved additional items from caches etc.

13. Movement AP display takes into account Firing Position perk, but IMO it shouldn't because as soon as you move the perk's effect isn't applicable <- misleading.

14. Movement AP display doesn't update after using All out offensive perk.

15. Movement AP display doesn't reflect standing from crouching AP cost for CC move+attack <- makes you think attack is possible when in fact isn't.

16. Seems the rare game freeze when going home happens to me the most often when I play longer session intensively. Suspecting memory management of Unity.

17. Kurt Renko and Elena: thought she killed him, but post battle debriefing said 0 enemies killed.

18. If you throw a fire grenade and it puts off an explosive barrel, this tile will be without fire (probably intended, so just mentioning)

19. Emilia (has all shotgun perks) with shotgun Artyom SG had battle freezes on Survivalist Raid while shooting 2x burst (note the name is '2x burst' not 'Double'). Once when incapacitating an enemy in the aoe, and once when hitting a fleeing one in OW.

20. Some potential text tidbits:
'Staggering blow' in the description of Concussive blow perk.
Shop owner: "Would have liked more in the when, but I can make this work"
Thermite scenario: "You said you was going to bring the tools"
Loading tooltip: "Smoke grenades provided additional protection from firesarms to characters standing in tiles covered by smoke."

Most of it really minor, some not sure if issues, only #20 causes a battle freeze and error.

Is that all?